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Discussion in 'Face Plant' started by Hookapelli, Dec 10, 2012.
NO WAY!!! What happens in the dirt stays in the dirt.
Sorry man.. I promised her I wouldn't. This one will have to stay hidden away with the other "special" videos.
I think that's where you would be mistaken. I have over 150,000 street miles on many bikes that I have been riding since I was 22. My current bike (GSX-R750) just recently turned over 50k this fall. I thouroughly enjoy riding solo and rarely ride pillion. I do understand where you're coming from however, as most of the rides that I am on or lead, I am usually the only woman. As Queenie stated, there are alot of us out there that truly ride for the enjoyment and fulfillment of it. Being that it's mid-December here in MN, I am going thru my normal yearly seasonal PMS (Parked Motorcycle Syndrome)
To the OP; I truly hope that your wife rides again either on her own or with you and get her confidence back. Perhaps a riding course where she could get build her confidence up would be helpful. Glad to hear that it wasn't worse than it was.
Using an anecdotic instance, yours moreover, to prove a point (or trying to prove someone wrong) especially when the guy said "most" and "rare" in his sentence isn't what I'd call a good argumentation.
But I too get where you're coming from and the rest of your post is more in line with the reality.
Bike's totaled..they're cutting me a check.
It was a cool bike.
Ah man...sorry. Thought about buying it back and fixing it??? How you're wife taking that news?
Sucks about the bike.
I do get a bit uppity about guys saying that women don't like to ride by themselves. I do a fair amount of riding with a partner, but today, I went out myself. The weather was too nice (read warm) to not go out, and the bike has been hibernating for two weeks, so why would I wait for him to get free of what he was doing? I wanted to ride, not hang out. Going out alone means that I ride whereever I want to ride, no discussion of routes or anything. Today, I had three-plus happy hours of looping around some new twisties and finding new ways to get to my favorite local stretch of highway. I did text him later and tell him I missed him on the ride, but kind of not really. I love riding my own ride ALONE.
I came home very happy.
Jesus. I just read almost every post in this entire thread and it's interesting the mix of responses.
Personally, I don't know that I would ever want my girlfriend/wife to ride solo. I've been on two wheels of all sorts for a long time, and I can fully appreciate the successful navigation of every unexpected pucker moment I've had, be it luck, training, experience, or whatever. Any one of them could have gone horribly wrong were any one minor detail slightly different. You can replay this crap in your head over and over again, as you should until you feel settled with it, because I think it adds to the knowledge/experience base. I also really appreciate when people share their crash experiences, because, again, more for the personal knowledge/experience base.
Anyway, back to the wife/girlfriend riding bit. I really gotta hand it to you guys who can "let" your wives/girlfriends ride and not be too worked up about it. I would be too worried the whole time, I think, especially if it's someone who just started riding. there are exceptions, I think. I think athletic people can pick stuff up faster. and, obviously, those who've been riding since youth clearly have an advantage. at any rate, yeah, proper gear, training, common sense, attitude, confidence, and alertness are huge in safe, fun rides.
lots of great feedback here.
anyway, glad to hear this one ended relatively benignly. bruised ego and shaken confidence may take a little longer to heal.
msg - you're heading toward cognitive dissonance there... On one hand, you're saying that women (or at least wives and GFs) shouldn't ride alöne because it scares you, and then you "like" the fact that I ride alone. I'm some guy's wife and the mom of two kids.
Is it just because I'm not your wife or GF that it's easier to like that I do what you would not want your own wife or GF to do?
if you'll note, I mentioned that I think there are exceptions, and commented about riding experience. from what I read, it sounded like you've got a lot of experience. but actually, back checking, it looks like I got you mixed up with another girl in this thread, haha, sorry. you all look the same to me
but anyway, all the same, mostly, I was liking this part specifically quoted below, because, as a rider, this is exactly the feeling I enjoy most about riding, and it's what I identified with in your post at the time I read it after reading a lot of posts about worry for female partners. and yeah, I just thought it was cool that you really seem to 'get it' and you're a girl. and yeah, since you're not my girlfriend/wife, I don't have anything vested in you. is it bad to appreciate and take notice of women riders who seem to have a healthy engagement in the spirit of riding that has us all hooked? I feel that it's less than common to see that, at least for me. So, this I like, yes, and this I would be more inclined to support were this type of rider close to me, as opposed to one of the women the other guys seem to be alluding to here who seem to ride just to be with their SO, not particularly for themselves, and who, furthermore, may not particularly have the ability to do so safely. let's face it, while everyone has the freedom to ride, some people just probably shouldn't, male and female alike. not that they can't learn, but to do so safely requires a certain amount of aptitude, coordination, and a responsible approach, and again, this goes for males and females alike. it's just that the subject of this post is a female crash.
you don't want for anyone to crash a bike, generally, but I don't particularly have anything vested in other guys' wives/girlfriends, so while I have my opinions, I'm not one to tell someone else what they should/shouldn't be doing, and I don't, typically.
re: the cognitive dissonance - perhaps, but I think it's more just that I can appreciate both sides of this discussion. not sure which I'd press for if my girlfriend/wife wanted to ride. I'd try to approach it openly, but if she were clumsy and accident prone, then probably no, I couldn't support that. as a legitimate safety concern. (and I'm not implying that the OP's wife is one of these types.) if my wife/girlfriend were athletic and/or had experience riding and weren't an adrenaline junkie, then I'd feel better, but even if she were a great rider, I would still worry.
does that clarify?
I have always done most of my riding by myself. When I learned to ride, my son who was in the USMC at the time, thought I was nuts. I asked him to look at his profession (of which I am immensely proud) and we could discuss this further. My son is very proud his Mom rides, and I've had more than one conversation with his buddies while they've been deployed when they find out I ride.
I personally know very few women who ride and even fewer of those women who will go off and ride without their husband. I didn't have that option, so it was me alone or not to ride. When I was dating someone, we rode together some of the time, did a few big trips together, but I still rode solo a lot. It was either that or sit back and wait for him to decide he wanted to ride. No thanks. I ride my own for a reason.
Yes, I've biffed it in gravel a couple of times, but that's just inexperience in gravel. I know I still have a lot to learn and I WANT TO LEARN everything I can to make me the best rider I possibly can be. I know my limits. I know when I can push those limits and when I'd better back off. I have no desire to be a statistic in tomorrow's paper. There isn't one person who rides who can't become a better rider in some aspect and that makes no difference whether you're on the track, the street, or getting dirty.
It surprises people when I pull into a gas stop and take off my helmet and it's a woman riding the bike. I've had many positive comments about my bike and the fact that I'm out there alone. There have also, sadly enough, been a couple negative comments about women riding. Oh well. They don't know how much fun we can be or how much fun we're having. Their loss, and I'm guessing they don't ride anyway so it's a mute point.
There are times I would enjoy having someone to ride with, but I'm perfectly willing to and capable of taking off for a day or two or ??? by myself.
I appreciate having people concerned about my safety and what not when I'm riding, but whether I'm riding my bike or if I'd have been out horseback riding by myself...alone is alone and things happen. It really doesn't matter whether you're a man or a woman.
I agree, and can fully relate to this. I think this is the kind of thinking all rolled up into safety awareness, and in the responsibility we all take on when we head out riding.
Katherine's response got me thinking this morning. I don't know if I'd ever not feel more concern for women riders than for the guys I ride with. not sure why or to what extent. this reminds me somewhat of discussions I've heard for women in combat situations alongside men. some men have voiced that they would feel distracted or preoccupied with the womens' safety. I'm sure a good bit of it is just upbringing, and being somewhat old fashioned and protective.
you have to admit - women are a minority in the riding community. so, why?
okay, here's an example.
one of my best friends, Kate. she's always hurting herself doing stupid stuff, so she's a little bit clumsy at times, but she's also athletic and coordinated when she's engaged.
she rides pillion with her boyfriend, also a friend of mine, and they love and thoroughly enjoy that riding relationship. he's a great rider, but is reckless at times and has had more than his share of crashes, though none with her on the bike. she wants a bike of her own.
I support her getting a bike because it's what she wants, and she wants to start off reasonably with a Ninja 250 or 300, and I think she can handle it if she approaches it properly. her boyfriend backs her, too. but yeah, I'm concerned for her safety.
what do you think about that situation?
I don't think I'm the best person to judge who is going to be a good rider or not. I focus on being the best rider I can be. I leave the determination of who is a good rider or not up to the professional instructors I know.
that's a cop out.
judgement is a strong word, and I'm not talking about determining who gets to ride and who doesn't. this discussion, my part of it anyway, is for grappling with the concern for those close to you.
I don't think so. You've noted that you would feel more comfortable with "more athletic" ladies versus "bumbling" ladies. You're already making judgments about their riding abilities. I'm saying that I don't get into whether they are a good rider or not, I am concerned about someone based on who they are, not what they are doing. Guys who are concerned about their wives or GFs riding should consider the reverse aspect and the impact it could have on themselves. ie - if wife or GF shouldn't ride alone because he is concerned about her, maybe he shouldn't ride alone either because she is concerned about him. It goes both ways.
I'm the wrong person to ask anyway. My risk threshhold doesn't track with most people's.
that's twice now that you've put words in my mouth. I did not use the word bumbling. please afford me the decency of not trying to skew my position by incorrectly restating it with your own words.
I've made no judgements about fat clumsy girls' riding abilities vs. those of hot, elite athletes with riding experience. but since you've brought it up, yes, I would be more concerned for the reaction times of a known clumsy person riding a motorcycle.
you've clearly rolled over the main point I was making in the beginning in which I was saying that I can see this from both sides, and not sure how I would respond were I one of the guys whose girlfriend or wife wanted a bike of her own. it seems that you've instead focused on what you've mistakenly taken as a wishy-washy position and perceived criticism and judgement against women riders, and probably women in general. and for what? because I said I'm not sure how I'd feel about a girlfriend or wife riding, talked a little about it, and then gave you a supportive thumbs up for saying, hey I'm a girl and here's an example of how I genuinely ride for myself? so what? I thought it was cool, interesting, refreshing and surprising for your post to come at the end of a thread I'd just read, which was full, mostly, of my own familiar position of worry/concern for women riders well being - nothing about their abilities - and it changed my mind a little.
and yes, agreed, I did think earlier this morning about the reverse aspect and it was something I never really much considered before. it's probably because it's easier to trust one's own assessment of his/her own abilities than it is to trust the judgement of a rider who is just starting out and all the other variables.
As for why more women don't ride, I can't answer that question. Maybe they're intimidated by the power of the bikes, safety issues (probably a big reason), their SO doesn't want them to ride, and so on. I only know why I ride and the i satisfaction I get from riding.
There are some people who are truly not meant to ride.. Whether they're just stupid enough to ride outside their limits or cannot physically handle the bike, it's just not meant to be. I watched a beginner MSF class one morning while my bike was being serviced. There was a gentleman taking the class who just could not get the feel of the bike...and this was a beginner class. He finally bailed 1/2 way through the class. He was devastated, but he realized it wasn't meant to be for him. Will he go back and try later? Who knows.
When I took my class, I had never ridden before and passed. There were three who did not, including a gal who had been riding for three years and who had ridden her Harley to the class from 120 miles away. Will she stop riding, probably not.
As a mother, I was very nervous when my son started talking about getting a bike after his last deployment. We talked at length about riding and bikes on numerous occasions. He finally decided he really wasn't sure he wanted to ride. Would I have been worried about him....oh hell yeah! What parent wouldn't be? A beginner rider and out in California...yikes!
I think it's great that women are riding, and I would encourage more women to at least try riding. How will they know if they don't at least try? It's wonderful if they have a good support crew to help them out as they learn to ask questions of and help them through when there are issues. Things are going to happen and some are much more serious such as the situation with Infidel's wife. Thank goodness she came out ok. She's got a loving husband who will help her work through her decision to ride/not ride. The end decision needs to be totally hers, though.
There is nothing wrong with a man being protective and old fashioned. In this day and age, it's nice to know there are guys still out there like that.
She should look into a school that will teach her the basics and allow for both on and off the bike instruction. From there, riding with an experienced rider(s) that will allow her to feel comfortable going whatever speed she is comfortable with is important. Since she is accustomed to riding with her boyfriend as a pillion, she will have a bit of an advantage over a rider who has no experience at all. The key to all of this is having situation awareness and some common sense. If she's feeling nervous and is feeling uncomfortable with the speed of a particular ride she is on, she needs to be able to slow down and ride her own ride and not feel like she needs to keep up. If she is with a good group leader, they will respect that and accomodate her needs, slow down and let her have an enjoyable experience. I have ridden with many new riders (both men and women) and enjoy this learning experience with them. Since I benefited from many other experienced riders as I was gaining my own experience and riding style as a new rider, I feel it's only right to give back and teach others.
Participating in some additional riding classes will also help benefit her. Depending on where she is located, she should be able to participate in some trackdays where she can learn valuable skills including throttle control, braking skills, countersteering, etc.
I wish her the best!