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Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by sakurama, Oct 4, 2012.
Maybe so I could have a cool bike to go get things for my 990.(need to add yes and keeping 990/950)
+1 for disappointed. There are lots of bikes on the market with adventuresque looks. Why compete with that? I think KTM should stick with awesome off-road and and reasonable on road ability.
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I like the more street friendly features on the 1190 for my type riding. Seems the 690 is a better choice for off road and currently lots of aftermarket parts to make it even better. I have dumped a ton of money into the 2007 picked used and it is finally ok. It still does not have perfect fueling and my ZX-14 has always ran smoother and been 100%. The extra power of the 1190 is good for the street and the 17/19 tires will work. I think KTM has some strong points but has taken way to long to correct issues on the bikes. Not sure what my next move is, hopefully test ride a 1190, new GS 1200, and Mult 1200, and Super Ten. I want a street bike that can blow down gravel and dirt roads, not rattle my teeth out on rough roads, keep up with FJR's, and not break down or require thousands of dollars to make it preform!
Most of you guys have had great luck with your KTM's but I am just not in love with my bike.
Even ridden one of those on the street? My Husaberg 570 is a lot smoother....
Will likely get a non-R but only after they've been in production for 1-2 years and if there isn't a replacement SMT by then :)
Still don't like the idea of the exhaust placement though, but a demo ride will knock that on it's head I would imagine...
Yeah, that's very true. But the lower weight rules off road. If you're on road why not have hp where's there's traction to use it?
I get what people want but it seems a stretch. A friend of mine is building a V-4 600cc engine for MotoGP and the target is 150hp and 300lbs. The engine is almost finished and is quite compact and he has a thread going here but he's pretty much paying for it himself so progress is slow. I'd like to get an engine from him and build an adventure bike around it and it would be more than anyone is asking - 350lbs and 120hp but it would probably cost what a Motus does and we've already seen (from that thread) that no one wants to pay that.
Big manufactures won't build for a small niche and small builders who do have to charge a lot more since there's no economy of scale. And people will bitch either way.
I fully agree that a lighter bike is more important than a more powerful bike - light weight is beneficial everywhere whereas power is only useful 20-30% of the time if that. Unfortunately we're in the middle of a horsepower war as it seems that's what people are buying.
I got no answer other than to ride a small bike off road and accept the compromise the 1190 offers.
I have the original concept photos of the 950 Adventure as they were released in Cycle World.... in 2000. Now, that's nearly 5 years before I was able to buy my '04 950 S from the dealer. The original Kiska design was more street oriented then what Meoni helped champion as a "Desert Rally" bike. The big LC8 twin motor was created to introduce KTM into the large street bike category. Without the Dakar participation, who really knows what the original Adventure would have looked like. Thank god someone supported the dirt oriented iterations of the Adventure back then... to give us all the Adventure and SE's.
I was fortunate to speak with Tyler ( KTM tech) at the Bend Rally while standing around my '04 S. I was mentioning how cool it would be to own an original 950 RR ( my bike being the production replica of such). Tyler said he had the luxury of riding an actual 950 RR one summer, which was raced by Paul Krause in the Dakar. Tyler said the 950 RR was easily 70 lbs. heavier then the stock 950 S with all of it's additional bracketry for the front navigation gear, the bracketry supporting the rear tanks, the rear tanks themselves... and the fuel in the rear tanks. And all the added weight made the bike much more top heavy then the stock 950 S / 990 R. I now appreciate the stock Adventure and SE so much more.
KTM probably "had" to make the 1190 because it was just getting burned by the press when comparing the 990 to the GS12 and S10. KTM is not "making" the new 1190 for any of us who really like the Adventure. It's trying to gain International acceptance as manufacturing the best "Big" Adventure bike of that category.
Like I've said many times before ( to deaf ears)... The current KTM Adventure was a mid sized adventure bike at the time. In 2004, KTM could have put a 750cc motor in the Adventure frame and it would have been a success. It would have been a hightech version of the Africa Twin, and considered revolutionary. And it would have won Dakar with Meoni and Sainct as factory riders. KTM went with 950cc's probably because they didn't have the money to make multiple large twin motors between dirt and street. I'm sure if Meoni could have had a 750 twin that was slightly lighter, he would have gone with it.
But for all intents and purposes... KTM is a small dirt bike company, with a small dirt bike company mentality. Things tend to move very slow for them. It took a very long time for the LC8 to get where it is today.
Yes... I think KTM will eventually come out with a smaller, lightweight twin Adventure. But if they were to show concept photos today... it would probably be another 5 years before it makes production ( just like the original Adventure). That's just KTM, late to the game... but first to the finish.
I'm sticking with my '04 950 S as my adventure bike until a lighter KTM V Twin comes out... or Honda re-releases a bad ass version of the Africa Twin. Either way, I'm good for now... very, very good.
( Great to meet you at the Bend Rally... love your build thread too)
You too. Thanks, but it seems like it will never end. :eek1 Almost done now.
It makes me even more in awe of the guys that rode those big Dakar bikes. I watched ever minute of those races and was just blow away then and now. They were super heroes.
Back in 04 when I got my bike I did lots of silly stuff with it. It's amazing what it would do. Now though I tend to spend more of my time on pavement with my 17/19 wheels and only do dirt roads and double track with the bigger wheels. That seems to be how a lot of people I know evolve with the bikes so the new bike makes sense for how I ride now. I'd buy the R version though and then I'd do a second set of wheels. At least that's what I think today.
According the dutch importer there is not going to be made another SM & SMT, there no plans.
the adv "road" version is going to replace them both.
That would be a shame, the SM bikes are not adventure bikes...the wheel sizes alone make them differ, even from the non-R...
I have now heard that a 1190 SMT will and wont exist...all of it is just hearsay and not reliable I'd say
The new KTM will be my first choice when I get ready for a new (or newer as I’ll probably wait for a used one) big adventure bike. For now I’ll keep my 950A as my “big” adventure touring bike. I would, right now, buy a Ténéré 660, if only—or a KTM 690 Adventure, if only.
I voted a couple of days ago but held off from posting because at the time I thought both the GS and the KTM made me want to vomit.
Now that I've had time to look and study them both, I'm still keeping my 990. That being said, if it ever blows up, I might wind up with the GS. *shock horror*
Here's the thing for me: I love my KTM. Man I love it. I've never had a bike that does everything that it does so well. Race sport bikes over at Deal's Gap, put on the 19/17. Hammer down double track and logging roads, 21/18 wheels. And I've fixed the headlights the way I like them, put on the bigger gas tanks so now I can ride for an hour without getting fuel, ripped of that stupid ABS (ABS is good, but KTM didn't pull it off well), got the mapping fixed. This bike is like a battle buddy. But........
You can't work on the damn thing without taking half of it apart. I'm looking forward to a sub 1 hour oil change now that I have my hose installed. Have to check the valves? 3 cases of beer and a day or two later and you're done. Young James (rode with Radioman in SA for a while) checked his GS valves in a parking lot and had someone hold his beer until he finished. God forbid I drown the KTM in a river crossing (damn near did once, whisky throttle to the rescue), I'd have to set up camp, take off both tanks, drain the radiator, drain the oil tank, JUST to get to the plugs. Ewan, when he drowned his GS in Siberia, pulled the plugs, thumbed the starter a couple of times to blow out the water, put the plugs back in, and was done in about 10 minutes.
I still like that I can work on my 990 without having to have a degree in computer science like I imagine a GS would be like. But cruise control, fly by wire throttle, power adjustable windscreen, the BMW dealer network... I can dig it. The Boxer engine has ridden from Afrika Corps all over the world. Not crazy about the water cooled valves, but I'd imagine that there's some kind of limp mode where the bike will still run in case the radiator goes to pot. My 21/18 wheels have been sitting in my garage since the ADV Rendezvous in May.
The 9*0 series was designed to dominate the Dakar and be worked on by a team of mechanics at night, and I love it for that. But I think the GS will be a better travel bike, for me, when the time comes.
Then I get to turn the 990 into a proper rally bike.
Edit: Just looked at the new GS again. Nope. Want to puke. When my 990 blows up I'll wind up with a 2012 GSA.
It was awesome meeting both you guys in bend. Hey Gregor I owe you and your buddy a beer lol thanks for the drink during the ktm games.
I really can't see the need for more HP the 990 does an awesome job as is it did everything I asked on the trip and more. I had a 640 adv and to me it was a turd that would rattle your brain and the 690 I test road was unimpressive to say the least
If they do make a mid size twin adv I'll be first inline but I don't see thy happening anytime soon if ever so for now the 990adv stays
I'm with STOOOOPID
Wow, didn't see that coming from you!
You might be a candidate for a used HP2 Enduro. My friend Gino owned one and I loved it. He had it so set up then rode my bike and bought a 990. Still wished he'd kept it as its so special. I've owned a lot of BMW's and it true what you say about how easy they are to work on. I just bought another (R1200S) as I missed having one. I love it but you might miss the power - it's something KTM does really well and BMW not so much (in twins).
Bmw- Easier to work on and need less work. KTM - harder to work on and needs more work. For me the hooligan nature of the KTM overrides any logic though.
Really? Then you haven't taken into consideration the resistance for change that most people are prone to...
I probably won't be picking the new one up, but not because it's not a great bike. It's more because I want to get a sport touring bike next but want to keep an Adventure Tourer in the stable and can't afford to buy both a K1600GT and a new 1190.
Maybe down the road a bit.
Yeah that is true. The only BMW I've ridden has been my dads R1200RT and I loved it, but it was sort of weak on power. I thought it was due to the weight of the bike but if it's just the 1200 motor that's weak then I'll stay orange.
It does do everything I ask of it, I know how to maintain it, and there is no comparison offroad.
Offroad...man I miss having miles of dirt 15 minutes from the house.