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Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by veloce, Jul 6, 2011.
If I had my druthers it would be the TAT to the CDR to the TCAT back home
Interesting to me about all the arguing...I long to see ANY DS bike in my neck of the woods. Big twins, touring rigs, and sport bikes make up 95% of the bikes I pass on a daily basis. I whoop and wave if I see anything remotely close to a dual sport...no matter what brand, age, or size.
Saw a guy on a V-Strom recently negotiating rush-hour traffic standing up. I happened to be stuck in a cage. All I could do is yell "Yeahhh...Show 'em how it's done, Boy!" Everyone around me at the stoplight though I was nuts.
I bet an 800gs would do that better than an 800xc
But consider this
I was quite pleased with my F8 on the TransLab. I'm sure the Triumph would have done just as well, but I like the low rpm pulling power of the BMW. The XC I test rode didn't quite have that, but I've never ridden it off-road so hard to say. Here's me at the "end"....Manic5.
Have anyone compared how much does it cost for maintenance 800Xc vs F800GS?
The only information I could find was this article
where 800XC = $784 and F800GS = $416
Could anyone confirm it?
The BMW number looks correct if a valve clearance check is included. It makes sense that the Triumph is more. 4 more valves to check. For the BMW find TDC, check 1 cylinder, rotate 360 and do the other.
For a Triumph, the crank has to be be rotated 2 times to check all 3 cylinders. The Triumph has shim under bucket. Remove the cams then the bucket to get to them. It is just more labor intensive.
As far as moto mag evaluations, that one is the best. More data and some explanation as to why. Mostly because I agree with it.
A couple of errors. No knock sensor on the BMW. Valve checks at 20,000 km not miles. All the rest is true. It does have a low rpm abrupt throttle. $250 will buy you a Throttle tamer and a fuel module and no more problem.
Compare the frame geometry. One is found on every street bike and the other on most dirt bikes. It works for Triumph because the front rim is the same width as a 19". Wide rim and more front weight keeps it stable.
Works on the street and the dirt until you ride some deep sand or loose deep gravel.
That triple is great for pavement. Above 8,000rpm it makes more power. Just like a street bike. Triumph did a great job with the torque curve. The problem is a triple has a power stroke for every 240degress of 1 engine rotation while the BMW has 1 every revolution(360degrees).
In the loose stuff the further the power strokes are from one another the better chance the rear wheel hooks up. That is why most dual sports and dirt bikes have single cylinder engines. They do it better with 1 for 2. I know the mag say you can overcome this by gearing up. True enough, but I have been where my bike won't pull the hill in 2nd gear at the speed required.
The reason I like my BMW is I like the dirt side of it. I do not ride dirt at 8,000 rpm and it has more than enough power. For a 500lb bike it just handles dirt better and the ergonomics is set up for that. On pavement I give Triumph their due. The reality is, its dirt manners are fine for where most "Adventure" riders are likely to ride.
I also know that if I wanted to make the BMW even dirtier all it takes is quality suspension and remove some weight. Expensive but possible.
I do not see much improvement for a Triumph. It still has street geomatry and a motor that makes great power but would require an expert rider to get it to the ground.
Arguing with a Triumph owner is like arguing religion or politics, they believe what they believe, damn the facts.
yeap.... the Tigers tank makes the bike feel big... sitting on it feel like I am riding the tank. The under the seat tank is a great design (f800gs that is)
I've ridden the 800XC maybe 100 miles and own a 2009 F8GS with 21,000 miles on it at present, maybe 60% dirt/gravel. I agree with your assessment of both bikes.
As a relative dirt newb I have been pretty satisfied with the F8GS. I've ridden the Translab and many forest service roads in North Georgia and Colorado the most challenging of which was Hagerman Pass. At my level, I like the suspension and am not sure I would want or could use something better. But then, what do I know. So....what specifically would you do to improve the suspension of the F8GS? I'm coming up on the 24,000 mile service and expect to service the suspension as well. Thanks.
I can just tell you what I did. I think the suspension is soft for normal humans. The compression damping is/was too harsh.
A lot of what I ride is hard pack with a dose of gravel. Most of the roads are over granite. Hitting a protruding rock or a hole where one used to live, just beat me to death. The spring compressed quickly but the cartridge tube just froze it up. In other locations where the roads/trails were soft dirt, free of rocks and consisted of a lot of whoops it was fine. There was time for the valving to react.
First I resprung the bike. Several times. Eventually I just bit the bullet and changed out the front cartridge tube. It is mostly a front end problem, but if you just change that, the bike gets a pogo effect and you begin to notice how much better the front is over the rear.
An added benefit for a respring if you are in the 180+ class is the positive effect on pavement. It will sharpen up the handling. Might even make the TKC wobbles go away.
Thank you for your input.
Have a buddy that recently took his Tiger to Colorado. Has major issues at high altitude. Stopped running. Dealer thinks a mapping issue... However, he wad running with a F800GS and it had no Probs.
we have been on both bikes and with the Tiger it's a more comfortable ride as you sit into the bike rather on the bike...what I mean is the seat set up on the Tigers is more like a touring seat and position rather than a dirt bike like the BMW F650GS and 800GS. All depends on how you want to ride and where. The GS is better on more technical off road stuff in our opinion than the Tigers but the Tiger took us to Alaska and back and we hit every "bad" road there is up there and it did fine. WE had the stalling issue last summer and when we got back 10 days post Alaska there was the world wide recall.
Simply cannot base a rounded opinion based on a buddies experience. Issues do arise with any machine.
Live not to far from you and spend most of the time in the Ozarks. I have had my Tiger.....with other GS's....on tours out west a few times with no problems. First trip last summer was with the standard tune and pipe. Absolutely no problems. Last week I returned from Salt Lake via Steamboat to Salida with Leo pipe and Arrow tune. Again, no problems.
You buddy must have had a mapping issue or an issue with the stepper motor. The dealer should be able to get that resolved.
This is not to say that the bike doesn't have problems. Every bike has problems including the GS. That is not debatable.
I can tell you that if you love going off road the 21" front wheels on the available adventure bikes is worth it.
For me The F800GS or 990 Adventure are the best two options with best ground clearance and off road handling in the category.
I have a friend, who's friend, who's friend, has problems with his tiger. (sorry i couldn't resist)
I was just in colorado, wyoming, montana, the dokotas.... on my tiger and another one. no problems.
I wrestled with this very same decision not more than a few weeks ago.
In the end, I went with whatever better deal came along first - which happened to be a 2009 BMW F800GS.
I have zero regrets.
That being said, had I bought the Tiger, I probably would also have zero regrets.
By all accounts these bikes are very similar - picking the better one is an exercise in splitting hairs.
Get whichever you get a better deal on is my advice.
I did all the reseach on the Tiger and had made my mind up that that was the bike for me. Everyone said that after a test ride you will buy one. I organised a test ride on the XC and off I went to the dealer. Coming from a DR650 my intial impression was wow this is big in comparison, the front of the bike seemed so far away compared with the DR.
I was impressed with the power over the single pot I'd been used to but I must say I did not get the exitement feeling I was expecting from what all that I had read. The whistling engine note was also not really my cup of tree, although I know plenty of people love the unique Triumph Triple note.
I rode back to the dealer and told him my impressions, he said why not take the demo F650 out for a spin to compare, I was reluctant at first as I really had my heart set on the Tiger, but what the hell I thought.
As soon as I set off on the F650 I felt more "at home" and was flicking it between lanes in busy city traffic in no time, It also sounded better to me and even my missus said that sounds more like it when I dropped by the house as I had done half an hour earlier on the Tiger.
On returning to the dealer I was still disapointed that I had not took to the Tiger as I thought I would have done but then started to question the dealer on which he thought was the best bike of the two. He sold both so did not knock either of them but just said....... Look it comes down to personal choice and everyone is different in their taste and requirements etc. If we were all the same then they would just make one bike that suits everyone and that would be it.
I thought about this and for me the F650 did definately feel more of a fit for me, I would have liked to take a non XC Tiger out ot compare but it was not an option so I went away to think about. I ordered an F700GS three weeks later and await its arrival.
Very well put.
it seems as though triumph took a long look at the best bike in this class , BMW's gs800, found its points that needed to be addressed and built the same bike without the issues. I am trying to decided between the two, wish the xc had a little more time under its belt, but all in all after extensive research , I think I will buy the feline. as the brit's say--- that tripple is like a peach.