Yamaha TENERE 700 Thread

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by VTbeemer, Apr 7, 2017.

  1. PaydayGabe

    PaydayGabe Semi Retired Senior bike junkie

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    I agree, , if if if. Hope Yamaha sends the T7 our way but I'm not holding my breath:nah.
    So much speculation/anticipation it's getting old. Get this, , checked w/my local dealer recently and they were clueless :fpalm. No idea what so ever. Never even heard of the concept bike. Like, Really! !
    I'll believe it when I see it on these shores.
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  2. Harry Potter

    Harry Potter Been here awhile

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    So what if Yamaha's only new bike is the XSR700 and no T7/XTZ700? Multiple Yamaha dealership owners have told me they don't see a T7 happening. I'm really not excited with my 1200GS any more. Not an orange bike fan. It seems it would be easy for Suzuki to kick up the DR650 but that's not going to happen. So what bikes do you guys have as backup plans?
  3. GhettoCanuck

    GhettoCanuck Been here awhile

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    Word on the street is the tenere 700 is very likely to be revealed in November at EICMA. The general consensus is that it would hit showrooms sometime in February as a 2018 model.

    Suzuki won't do much with the DR unfortunately, for the same reason as Honda with the XR, and Kawasaki with the KLR. Those bikes have paid for their production cost many times over, and they still do a brisk business with these "modern dinosaurs." If they were to revamp the DR, (with FI and a six speed oh my!) it would need to pass rigorous emissions tests that it currently gets around by being a 20 year old model.

    As for competition for the mythical T7, I think we will see great movements in this class coming soon from KTM and BMW. Perhaps a more dirt worthy vstrom 650. Then there's the 701 from Husky, fabled to be very smooth, but still a single. I would expect a revamped Tiger 800 as well.
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  4. Dillo

    Dillo All bark, no bite

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    Suzuki just updated the strom last year so I wouldn't hold your breath there. KTM and BMW both have new bikes on the horizon. The replacement for the F800GS was spotted in what looked like full production trim last month so that will probably go on sale as a 2019 model as they've already announced the 2018 GS and it's just bold new graphics. The KTM has been spotted in prototype form several times over the last two years so we'll see what happens in November. The 701 with a rally kit is a great choice, and there are several people taking them around the world right now. And a revamped Tiger was just spotted earlier this year.
  5. GhettoCanuck

    GhettoCanuck Been here awhile

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    Its unfortunate that Suzuki has had their head in the sand recently. A bike like the one pictured below would be relatively easy for them to make, it looks like half of it is DR650 stock parts.[​IMG]
  6. Dillo

    Dillo All bark, no bite

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    This thread has had page after page of people bitching about the center of gravity and ground clearance of the FZ07 motor and you think a vstrom will be any better? The high COG and low clearance on that bike are practically it's defining traits.
  7. GhettoCanuck

    GhettoCanuck Been here awhile

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    I think all these armchair engineers would do just fine with a bike like that if no one told them it had a high centre of gravity. A different tank that holds fuel lower in the shrouds can also work wonders on COG.
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  8. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    Commenting and measuring is not bitching, it wouldn't be that hard for Suzuki to get the Vagina Storm's CG lower then the *07 power plant as it already plants three of the largest masses lower in the frame then the *07 engine on any of the bikes it's bolted to including the concept bike.

    Some of us are Engineers, and yes, there are certainly riders both new and inexperienced that will be interested in a bike like this that they wouldn't be able to discern shit from shineola -- it looks like Yamaha is counting on it...

    Unfortunately it doesn't come with a different tank, and lower in the shrouds with the *07 power-plant and turnkey radiator would mean an engine, fuel tank, and radiator setup that's already very wide would be... Really something...
  9. GhettoCanuck

    GhettoCanuck Been here awhile

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    Very well said. The COG sure seems to be a point of contention on bikes like these, because you need to trade ground clearance for a low centre of gravity, and vice versa. It's all about striking the right balance.

    As for a different tank, thats what the aftermarket is for. Where there's a will, there's a way.
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  10. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    Well, not for me but I think a lot of people here are looking at the T7 to be 'the next thing ' in a lighter middle-weight bike with impressive power:weight that's more dirt capable then say an Apricot Twin, easier to get up when dumped then one of the 'Big ADV ' bikes I ride, and costs less then a Fisher-Price toy...

    While most of this is possible -- the compromises for something as complex, costly, and heavy as a twin to get to any one of these get into disappointing territory pretty fast -- and really ugly corner case when people's expectations go for more then one core competence from the bike. Under 400lbs and over 100 HP come on!?

    Look no further then the CRF1000L for some of the corners that got cut that made a lot of people very unhappy just to make the bike as many things to as many as possible: heavy and top heavy, ghetto fork that has to be re-anodized, cable actuated clutch, tube tires, disappointing OEM pannier system, small fuel capacity, and it apparently doesn't doesn't deliver on the expectation of 'Honda reliable' in general for a lot that bought the thing...

    Sure, and someone might come up with a brilliant plastic replacement and sub seat tank that not only weighs less, holds more fuel and holds it lower on the bike. But it won't happen tomorrow, won't be cheap, and only solves one problem. Super Ténéré owners (like me) have been waiting seven years for such an offering -- and even though the bike has sold well, it's still a no show...
  11. paquo

    paquo Been here awhile

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    Definitely but isnt its saving grace the fact that it is not top heavy due to its ptwin and its low placement.
  12. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    IDK, I rode it and it was alright, but the CG didn't feel that low to me and this is something apparently some that bought the thing are not happy with. My personal feeling is that both reactions are over-reactions, it's ok for what it is, not terrible but certainly not great either, the laws of physics and basic economics just don't make the lauds or pans reasonable... Soon enough we'll know...
  13. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

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    Very interesting discussion about COG on adv bikes. Now... didn't we have a discussion on this already?

    My recommendation for the ones fearing high COG on motorcycles:

    1. Quit riding adv bikes. They all have a high center of gravity.
    2. Get an adv riding class.
    3. Quit whining.

    All in jest my friends, all in jest...

    Please carry on with this nice COG discussion.
    Jeremy K and outbacktm like this.
  14. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    Haven't read anything by anyone suggesting or implying fear...

    No they don't, but they may have a high static CG...

    You're welcome to sign up for my class anytime...

    That's my cardan final drive you're hearing, no one here is whining -- but there are quite a few pining for a magic unicorn unbound by physics, economics, and even what Yamaha is capable of doing...
  15. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

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    If I were fishing I would have caught the first one... :D It didn't take long. :lol3 But of course, I was not on a fishing expedition... :rofl

    Semi-serious mode:

    I would like for the whiners to give me data, information, about this. I'm an engineer and an economist, and I'm not interested in formulas... I want real data and information, three things that will make me understand what is really the problem with the T7 so I can make a good ol' data-based decision when the time comes:

    1. Whiners, please give me the wet weight of the Tenere 700 (or T7), then give me its weight at the handle bars when it is laying down and the front wheel is pointing to the same direction as the rear wheel (just for consistency sakes), then at every 10 degrees (as in an arc as you raise the bike) until it is vertical. I want the absolute number and the weight as percentage of the bike's wet weight (ready to ride). You can do both sides, of course. They may be different.

    2. Next, I would like the whiners to give me the same data set for all other adventure (multi-cylinder) motorcycles. It will help me with my decision to know what are the other options. I can see a nice and simple excel spreadsheet with this information. On the column to the left the motorcycles and on the first column to the right its wet weight, and then the weight at all the different angles until it is down on the ground. It would help most of us, certainly.

    3. Finally, I'm really curious, I want to know what is the experience COG whiners feel when they ride a motorcycle, how does the so called "high center of gravity" bothers them. At what circumstances, when they are riding, it bothers them. Please let us know. Maybe we can help?

    Cheers mates, just kidding of course (especially the last one, but I confess, it will be really good information to know).

    Serious point:

    Now being real, it is all about having fun when we ride our motorcycles. Right? In my opinion one of the most fun aspects about riding, it is one of the things that makes riding interesting to me, is that motorcycles do need a side or center stand to stay up when on their own, but when we get them in motion that issue is never in our minds. Or never in my mind. So don't take my word for it. If anyone is interested in knowing more about one interesting perspective about this, there is an interesting book by a guy called Steven Thompson, called Bodies in Motion. He failed, in my opinion, to actually organize all the rich information he provided into one seamless conclusion. But he offers interesting perspectives to why riding motorcycles is practically inherent to human kind, like second nature (point in case we ride, some of us ride, without knowing we counter-steer, for example, and that it works on all circumstances, including when we "weigh the pegs" that it actually helps us counter-steer -as we weight the right peg, for example, we instinctively push the right handlebar to maintain our balance). An interesting note about this book is the foreword by Andy Goldfine (of Aerostich) who provides more of a conclusion about "bodies in motion" than the author himself. It is worth a read, for all the different information it provides.

    Kidding again (well... semi kidding):

    If COG bothers riders, some people do suffer from balance issues (as an example my father has a Parkinson's related illness and balance is a real issue for him) they really should consider getting one of those nice Can-am Spyders. I hear they are great machines. I may need one of those machines one day, genetics play a role on this disease.

    But until them, I'm enjoying high COG adventure motorcycles (I have four of them, tall high COG machines, BTW).

    And I'm always interested in learning more about riding. If we don't change our minds, we do not allow ourselves to learn and evolve, that's where the data on my three questions come into play.

    Cheers!
  16. Cruz

    Cruz Lost but laughing.

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    Just as it is fine for you and others does not mean it isnt a pain in the arse for some also.
    It isnt the picking up of the bike so much as the stopping it falling over in the first place. Nothing worse than dropping a bike when stopped or nearly stopped but never when actually riding.
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  17. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    I don't think there are any 'whiners' here, so I don't expect an answer... You have some onerous gaping holes in your knowledge for someone that claims to be an Engineer and an Economist but is 'not interested in formulas', and awful high expectations from people you insult to indulge you...
  18. Dutch idiot

    Dutch idiot Crazy, not stupid

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    Oh boy, here we go again ...

    :lurk
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  19. paquo

    paquo Been here awhile

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    People think the 950 superenduro is god's gift, with used prices absurdly about the same as new. I had one and i liked it, it was amazing for back roads with broken pavement and dirt roads and it was the only big bike i could ride in deep sand. The thing is its weight was really high and on a normal dirt bike you have plenty of time to correct and bring it back to balance, with the se once it leaned just a little too far there was no way to stop it. The other thing is riding around on pavement my transalp that has similar sized wheels and about the same weight just rails the turns with much easier transition, you sit lower, the bike is not as tall, it has a lower c of g. KTM has the potential to make a winner with the 800 with the low p twin and a tank carrying the fuel low, of course it will be more expensive and might have sketchy reliability.
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  20. Lion BR

    Lion BR I'd rather be riding

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    I know a formula to calculate CoG on motorcycles and bicycles. By the way it is a very complex data collection process - the calculation is simple once you have the data. Go here for the formula. I just gave you the most seat of the pants data collection and calculation method on my previous email, let's call my method the arc-haic method instead of the arc sin method... :D I just wanted the data that, in the end, really matters to us - or to me, which is the weight to pick it up from the ground - I want to know whether I can pick it up from the ground when riding on my own.

    Also, I want to know if it only really matters when the bike is stopped, right? Or going really slow? That's why I did ask question #3, what really does it for you or others (and paquo responded, thank you!). That's why I'm not only interested in the actual data, but also on the experiential data, what matters on the trail and on the road which actually changes from rider to rider (how tall they are, and how good a rider they are).

    I want to learn, like I mentioned. I was not kidding, but sometimes I need to laugh a bit, okay, smile. I do want to know more and you seem to be into something. But I know you don't have the data on the T7, that's why you will not respond to my question 1, right? Otherwise I'm sure you would try to prove your point?

    And to questions 2 and 3, we all hear the Africa Twin has a low center of gravity and you just said it is not quite like that, right? I appreciate your take on it. And that's all I wanted to say, this is a futile exercise at this point, because different people, in the end will say something different no matter what and no matter how much data is available. I find it interesting when people (not talking about you, people in general) jump on a heavy motorcycle, for example, and then they say, it is heavy but once it gets going you don't feel the weight. Well, what with tall and wide handlebars... :D and for being in motion... etc.

    So I say, let's see and ride the bike once it's out, then we can talk some more about center of gravity.

    And I do recommend people (not you, anyone) take a read at the book called Bodies in Motion (Steven Thompson). It was material the author was using for his PhD dissertation, but he never completed it. Instead, we have the book.

    Cheers mate!