Yet Another GS Adventure Touring Sidecar (Totally Hacked!)

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by mikepa, Apr 2, 2008.

  1. mikepa

    mikepa SideCzarist

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    Hey "RedMenace" -

    Sorry I missed the Bunny BBQ, things have been a bit hectic around here recently.

    Called me spolied, or call me a beeaatch, but in Sep and Oct, I'll be doing my final tour for the year, in IndoChina....

    One of these days. . . .

    Later,
    #41
  2. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Granite Falls, Washington State, USA
    Howdy All,

    I made a big bobo,

    the "Black Dog" is June 7-8th.

    the "Dirty Face" is June 14th.

    I have edited my first post to reflect this, sorry for any confusion my mistake may have caused.
    #42
  3. RedMenace

    RedMenace Adventure Sidecar

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    That's cool. How's 'bout sometime when you aren't touring and i'm not teaching we get together and tear up the hill country?
    #43
  4. mikepa

    mikepa SideCzarist

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    Hey Greg,

    OK, finally got some fotos to answer your question about trail, and took a few more to show the rigging in the process.



    [​IMG]

    Little busy around the front end, but here is a foto of the machined lower fork brace that Dauntless fabricated. Two things are being accomplished with this.

    Like the lower brace on my R1200GS/EZS rig, the centerline distance between the TeleLever pivot stud and the bores for the fork tubes has been increased over the OEM part. This effectively increases the fork rake, which counter-intuitively reduces the fork trail, which in turns reduces the steering effort in a turn. However, kicking that front wheel further out also lowers the height or stance at the front end, which reduces available ground clearance.

    Unlike the lower fork brace on my R1200GS/EZS rig, Dauntless did the other right thing. They made the brace "taller" to make up for the loss in height, and this pretty much maintains the stock ground clearance. Even without being painted, it looks as good as the stock brace.



    [​IMG]

    Leaning over the seat from the left side of the tug, here's a downshot on the rigging. You can sort of make out the twin brake pedal arrangement, the stock one barely peeking out from the seat, the tub's pedal above (and in black). The tub's brake system it totally isloated and independent from the tug's, so no incredibly costly brake system flushes and diagnostic tests are required from the local dealer to rig or de-rig the tub. You can see the master cylinder and reservior in the right-hand, middle.

    Rocks kicked-up from off-roading really chip the paint on all the rigging, so I've made a habit of wrapping as many of the struts as I can with the neoprene pipe insulation available any any Home Depot-type megabox. The edges actually seal against one another, and tie wraps do the rest.



    [​IMG]

    There's some pretty beefy tow hooks front and rear on the main backbone, for either towing or recovery.



    [​IMG]

    Here's a shot, front to rear, of the backbone. At first, all the clamps and fasteners seemed a bit much. My other rig is all neatly welded. On the other hand, my other rig has suffered fractures, as weld don't give (much), but clamps can, and also spread the load over a much longer and larger area. Four bolts and one electrical connector and the tub can be de-rigged from the bike. It literally takes about 5 minutes.

    Hope that answers your question!

    Best,
    #44
  5. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile

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    At one point I was considering Jay’s lower bridge but I went another way and have used the Dedome mod to ease the steering effort on my R1100GS rig.http://www.dedome.com/

    How to reduce the trail on the bmw with telelever without changing the angle of the fork and of course without dropping the front stock height!!. To do so, the steering angle must be straight up; this angle is the line between the bearing bolt located in the upper fork brace and the ball joint in the lower bridge. To change this line, once again without changing the angle of the fork, the ball joint must be relocated. To achieve this trail reduction, Dedome manufactures a new longer lower bridge and in the same time, to straight up the steering angle, he also changes the location for the ball joint on the A arm (telelever), shortening the A arm (cut and re-welded) to the same distance he has lengthen the new lower bridge (about ¾ inch). In other words, this pivot will move backward, and the trail is then reduced. The result is very convincing; the steering effort is much less. In my opinion the engineering is great and smart (does not change the look of the bike), and the finish is awesome, a real piece of art!

    Here a couple pictures.

    The work on the telelever, cut about 3/4 inch and re-welded.
    [​IMG]

    The same telelever, who can notice the weld on it?
    [​IMG]

    The new lower bridge
    [​IMG]

    The same lower bridge.
    [​IMG]

    The 2 bridges side by side, you can see the relocation of the pivot's position
    [​IMG]

    The Dedome system.
    [​IMG]

    The OEM front end on my other GS for comparaison.
    [​IMG]

    Another view of the Dedome front end mod.
    [​IMG]
    #45
  6. twintwin

    twintwin Been here awhile

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    Sorry for the [FONT='Verdana','sans-serif'] stuff, I do not kow what happened!, if the moderator can fix my mistake, I will appreciate and it will be much more pleasant to read. Thanks
    #46
  7. AceRph

    AceRph Affluenza Free! Administrator

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    For maintenance? Looks like the right side valve cover will clear the rigging.

    Have you ridden the modified bike w/o the hack?
    #47
  8. gregbenner

    gregbenner Long timer

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    Mike, when I posted this, i was only half serious, and was referring to my 1000 Strom/rig. After reading a bit more, and thinking some, which is always dangerous, I am now 90% serious. I certainly dont want to hijack this thread, it is way too cool. I signed up for GlobeRiders, have a few questions on bikes, e.g. a KLR, spoked wheels on my 650 Strom, which trip,etc. I will send you a pm or e mail in a couple days.

    greg

    #48
  9. mikepa

    mikepa SideCzarist

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    Given that I wear a prosthetic, I don't ride any "bike" unless it has a car attached, so no, I haven't tried. I'd expect the steering would be a bit dodgy :eek1.

    Best,
    #49
  10. eastbloc

    eastbloc comprador bourgeois

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    Although the question seems obvious, it's completely unnecessary, whether or not you wear a prosthesis. Once you ride with the hack, you won't want to ride without it :D

    Well, your truth as to that may vary. The real truth is that if you're capable and desirous of riding on two wheels you'll probably want a second bike. AT the very least, the sidecar will wear the tire unevenly, meaning you'll have to keep a set of wheels around as well if you plan on making the change regularly.

    Also, once you start to ride the rig and realize how much you like it, odds are you'll want to make additional tweaks to make it 'just right' for sidecar duty that will compromise two-wheeling even further.
    #50
  11. Uncle Ernie

    Uncle Ernie Long timer

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    Everyone's trunk rack angles down.
    Wouldn't it make it easier to keep stuff on the rack if it were prarallel to the ground?
    #51
  12. eastbloc

    eastbloc comprador bourgeois

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    Presuming you're going to secure it with something other than gravity, I don't think it matters much :)

    The stock Ural rack has a more convenient shape for object retention, with raised bars at the front and back. But if you ever want to strap an object to it larger than the distance between the raised bars, they're a hindrance.
    #52
  13. AceRph

    AceRph Affluenza Free! Administrator

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    Duh Ace! :shog
    #53
  14. rohdster

    rohdster The Leaping Wombat

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Gladstone, Queensland, Australia
    At one point I was considering Jay’s lower bridge but I went another way and have used the Dedome mod to ease the steering effort on my R1100GS rig.http://www.dedome.com/

    How to reduce the trail on the bmw with telelever without changing the angle of the fork and of course without dropping the front stock height!!. To do so, the steering angle must be straight up; this angle is the line between the bearing bolt located in the upper fork brace and the ball joint in the lower bridge. To change this line, once again without changing the angle of the fork, the ball joint must be relocated. To achieve this trail reduction, Dedome manufactures a new longer lower bridge and in the same time, to straight up the steering angle, he also changes the location for the ball joint on the A arm (telelever), shortening the A arm (cut and re-welded) to the same distance he has lengthen the new lower bridge (about ¾ inch). In other words, this pivot will move backward, and the trail is then reduced. The result is very convincing; the steering effort is much less. In my opinion the engineering is great and smart (does not change the look of the bike), and the finish is awesome, a real piece of art!

    -----------------------------------

    Does anyone know what a telelever is made of?

    Perhaps the welding consumables and procedure?

    rohdster :D
    #54
  15. BeemerChef

    BeemerChef Wandering Homeless

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    The TILT does not last. There is a thread with I think a dozen broken ones. But the need is really not there anymore is the rig if well ligned up. I must have been lucky as mine is and I truly do not miss it.

    Shocks... TwinTwin and someone else came up with a tongue weight formula which I believe is 60% of the car weight will be on the bike. Out of that weight 60% is on the rear. I changes my Ohlins to springs for a 500lb +/- rider and it is fantastic. A bit stiff off road but very doable. I just installed a HAGON shock on the Ural. For $140 delivered these people sell value!!!

    This rear wheel fabricated by David Hinze (owner by the way of that rig on page #1... red GS + Ural) has made all the difference in the world, handling and comfort. I have done much off road with it and amazingly, could be the much larger footprint it goes through deep sand and all with much ease...

    [​IMG]

    More photos here...
    It is a 30,000 mile tire VW...

    Juice... with 7 headlights and full Gerbing gear I have never had a problem using also an Odyssee battery...

    [​IMG]

    Great thread... much drooling!!!

    Be well... see you down the road!

    Ara & Spirit

    PS: question about your NATO cans! I just happen to order 2 today with their holders... are you usning them for fuel or water? I will be using mine for water and was told you can line them (somekind of silicone liquid fuel tank liner)... any clues? Thanks!
    #55
  16. eastbloc

    eastbloc comprador bourgeois

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    So you swapped out the spring on your Ohlins, huh?

    How much did that cost, if you don't mind me asking, and how long did it take?

    I have been drooling over a shock upgrade for a while, with new kit all around, but I can't afford to do it; meanwhile my rear shock is an Ohlins although set up for a solo ride.

    Since that is the most 'deficient' unit for my setup (although the Russian squeaker does not inspire confidence) it may be the cheapest way to improve my suspension...
    #56
  17. BeemerChef

    BeemerChef Wandering Homeless

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    If I remember the springs are $100. If Ohlin has it in stock just a couple to three days.
    Check with Hagon also.
    Best to speak with them on the phone for your needs.

    Be well... Ara & Spirit
    #57
  18. claude

    claude Sidecar Jockey

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    Ara wrote:
    >The TILT does not last. There is a thread with I think a dozen broken ones. But the need is really not there anymore is the rig if well ligned up. I must have been lucky as mine is and I truly do not miss it.<<

    It is still nice to have some adjustability if possible. If the electirc setup is questionable a manual setup can take it's place. That way if loads in the sidecar vary or road conditions warrant it the driver might be much happier.

    Example: Droning down a long straight road all day is no fun at all if the rig wants to pull to the right . To be able to easily dial in a little more tilt to take this away is never a bad thing.

    Have to admit on my personal rig the manual tilt is very seldom used but if needed it is nice to have a simple option.

    Ara wrote:
    >>This rear wheel fabricated by David Hinze (owner by the way of that rig on page #1... red GS + Ural) has made all the difference in the world, handling and comfort. I have done much off road with it and amazingly, could be the much larger footprint it goes through deep sand and all with much ease...<<

    I was looking forward to seeing Twin Twin and David as they were heading to the shop a couple weeks back but something came up. Was sure looking forward to seeing the wheel that David is making. Great looking product from th epictures and the way David explained to me on how he had done it sounds great. Not surprized as David is quite the craftsman when he gets into something.

    As you know we have done many rear wheel conversions using the same tire (165r15) and I can attest to how well they perform. We never have setup to do the conversions for bikes other than the ones that had the brake rotor seperate from the wheel. David pulled that off and it is good to see!

    If ANYONE feels the cost of a wheel conversion to run a car tire is high all they have to do is weigh the issues in front of them. Theses tires run around 50 bucks or so. Compare that to motorcycle tire prices. Then compare what kind of milage one gets between the car tire and a cycle tire on a typical sidecar rig and it isn't long before the value in doing the conversion begins t make sense.

    We have found that the 165 tires typically get at elast 20,000 miles and soem guys have gotten more than that. The worst we have seen was 16,000 but it was on the rear of a K1200LT that ran a lot of miles in the hot southwest pulling a large camper trailer. The setup on that rig was also unknown so that could have been a factor. Heck even at 16k for a 50 dollar tire the economics still are good in the long run.

    Some have opted to run 155 tires which are just a little smaller in diameter than the 165. This gets the rolling diameter back to stock so the speedometer is not off hardly any. Even with the 165 the eror isn't much at all especially if you consider that BMW speedos are not really known for being that accurate anyhow. The 155 does cost more.

    Others have run down to 135r15 tires. These are much smaller in diameter and do cost more. Availability is also an issue. Coker Tire typically stocks them though.

    I think for the GS type rigs the 165 is the champion. Costs are not bad and avaiability is USUALLY decent. Note that it is not a bad idea to purchase two of these tires when doing the conversion. Keep one on hand as a backup spare. These tires are manuafactured regularly but not daily so to speak.

    There have been times when on hand stock was limited or non existant for short periods on almost a national basis and that could be a bad deal if someone needed one immedialtely. I don't think we will ever see the 165 tires quit being made as they were a tire made for the older VW Beetles and are still quite popular among th eBeetle nuts and also some dune buggy folks.

    It is possible to groove these tires if a more agressive tread is wanted. Installing studs for winter are also a possibility.

    Below is a pic of one of our conversions on a K100 rig we built.
    [​IMG]
    #58
  19. BeemerChef

    BeemerChef Wandering Homeless

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    I have to say that I DO FOR SURE like the fact that in 5 minutes I can dial in manually the TILT mechanism, which I have till I got it right... Quite often, with my rig anyhow, even a new tire versus an old worn out will affect which way the darn thing wants to go!!!

    Hope you get to see that wheel soon Claude... Even if I only get 15,000 miles I will be more than happy! + as Dave says, I can change it with 2 butter knives!!!:lol3

    Be well... Ara & Spirit

    PS: can't wait to see you shop!!!
    #59