Yet another KLRE650...

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by Krasniewski, Jul 27, 2011.

  1. JAFO

    JAFO displaced Jeep guy.....

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    Sounds like you've got things under control. I am interested in finding out how you flush the tank for welding on it...

    I scored two fullsize bottles today- one oxygen and one acetylene.. for $0. Gotta love craigslist, the guy just wanted them gone. Now I need to get regulators and flashback arrestors.... and learn how to use my torch without blowing myself up!
    #81
  2. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    I have been filling up the tank with water and dish soap, mixing her up, then flushing with water a couple times. I then do the work, fill her up with gas, let her sit, drain remaining water, ride bike, then drain after she sits again.

    Today I was in no mood since I could do the repair right there w/o taking the tank off, so I drained the tank and hooked up the shop vac to blow air through the tank for an hour or so. I had to do this twice, as a second pinhole reared its ugly head after I filled the first... or filling the first caused the second one (doubt it); the second time around I'm pretty sure I didn't get all the gas out and I almost killed myself - don't recommend this method unless you have A LOT of time to air that tank out and a shop vac that won't shit the bed running constantly like that.

    Anyway, hopefully I don't wake up to a garage full of gas - I'd like to move on to other things. :D I did take her out around the block real quick and she rides better than I could have ever hoped for... first ride in eight months too! Man I've missed that. If I have time, I may throw on the PC3 tomorrow and see what that does. I can try to play around with the settings based on the butt dyno for now, but I really want to hand her over to a pro.
    #82
  3. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    :eek1

    That's awesome. Color me jealous. I bought some stuff to get the tig up and running a couple of days ago and the guy gave me a deal on some stuff - but I'm pretty sure it was out of pity since I asked him A LOT of retarded questions. Tragically, he did not offer me a free tank. :rofl

    Congrats on the score. Check out YouTube if you're interested in free lessons - nothing you can't learn on the internet nowadays.
    #83
  4. JAFO

    JAFO displaced Jeep guy.....

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    Yeah, youtube is how I taught myself to MIG weld. Not saying I'm ready to weld up coolant pipes for a reactor, but my welds are holding the suspension I built for my cage together just fine...

    I am growing concerned about having a huge bottle of acetylene in my back shed, though. Got any sources to recommend for acetylene shop safety? I understand it's pretty much the most unstable (read: explosive) fuel to have just sitting around. 1% saturation of an area can result in an explosion, apparently. Not fun..
    #84
  5. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    Idk - never seemed like a big deal to me. Like with anything else gas-fueled, keep the bottle closed when not in use and make sure it's secure and not subject to lots of temperature variations. :thumb

    I'd ask the question HERE.
    #85
  6. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    Ok, got the Power Commander in... just romped around the neighborhood, but loved the results. I bought the PC used, so no CD and no USB cable, so I have no idea what map is on there, but it's definitely an improvement, but certainly there's room for more. :norton I've been told that Lee's Cycle Service here in San Diego is the place to go, so I can't wait to hand them the keys and make her right.

    Before the bike was garaged, I was considering gearing the bike up since first gear is pretty steep and I could stand to drop the RPM at highway speed. Now, with the boosted performance, I'm definitely going to play with the gearing. I'll start with one tooth on the front sprocket. EDIT: Counted, and I'm sitting on a 14T front - looks like 15 teeth was stock, so this was geared down - makes sense. Going back to stock!

    Also - the gas tank seems to be holding up well. While I was doing the PC install I took out the dremel and cleaned up a couple of welds. Some of those things are just embarrassing.

    Lovin' this ride so much I've got a new Ricor rear shock on her way. :evil

    Oh, and bought some insurance. Gotta start riding this beast. :clap
    #86
  7. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    Got to work today and more leaking fuel out of the nipple area on the aux tank - so more practice brazing today over lunch - more pinholes to fill! A buddy came with and got to learn and try out some brazing for himself - always fun! :1drink

    SS nipples are a better idea yet, but hopefully this holds up as I don't feel like hunting around for some and redoing all my hard work. Also not a bad idea would be some coating that will fill up the pinholes and prevented corrosion. I asked once at an Autozone about a tank coating/liner, and they told me that it doesn't exist b/c tanks don't rust due to the fuel displacing water (so just keep you tank full at all times?). I should have looked harder.

    Now on the short list is a new front tire (not THAT bad yet, but I think it's the stock Death Wing - cupped, cracked, and low on tread - but it's a KLR, so prob good as long as the chords aren't showing). Also, not that I need it now, I noticed that I don't have heated grips - how did that happen? Warm gloves and hand-guards are OK, but heated grips are a cheap and awesome add-on on the long days.


    EDIT: Enduro 3 front tire and front sprocket on order.
    #87
  8. KLRsys

    KLRsys Been here awhile

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    I used Kreem in my pump tank, not for leaks but for corrosion protection. But I'm sure it would be good at sealing pinhole leaks. I first saw your project last October, glad to see you back at it.
    #88
  9. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    Thanks for the info! Followed your link in the sig to your build - very impressive.



    In other news - I have an appt on Tuesday to get my bike Dyno'd - can't wait for that.

    Even better news is I found the old build pics I thought I had lost! Of course, I was looking for some other pics, which seem to have disappeared. I'll post them now. :norton Sorry - they're WAY overdue!

    The two shall merge...
    [​IMG]


    A truly naked bike.
    [​IMG]


    The two engines, side by side.
    [​IMG]


    Two rolling chassisessesees, side by side.
    [​IMG]


    One in front of the other:
    [​IMG]


    And again:
    [​IMG]


    08+ KLR radiator (on bike) and Ninja rad hanging next door. Almost the same size, but bigger fan on the EX. Also, the KLR mounts vertically, where the Ninja's is horizontally.
    [​IMG]


    OK, so the EX650 motor fits in the KLR, but doesn't work out for a number of reasons.
    [​IMG]


    So I do the bare minimum to make her fit:
    [​IMG]


    And the rest is history.
    [​IMG]



    Other build pics are on page 2... :deal
    #89
  10. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    Hve you done anything about your front down tubes yet.
    I and i'm sure a lot others would sleep easier once you get some better ones fabbed up and welded in properly.
    #90
  11. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    From page 2:

    [​IMG]



    It's my understanding that the spine carries most of the load, not the engine cradle. Reference the stock Ninja frame that doesn't even cradle the around the bottom of the motor - it's just the spine (well, split spine in this case?) and the stressed motor.

    Unless I find a stress fracture somewhere - the tubes aren't going anywhere. I'm very confident in them. I know the welds are ugly, but I'm sure they're solid.
    #91
  12. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    Ok

    Just don't go jumping the thing at speed.
    #92
  13. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    Thanks, mom. :gerg :rolleyes
    #93
  14. JagLite

    JagLite Long timer

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    I am sorry to tell you that you are mistaken about the frame loads. :eek1
    The "spine" as you call it, or backbone (top tube) is only one path for the transfer of loads.
    You are correct that a properly designed frame does NOT require an under engine cradle.
    Because the frame gets the required triangulation from other tubes and/or the engine mounting.

    The EX uses the engine as part of the frame and the engine castings are designed to carry the loads.
    As you understand as you said it is a stressed engine.
    The KLR frame does NOT use the engine as part of the frame so it needs a different design.

    Your modification to the frame is definitely NOT as strong as it was before because of the way you added the new cradle tubes. However, IF you make good solid engine mounts to use the EX engine as part of the frame by tying the steering tube through the engine to the swingarm mounts you will recover a lot of the lost strength. Maybe enough even... If your engine mount points are well engineered to carry the frame loading and are extremely precise bolt line-up. No oversized holes allowed!

    In frame design, think of triangulation, or even better, pyramids, 3 sided pyramids with each corner and the top as the fixed points. It can't be bent, twisted, or distorted without huge forces. A typical motorcycle frame with a double cradle is actually a poor compromise because of packaging an engine. A much better design is the perimeter frame where the load path from the stem to the swingarm can be almost in-line and then another tube (each side) can either be above or below the engine and going from the stem to another tube to create a triangle. Does that make sense? It is late and my brain is tired. Then the two frame side triangles are cross connected and braced.

    Your frame mods have broken the load path that went down the front tube and then split into a double cradle under the engine forming a triangle. It would have been MUCH better if you had connected your new cradle at the front tube in one place forming a bent triangle under the engine similar to the stock frame. By putting a cross tube horizontal and then connecting your cradle tubes to it you have turned the cradle into a bent rectangle which has very little resistance to twist. Picture an open cardboard box and how easy it is to deform it by pushing in on any corner.

    A motorcycle frame is designed to handle a lot of twist not just supporting the weight of the engine and tying the stem to the swingarm.

    I strongly encourage you to rethink and rebuild your frame modification.
    It can be done correctly without major expense or time.

    First, cut out the tubes you added and then have the correct size TUBING (not pipe) bent to shape that will meet together on the front down tube at whatever height you need for engine clearance (oil filter, etc.). It would also be very good to get short (2"-3") tube that is a tight fit inside the frame tubes to act as internal sleeve stiffeners for the weld joint. Drill a hole through the frame tubes and puddle weld the sleeves in place before welding the new tubes to the existing frame tubes.

    Others have successfully modified the KLR frame so learn from them.
    #94
  15. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    what he said
    #95
  16. JAFO

    JAFO displaced Jeep guy.....

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    I'm glad he typed it up- I was going to say much the same last night but it was just too damn late.

    Do HIGHLY suggest you follow his advice, and definitely sleeve the frame junctions before welding, and rosette weld (drill hole and "puddle weld" it) before welding all the joints.

    This is quite similar to building a rollcage. The way to go when you are building a cage is, as here- triangulation.
    #96
  17. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    Noted, thanks for all the concern and input.

    Maybe someday... I'm still completely unconcerned. :bueller
    #97
  18. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    Mate there is a huge risk that the frame might give way.
    What happens if that frame breaks when your hooking into your favourite high speed corner or going down a rough track at speed.

    I'm sorry to be blunt but not only is the tube work you've done not up to scratch but your welds are no where near good enough for frame work. From the pics it looks like you have a lot of slag contamination and inconsistant penatration which will premote sudden cracking through the weld and as your frame design is relying on weld strength and not trianglation then you probably wont get a warning of a stress fractures apear but a complete and sudden faliure.


    Please for your own safety please have a fabricator look at it and design some proper down tubes.
    You've already done all the hard work it would be easy for a fabricator to knock up some nicely bent down tubes and weld them in there for you.


    Sorry about the bad spelling.
    #98
  19. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    EDIT: Current close up pics of the frame welds:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Sounds like a challenge... now I'm just going to TRY to break the frame. :p3rry

    Anyhoo - I'm going to go and find some gas tank sealant. :becca

    Don't know I'll be able to make my dyno tomorrow. :cry
    #99
  20. Krasniewski

    Krasniewski I don't ride much.

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    At least the good news is that some parts are in...

    A much wider, shaplier seat for a much wider, shaplier butt.
    [​IMG]


    And rubber can really keep you out of trouble... unless, of course, your frame breaks...
    [​IMG]