Zumo 660 + iPhone4S + Sena SMH10... can I do this?

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by El Gato, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. El Gato

    El Gato Been here awhile

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    I think I've read all the threads here, as well as the support docs on the Sena site, and from what I gather I can't do what I want to do using just these three pieces of hardware. Here's what I want to do:

    1) Voice control of my iPhone (including Siri, voice dialing, controlling playlist, etc.)
    2) Calls to/from my iPhone (duh)
    3) Music from my iPhone (both iTunes as well as Pandora)
    4) Zumo interrupts with nav guidance

    As I understand it, I have to pair the iPhone to the Zumo, and then the Zumo to the Sena. This renders the iPhone as just a phone (no music, no fancy voice control). I then have to use the Zumo to play MP3's.

    My question - is there some other doohickey that can get these three to play nice with each other and do what I want to do? I'm Autocom illiterate - I don't know if there's a potential solution there. What about the Sena SR10 - can this be used as a "smart hub" to get this to work? I have the Sena and iPhone already, and they work together flawlessly, but I haven't bought a Zumo yet, mostly because I can't figure out how to get the overall integration to work the way I want it.

    Thanks,
    John
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  2. JR356

    JR356 Long timer

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  3. El Gato

    El Gato Been here awhile

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    Thanks - yes, I have seen that and it describes the pairing setup I described above that I want to avoid, i.e.,

    iPhone => Zumo => Sena

    That setup doesn't allow you to use the iPhone for anything other than make/receive phone calls (dialed and answered through the Zumo). I'd like to use it for music, voice dialing, and other stuff that a direct iPhone => Sena pairing would enable, and then have the Zumo interrupt for nav guidance only.
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  4. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    I think there are many others struggling with the same thing you are trying to do. I wish I had all these devices in my possession so I could test this and layout instructions to how to do it.

    Here's the basic issue though that you are going to run into and is based around BT profiles. (BT Profiles Wiki) The SMH-10 can support up to 2 devices if they are using different profiles, or one device could connect using all the profiles. When you connect a mono BT device it uses a headset and/or hands-free proflie. (HFP/HSP). Most phones use these profiles together to give you more functions that the HFP profile offers. The HSP type of profile is the profile most basic BT headsets support and some add in the HFP also. It usually is profile your phone connects to a headset with or a GPS for just navigation instructions. Siri probably connects over these profiles too.

    The other BT profile the SMH-10 supports is BT over stereo or A2DP (Advanced Audio Distribution Profile) and this is often used in conjunction with AVRCP (Audio/Video Remote Control Profile) to control the music. This profile is basically used for MP3, Pandora, and many other apps on your phone that broadcast any media type sound.

    So, if you connect just your iPhone to your SMH-10, then it's grabbing both the HFP/HSP for basic phone functions and A2DP/AVRCP for music and audio controls. That doesn't leave anything for the GPS to connect to.

    Since the Zumo 660 supports basic phone control profiles and A2DP for music, if you connect it to the SMH-10, it also grabs both profiles, so once again it grabs both sets of profiles and your phone is left with nothing to connect to.

    Yes as you know, you can connect your iPhone through your GPS, but it probably only supports basic phone functions of calling and answering phone, but since you have on screen support of your phone through the GPS, does it really matter if you can't use voice dialing?

    You obviously can't tell the SMH10 to only use a certain profile when connecting to a device to leave the other profile open, so its up to the device you are connecting to it to try to only use 1 profile when you connect it. I haven't had my hands on the Zumo 660, but if there is a way in the BT settings to tell the GPS to only connect via the HFP/HSP profile for phone only, that would leave the A2DP/AVRCP open on the SMH10 for the iPhone for music. And then you sync the iPhone's A2DP/AVRCP to the SMH10 for music and the HFP/HSP to the GPS for phone audio. Again this requires the iPhone to be able to specify one profile for one device and another profile for another device. Android does this natively since 2.3. I know you can do it with a rooted iPhone, but not sure on a stock iPhone 4S.

    Or as you mentioned, you might be able to add in the SR10 to do this. Now as of right now, the SR10 doesn't support A2DP connections so you can't listen to music over the SR10 from a device, but it still might work. Since we know the SR10 doesn't support A2DP, we know for a fact the SR10 will connect to the SMH10 via the HSP only so it leaves the A2DP profile open. This would allow you to sync your phone's A2DP/AVRCP connection to the SMH10. (make sure the SR10 is paired first). With firmware update 1.1 for the SR10, they added in voice control to cell phones, so this should allow SIRI to work through the SR10. So then you can pair your iPhone to the SR10 via HFP/HSP profiles. And I think you can still sync in your GPS to the SR10 for nav instructions, or just use one of the aux ports to run a cable from the GPS to the SR10 if you want to go that way.

    Again, this above scenario requires that you are able to sync your iPhone two different devices simultaneously using the A2DP profile for one device and the HFP/HSP for the other.
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  5. El Gato

    El Gato Been here awhile

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    Thanks BlueLghtning! That was very helpful. Sounds like there may be a potential solution in using the SR10. I was poking around the support/forum area of the Sena site last night to see if this had been asked/answered, and in one of the forum posts discussing Bluetooth connectivity the Admin/Rep from Sena made reference to a "new A2DP hub" that is currently in development and is planned for release in Q2 2012. I'm also holding out hope that Garmin comes out with a successor to the Zumo 660/665 that leverages the advances in the new Nuvi line that was announced at CES this year. Sounds like one or both of these may provide some improvement in Bluetooth connectivity. Seeing as I'm in no real rush, and there doesn't appear to be a proven elegant way to do it, I may just sit tight and just continue to use my iPhone as a GPS nav for the moment and see how this all plays out.

    Thanks again for the very thorough reply.

    -John
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  6. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    The two things you could help me with to make sure I'm understanding this correctly also is tell me what options you have on both the Zumo 660 and iPhone 4S under BT settings when its connected to something.

    On the Zumo, what are your different options for BT? Can you select phone, mp3, navigation? What are all the options listed?

    How about on the iPhone 4S. If you have your iPhone connected to the SMH10 where both the voice commands work and music and you go into BT settings on the iPhone and select the SMH10 connection. Do you have options there where it shows phone only or media and allow you to unselect either one?

    I honestly would be really surprised by Apple if the iPhone 4S which I believe comes with OS 5 doesn't have options to de-select certain BT profiles when connected to an item that is using more than one profile at a time. Like I said, this have been available in Android since 2.3 (Gingerbread). I know I use it a lot because I have a BT receiver that I plug headphones into use to listen to music on my phone, but I don't want it to connect to the headset profile which it would by default, but by un-selecting that, I keep them from connecting and that allows my phone to still connect to say the SR10 or my BT headset simultaneously while still listening to music on another device.
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  7. El Gato

    El Gato Been here awhile

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    I'll need someone else to answer your question on the Zumo as I don't own one yet (I wanted to make sure I could connect it and get the functionality I'm looking for before shelling out the $$).

    On the iPhone side, when I go into BT settings and select the Sena SMH10 (or any paired device) the only option available is "Forget this device". There's no option to control which pairing protocol is used. This may be an option on jailbroken iPhones, but I haven't done that to my phone (maybe someone else can chime in on this).
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  8. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    Hmm, that stinks. Yeah in Android we have the same option "Forget This Device", but also have one called "options" and when you go in there you'll see "phone audio" or "media audio". Basically the HFP profile or the A2DP profile.
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  9. El Gato

    El Gato Been here awhile

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    I thought I had read something about this in the SMH10 manual so I just went back and checked... seems that this can be controlled by the SMH10 even if I can't control it from the iPhone side. Pages 9 - 10 of the SMH10 manual explain ways to control which protocol (A2DP or HFP) you use to pair to a device.

    PAIRING WITH SELECTIVE PROFILE: A2DP STEREO OR HANDSFREE
    If you have a MP3 stereo music phone such as a smartphone, sometimes you may
    need to selectively use the SMH10 for A2DP stereo music only or for mobile phone
    hands-free only. This instruction is for advanced users who want to pair the SMH10
    to their smartphones only with one selective profile: A2DP Stereo for music or HFP
    for phone call.
    If it is not the first time to do paring with the smartphone, you have to clear the
    previous paring list on both devices; the smartphone and SMH10. To clear pairing
    list on SMH10, please do factory reset described on the page 16. To clear pairing
    list on the smartphone, please refer to the smartphone manual.
    • A2DP Stereo Music Only
    1. Turn on the headset and press the Phone Button for 5 seconds until the LED
    flashes red and blue alternately and you hear multiple beeps.
    2. Within 2 seconds, tap the Jog Dial again, then the LED turns to red flashing and
    the beeps turn to double mid-tone beeps.
    3. Search for Bluetooth devices on your smartphone. The headset will be listed on
    your mobile phone as SMH10.
    4. Enter 0000 for the PIN. Some smartphones may not ask for PIN.
    • HFP for Phone Call Only
    1. Turn on the headset and press the Phone Button for 5 seconds until the LED
    flashes red and blue alternately and you hear multiple beeps.
    2. Within 2 seconds, tap the Phone Button again, then the LED turns to blue flashing
    and the beeps turn to multiple mid-tone beeps.
    3. Search for Bluetooth devices on your smartphone. The headset will be listed on
    your mobile phone as SMH10.
    4. Enter 0000 for the PIN. Some smartphones may not ask for PIN.
    #9
  10. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    Wow, that is perfect. That would allow you pair the GPS as handsfree only and the phone as Stereo only. Thanks for looking that up.

    I still don't think you'd get your voice dialing (or Siri) since I don't think that is transferred when the GPS is the hub between the headset and phone, but you have on screen control of your phone through the GPS, so the voice dialing may not be a big issue? I'm not sure if you are aware, but most phones pass your contact list into the GPS so you can use the screen to dial a specific contact or type in a number. And if you are looking up restaurants or a place to stop and it has a phone number in the GPS, if your phone is connected through the GPS, you can automatically tell it to dial that number. It works great.

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  11. El Gato

    El Gato Been here awhile

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    Thanks. So if I understand you correctly, of my list of "wants" above:

    1) Voice control of my iPhone (including Siri, voice dialing, controlling playlist, etc.) Not likely
    2) Calls to/from my iPhone (duh) Yes, through the Zumo (no voice dialing)
    3) Music from my iPhone (both iTunes as well as Pandora) Yes, by pairing the iPhone to the SMH10 using selective A2DP
    4) Zumo interrupts with nav guidance Yes

    Does this sound correct?

    This may be OK. Not great, but OK. I actually use voice dialing a fair amount. After music/playlist control, it's the next-most used voice feature for me. I realize that the address book would be in the Zumo, but this would require me to look at the Zumo and press (I'm assuming) multiple buttons to make a call vs. pressing one button on the SMH10 and saying "call my wife". From a safety perspective, the latter has obvious benefit.

    Thanks again for all your help.

    -John
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  12. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    Yeah, I think you pretty much got it. You know as I sit here, I'm wondering why voice dial through the GPS doesn't work, or does it? If you can talk on your phone through the GPS, why aren't the voice commands being passed back through it? They actually might, and maybe I'm just wrong on that aspect.

    Just did a bit of googling and voice dialing with the Zumo 660 and iPhone 4S might actually work if you are quick enough - http://wouter.shush.com/2011/11/iphone-4s-siri-and-the-garmin-zumo-660

    Now, if you add in the SR10, you might get voice dialing back since it supposed to support voice dial directly through the SR10.

    I'm not sure if you've ever used your phone through your GPS control, but its really not that bad. Its really not much different then just looking up stuff on the GPS. A couple button pushes easily makes a call and works every time unlike voice dial which can be hit or miss. If I had I choice, I would take full address book control of my phone through my GPS over voice dialing.
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  13. Narsisco Lopez

    Narsisco Lopez Addlepated

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    Coming in late to this conversation, but I've got a Zumo 660, an iPhone (alas, only 3G... haven't upgraded yet) and and a Sena SMH-10.

    I learned very early on that I couldn't do what the OP wanted to do, but I've learned to get along just fine w/o voice dialing, since the Zumo imports the iPhone's entire address book when linked and doing a look-up of a particular phone number using the Zumo's touch screen is pretty easy.... even at highway speeds (in heavy traffic is another story!).

    I snagged a decent micro SD at Costco for a great price, dragged over music folders from my iTunes folder to the micro SD and created custom playlists that show up on the Zumo (learned to do it over on the ZumoForums.com site... there is a WEALTH of valuable info on the Zumo there and lot's of guys that will help you, albeit, sometimes not as patient with 205s as they are in here).

    Again, finding and playing music using the Zumo isn't as slick as on the iPhone, but it's pretty easy to do, especially at highway speeds with even the thickest gloves on... sure beats NOT having it and being stuck humming the same tune over and over again in your head on that long, lonely stretch of road!

    While not perfect, the Zumo, iPhone, Sena SMH-10 combo is super-handy and you learn pretty quickly to deal with the minor quirks.

    What I really wish was available for the next generation Zumos? XM satellite radio and on-screen weather radar!
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  14. Xdriver

    Xdriver Been here awhile

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    I too have the same combo. Works great 99% of the time. Only problem that I ever have is occasionally the music comes through as if using headphones that aren't fully plugged in.....can't get full volume, and sounds hollow. I just shut down everything, and turn on again slowly giving it time to pair up. GPS, then the phone, and then SEMA. Other occasional problem I have is when everything is paired, I load a route and the 660 shuts down. May be something else going on there.

    It's nice having the tunes. When riding without the GPS on a short local ride, I pair to my iphone as just a stereo bluetooth and listen to Pandora. That's even better.
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  15. El Gato

    El Gato Been here awhile

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    See - that's the thing... I currently have just the iPhone and Sena SMH10. I can listen to my music, Pandora, voice dial, I have Tomtom GPS for nav guidance -- everything works perfectly. The only things I'm looking to gain with the Zumo are a) weatherproof-ness, b) more advanced trip routing. The "multiple waypoint routing" in v1.8 of Tomtom iPhone provided just enough capability that it's more or less usable for simple routes, so I'd hate to give up all the creature comforts of the iPhone capability just to get these two things.

    Thanks for everyone's inputs. I'm still on the fence on whether the Zumo benefits outweigh what I'd give up. Sena supposedly has an "A2DP hub" that's coming out in the next few months that may bring some new connection capability to the mix so I may just sit tight for now. This thread has been very helpful.
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  16. Narsisco Lopez

    Narsisco Lopez Addlepated

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    Just read the brief description of the Sena SR-10. Since you're already happy with your current set-up, looks like the SR-10 could give you the audio prompts from the Zumo just fine... you'd just have to hard wire it with a jack. Or as you said, hang tight for a more advanced hub solution.
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  17. AVGeek94

    AVGeek94 Been here awhile

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    Great Find! It looks like with the SR10 I was planning on adding anyway, I could potentially have everything the OP did ask for. I'll set up the SMH10 for selective pairing (stereo) to the iPhone, then pair the iPhone to the SR10 for HFP. The SR10 will also handle my ham radio and (future) Montana.
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  18. El Gato

    El Gato Been here awhile

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    Please report back -- I'd love to hear how it all works once you've got it set up.
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  19. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    I think what you are still going to run into is the fact that natively the iPhone doesn't allow you to connect to 2 different BT devices simultaneously even if one is A2DP and the other is HFP. I asked on a local forum after seeing the issues the OP ran into if anyone's iPhone, even the latest 4GS could connect to 2 different BT devices at the same time and everyone said no. I think you are going to have to jail break your iPhone do accomplish that. If you find a way around that though, definitely report back.
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  20. El Gato

    El Gato Been here awhile

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