Zumo 660 + iPhone4S + Sena SMH10... can I do this?

Discussion in 'Mapping & Navigation' started by El Gato, Feb 6, 2012.

  1. El Gato

    El Gato Been here awhile

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    I had the opportunity to put a couple hundred miles on my setup yesterday, and it appears to be working perfectly:

    1) iPhone 4S paired to Sena SMH10 via A2DP + HFP pairing
    2) Zumo 220 paired to Sena SMH10 via HFP multipoint pairing

    This retains complete control of the iPhone (voice control, Siri, music, etc.), and the Zumo interrupts with GPS guidance. One of the reasons I ended up choosing the 220 over the 660 is because the 220 uses only an HFP profile, which ended up making this process a lot simpler.
    #41
  2. AVGeek94

    AVGeek94 Been here awhile

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    Perfect, thanks! I intend to use the SR10, as I want to incorporate a Garmin Montana and my ham HT.
    #42
  3. Semongtaulie

    Semongtaulie Adventurer

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    Thanks for following up Dan. Sounds like I need to go the SR10 route. Of course while I was on the phone with Adam at RocketMoto he brought up his experience with the Adaptiv radar detector with the visual alert. If I used that or a Marc Parnes unit with my V1, then I wouldn't have to worry about pairing problems. From what I've read on this forum though, people seem to miss the visual alerts easier than the audible alerts, hence my desire to have my V1 connected to the SMH10.
    Also, since the Zumo 660 uses both A2DP and HFP and the iPhone uses A2DP there is no way for me to have both going to my SMH10 unless I get the SR10. To me the music sounds better from the iPhone than from the Zumo.
    My ultimate goal is to remove the Zumo entirely. I soon as I figure out how to do route planning on the desktop and send it to the iPhone, the Zumo will be gone.
    #43
  4. danham

    danham Been here awhile

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    For me, the visual helmet alerts pose two problems. First, as you say, easier to miss. Second, it adds steps to a process that sometimes needs to be instantaneous. In other words, when the helmet light blinks, it's time to glance at the V1 and check the arrows and also try to determine band by reading those tiny LEDs. No thanks. I prefer hearing exactly what the threat is before having to take my eyes off the road (or not if it's X-band, for ex.).

    For music (which I choose not to use, so take this with a grain of salt), it seems to me you'd do best to hardwire the zumo to an SR10, eliminating its somewhat flaky BT from the equation, and pair your iPhone to the SMH10 using both profiles. I tested this at home with music as part of experimenting with voice control and it sounded great, plus you get the advantage of being able to use your whole music collection, not just MP3 formatted songs.

    -dan
    #44
  5. Semongtaulie

    Semongtaulie Adventurer

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    I think I am going the SR10 route. That way I can set up exactly as you recommend. It looks like Sena has a SM10 coming out that will perform like the SR10 but no two way radio input, which I don't need anyway. I may wait on that unit but Sena usually runs behind on their new product intro schedule. If and when it becomes easy to use the iphone as my GPS/phone/music player I'll sell the hub. I guess the other other option is a Mixit with BT dongle but overall cost favors the SR10.
    Thanks for all the info. This forum provides a wealth of information.
    #45
  6. abhibeckert

    abhibeckert Long timer

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    That sounds strange to me. At the very least, it should be able to connect to devices that are on different protocols.

    iPhones use bluetooth for all kinds of things, audio, keyboards, internet tethering, multiplayer gaming... I'm sure it can do multiple devices at once. But perhaps not multiple devices of the same type.
    #46
  7. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    True, probably doesn't affect keyboards and stuff like that, but it certainly affects HFP & A2DP profiles. No one has proven that a stock iphone (not jailbroken) can connect to one HFP headset and a different device for A2DP music.

    Regardless, with SMH version 4.0 and the multipairing of 2 HPF devices plus an A2DP device, Sena has basically resolved the issue so many iPhone users were running into.
    #47
  8. Dasadab

    Dasadab Been here awhile

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    Hi, I posted over at BMWRT and I got a suggestion that I see if you can help me. I have a 2012 BMW RT. It has the BMW audio package and a NAV IV GPS. My wife and I like to ride 2 up. We each have Sena SMH10s. Additionally, I bypassed the BMW Blue Tooth built in the bike for various compatibility reasons. I bought a SM10 BT dongle, which I hard wired into the bike's unused rear speaker wires (there are no rear speakers, but the wiring is there). We both have iphone 4s's. I have paired the SMH10s to the SM10. Both my wife and I can now hear the BMW radio and the Nav IV's voice prompts.

    I am not sure how to integrate the 2 iPhones into the set up. I think that I can just pair each iPhone to its respective SMH10. So we could each answer calls and I think? listen to music on the respective iPhones. I think this is done with multipoint pairing, but I am not sure.

    But, I was thinking that I would like to pair my iPhone to the Nav IV because you can see who is calling and you can make calls from the phone book. I don't want to try and make calls using the iPhone itself--won't work with gloves, it's not mounted anywhere, etc.

    I am not sure if I can get this to all work together because I don't understand the BT stuff very well. If you have any suggestions, I would sure appreciate it. Thanks. Dean
    #48
  9. Dasadab

    Dasadab Been here awhile

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    I think I figured it out as best I can. I wanted to follow up on my original posting because I have done some further experimentation. This is what I am now doing: In case this might save someone else some trouble.

    1. Pair the SMH10 to the SM10 using MSP (media selective pairing on the SMH10. (Section 7.1 of Users Guide)Press phone button for 5 seconds--red and blue flashes--tap Jog Dial. "Media Selective Pairing"
    2. Pair the iPhone to the SMH10 using HFP(hands free phone setting on the SMH10 (Section 7.2) Press phone button for 5 seconds--red,blue flashes--tap the phone button again.
    3. Pair iPhone to NavIV using ONLY the "PHONE"option in the NavIV bluetooth menu.
    4. Pair each SMH10 to the other--Press and hold the Jog dial of each unit for 5 seconds--flashes red--tap the jog dial of each unit. I also paired the second SMH10 to the SM10.

    Now, I can hear the BMW radio, incoming calls mute the radio, I can visually see incoming calls on the GPS display (but can't use the iphone's address book) and I can have an intercom with the pillon. Unless anyone has a better suggested configuration, I think I am done, but comments welcome. Thanks. Dean

    [​IMG]
    #49
  10. danham

    danham Been here awhile

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    Dean,

    Quick question. How is your Nav IV paired to any of the Sena gear? Is it via the hub, or one or both helmet units?

    I ask because my zumo 660 would definitely not allow the setup you describe -- it "hogs" both A2DP and HFP slots in the SMH-10, preventing any other device, like my iPhone, from using A2DP to my helmet. I have therefore hardwired my zumo to an SR-10 hub and paired the hub via HFP only to my helmet, leaving one HFP and one A2DP slot for the iPhone.

    -dan
    #50
  11. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    I think you are going to run into issues with 2 & 3. The GPS and the NavIV should be using the same profile on the iPhone so in this case, it will just depend on what device is able to grab the profile first and that will be which way its connected. And because they both want it, you might run into issues with it constantly disconnecting and reconnecting.

    One thing I don't understand is what you are getting your music from that you are pumping through the SM10? Is it coming from a built in source on the BMW? If you aren't getting music from your iPhone and want to take calls through the GPS, then I would only pair your iPhone to your NavIV only and that way you can see who's calling on the screen and use the on screen functions.

    If you are getting music from your iPhone, my understanding is it doesn't like to split its BT connection with more than one device at a time. Like you can't have your iPhone paired to the GPS for phone usage and the SM10 for music. At least that is my understanding.


    #51
  12. Dasadab

    Dasadab Been here awhile

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    Thanks.
    I appreciate the help. To answer the above question. The music source is the factory BMW radio. Because the BMW Bluetooth on the bike (2012RT) is so crappy in stability and music quality, I bypassed it by disabling the BT function. The bike has 2 front speakers and a connector for rear speakers. The rear speakers are not installed. As suggested on BMWLT forum, I tapped into the unused rear speaker wires and via miniplug sent the rear speaker sound to the Sena SM10. I then went on the radio menu and, using the FADE function, turned down the front speakers all the way in favor of the rear speakers. Therefore, all of the BMW radio functions are now broadcast through the SM10. Because the NAV IV is connected via its factory cradle the the BMW radio, I can hear GPS voice commands that are sent through the rear speakers and then broadcast by the SM10.

    My goal is to figure out how best to set things up for my wife and I--2 helmets with SMH10 units, 2 iPhones, the SM10 (which can broadcast BT on 2 channels, i.e. to my SMH10 and to my wife's SMH10) along with the NAV IV.

    I thought from my post immediately above that I had gone as far as I could given my limited knowledge. But if you feel it won't be stable I would greatly appreciate any suggestions. My SMH10s have been updated to latest beta firmware: 4.2.

    I don't mind using my iPhone for calls only and not music, if that helps. I would like to have full functionality with the GPS phone features. The GPS's BT menu has two parts: PHONE and AUDIO. I have the AUDIO function disabled because I couldn't get it to pair with the SMH10.

    Basically, I would so appreciate help with an outline---pair this to that using this type of pairing, etc.

    Thank you. Dean
    #52
  13. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    Okay that makes sense.

    Is the BMW Nav IV basically a Zumo 660/665? I think that's going to present an issue depending on which way you go. I'll explain below

    You should be fine paring both your SMH10's to the SM10 for music and as you said you actually get driving directions that way as the NAV IV is feeding audio into the BMW system. Your wife should be able to do "phone only" selective pairing to her SMH10 if she wants to take phone calls.

    If you want phone control over your iPhone via the GPS, you would pair the iPhone with the GPS which is the headset only pairing. However I think the next step is where you are going to have a problem. Technically, you should also be pairing your GPS to your SMH10, but if the BMW Nav IV is a Zumo 660/665, I think you are going to find out that even if you have it selected as phone only, it will still want to grab the A2DP profile for music which means its going to conflict with the SM10. This is a huge Garmin flaw and needs to be corrected. There is no reason that it should be grabbing the A2DP profile if you select Phone only in the GPS. That's what I've gathered from this thread and others is regardless of what setting you have selected on the Zumo 660/665 when you pair it to the SMH10, it grabs both profiles which creates issues with other music devices. In your case, that will be the SM10.

    If you find that to be the case also when you try this, the only way I see a way around this is to do a selective pairing of your iPhone to your SMH10 only which means you'll be giving up phone control via the GPS, but will at least allow you to answer the phone if you desire.
    #53
  14. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    Dasadab (Dean). I just went back and read this post from danham I linked below.

    If the BMW Nav IV is the Zumo 660, then this applies. I know you already own two SMH10's and the SM10, but technically adding an SR10 to your setup would solve your issues and let you do exactly what you want. I know its not a cheap option, but it would work 100% like you want.

    SM10 hardwired to BMW audio system for music
    Pair both SMH10's to the SM10 for music
    Pair your iphone to the BMW Nav IV for phone access
    Hardwire the BMW Nav IV to the SR10
    Pair your SMH10 to the SR10 for phone only (HFP) connection
    Your wife's iPhone paired to her SMH10 (phone only) means she can take her own calls.

    So basically, this eliminates the huge issue of the Zumo 660 (BMW Nav IV) from hogging both the HFP & A2DP profiles.

    You would have music from the SM10 and what ever you pumped into there
    You would have full GPS control over your iPhone and by being paired to the SR10, you would have 2 way BT communication to your GPS via the SMH10.

    Everything you want! :clap


    #54
  15. Dasadab

    Dasadab Been here awhile

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    Thanks for working with me on all this.

    The Nav. IV is, according to another forum, basically the same as a Zumo 660.

    I don't want at this time to get a SR10, but I really appreciate the information on the Nav IV's limitations and the suggestion about possibly adding a SR10. Given the NavIV's limitations. Could you confirm that the below set up is correct:

    SM10 hardwired to BMW audio system for music

    Pair both SMH10's to the SM10 for music, using Media Selective Pairing setting on SMH10s (Sena User's Guide, 7.1).

    Pair my iphone to the BMW Nav IV for PHONE on the NavIV menu and, on the SMH10, pair using HFP for Phone Call Only--called Phone Selective Pairing (Sena User's Guide, 7.2). Don't attempt to pair anything with the AUDIO pairing option on the NavIV.

    My wife's iPhone paired to her SMH10 (phone only) means she can take her own calls.
    Question: Does this mean that I should pair my wife's iPhone using HFP (Phone Call Selective Pairing) only?
    On my wife's phone, can't I use Mobile Phone Pairing (section 6.1) so that she can make calls and listen to music on her iPhone?

    Last, I would pair the SMH10s to each other for intercom use.

    If you think this is correct, I will go with it. I recognize that I can only answer calls with the Nav. IV--not use other functions on this GPS unit.

    I am hoping this seem like the way to go for now (unless I later decide to add the SR10)

    THANK YOU!
    Dean
    #55
  16. BlueLghtning

    BlueLghtning Riding is my passion

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    This wont work if I'm understanding you correctly. Are you stating that you would pair your iPhone and Nav IV together, and then also pair your iPhone and SMH10 togther? (You wouldn't pair the Nav IV and the SMH10). There are 2 reasons that won't work. One is the iPhone (non rooted) won't pair to 2 different devices simultaneously. Also, I think you are misunderstanding how the phone see's the GPS and the SMH10 as pair items. When you pair your iPhone or any phone to a GPS its seeing that GPS as a Handsfree device so its passing its phonebook and its phone audio to the GPS. That means, that it can't pair with another headset (SMH10) at the same time. If you try to turn around and then pair the iPhone with the SMH10 (even phone only) its going to use the same profile it used to pair with the Nav IV meaning you'll have a conflict and one of them won't connect. It will just depend on which one grabs the profile first that actually connects.

    Now if we continue with your first step of the iPhone paired to the GPS, the next logical step of this pairing would be to pair the GPS to the SMH10 in order to pass the audio from the phone through the GPS to your headset. In this case the GPS is a bridge between the phone and the headset. However, we already discussed this won't work due to the way the Zumo 660 will want to hog both profiles on the SMH10, even if you try a selective phone only pairing. On any other GPS out there, this would work fine, but not the Zumo660 (Nav IV).

    Yes, other wise it will try to grab the A2DP profile which could lead to a conflict of her being able to hear music from the SM10. Now if she wants to listen to her own music from her iPhone, then this would work fine.

    No, mobile phone pairing by default will have the iPhone pair with both the HFP & A2DP connections meaning there won't be another A2DP profile available for her to connect to listen to music from that source. Now, it is possible for the SMH10 to be paired to more than one device and dpending on the order you power them on determines how they connect. So say for instance she wants to hear music from the SM10 and only have phone connectivity to the iPhone. By powering on the SM10 first along with the SMH10 these 2 devices will connect first using the A2DP profile. Then after that if she powers on or "turns on the BT" on the iPhone, it should attempt to only connect with the HFP profile for phone use since the A2DP is in use. If she wants to listen to music from her iPhone instead, then the SM10 would need to be powered off and that would allow her iPhone to connect its music profile. This is all in theory and some devices do okay like this, but others constantly have issues. Its really trial and error to see if this works as I wrote.

    As I said above, you can't answer calls through the Nav IV without having both the iPhone & your SMH10 paired to it and that doesn't work with your setup.
    #56
  17. Dasadab

    Dasadab Been here awhile

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    Thanks for pointing out my error with the below step. I will just pair the iphone to the Nav PHONE option and forget the SMH10 step. I understand that now.

    "Pair my iphone to the BMW Nav IV for PHONE on the NavIV menu and, on the SMH10, pair using HFP for Phone Call Only--called Phone Selective Pairing (Sena User's Guide, 7.2). Don't attempt to pair anything with the AUDIO pairing option on the NavIV."


    Okay, Here is my hopefully final summary:

    SM10 hardwired to BMW audio system for music

    Pair both SMH10's to the SM10 for music, using Media Selective Pairing setting on SMH10s (Sena User's Guide, 7.1).

    Pair my iphone to the BMW Nav IV for PHONE on the NavIV. Don't attempt to pair anything with the AUDIO pairing option on the NavIV.

    On my wife's iPhone pair to her SMH10 using HFP (Phone Call Selective Pairing).

    Last, I would pair the SMH10s to each other for intercom use.

    Good to go? I thank you so much for your very helpful replies.
    Dean
    #57
  18. danham

    danham Been here awhile

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    Dean,

    I think you are closing in on success. I don't own a Nav IV, but I do know that it is basically a zumo 660. However, it uses different firmware and some of its functions are different, so you will have to experiment.

    To that end, if things are not working, the very first step I would take is to remove the Nav IV from the loop, meaning turn off its Bluetooth. That way you can get everything working except the iPhone setup via Nav IV. IF all of that works, then you need to decide whether to skip the Phone Book/Caller ID functions (the only real reason to pair an iPhone with a zumo) and use your SMH-10s to handle cell phone duties.

    For me, turning off BT on the zumo made a world of hurt go away [g].

    -dan
    #58
  19. Dasadab

    Dasadab Been here awhile

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    Thank you all so very much. I will let you know if it doesn't work. BTW, I read on bmwlt.com that there is supposedly new bike firmware that improves the BT system. The existing system produces music quality that is poor, aside from stability problems.
    Dean
    #59
  20. danham

    danham Been here awhile

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    I wasn't even going to open that can of tubular, slimy creatures, but yes, using speaker-level outputs from an audio system as line level inputs on your SM-10 is likely to result in less than concert hall sound. Obviously you will need to fiddle with volume on the BMW end to avoid distortion or hiss, at the very least.

    -dan
    #60