How do you check if the alternator is functioning properly.

EnderTheX · Jan 12, 2015

CycleDoc59 said: ↑

Note that if you switch out the rectifier/regulator when the bike is new, or with low miles, it's very likely there will never be a stator problem...
Click to expand...

Cool! Well I recently had my alternator replaced under warranty for the SECOND time and I haven't ridden my bike much since them (been getting into dirt biking too much).

This mod may help me justify keeping the bike as my around town bike for the future instead of worrying about another burnt stator...

I didn't get to read the entirety of the other threads I saw about this kind of mod. Someone mentioned something about making sure this works with the ABS system?

70East · Jan 12, 2015

CycleDoc59 said: ↑

I did replace it, but the real upgrade was installing
a Compu-Fire 55402 rectifier. This allows the
stator to adjust output as necessary. The stock
rectifier runs the stator wide open all the time,
and cooling is not sufficient for it to survive.
-The Buell 1125r has exactly the same problem.
Click to expand...

Do you know if there is an internal difference between the 55402 and the 55403.

CycleDoc59 · Jan 12, 2015

70East said: ↑

Do you know if there is an internal difference between the 55402 and the 55403.
Click to expand...

The 55403 just has a special weather proof connector... As none
of the supplied connectors (plugs) are used, it makes no diff. Instead,
cut off the original bike plugs/wires, and solder to the new unit wires...
DO NOT USE any sort of quick connector, crimp connector/etc...

CycleDoc59 · Jan 12, 2015

EnderTheX said: ↑

Cool! Well I recently had my alternator replaced under warranty for the SECOND time and I haven't ridden my bike much since them (been getting into dirt biking too much).

This mod may help me justify keeping the bike as my around town bike for the future instead of worrying about another burnt stator...

I didn't get to read the entirety of the other threads I saw about this kind of mod. Someone mentioned something about making sure this works with the ABS system?
Click to expand...

There is no connection at all from the charging system to anything but
the battery. ABS is sensitive to battery voltage, so when a stator or
other part of the charging system starts to fail, voltage may be too low
to allow the ABS system to set or function....

Now, CompU-Fire is not the only series-type rectifier out there, it's just
the one I chose.... The only thing that is important is choosing one that
is series type, and is at least equal to the output of the stator. The one I used is 40 amp.

Even when switching to a series-type rectifier, it would be wise to wrap the
pipes where they pass under the stator....

bubbabeemer · Jan 19, 2015

At the risk of blowing this thing out of proportion my 2009 F800GS with 30K miles just fried its stator. Thought I would replace it with a Ricks model 21-023 stator. Is the consensus that Ricks is as good as any?
Also my rotor is held in place with 3 socket head bolts. There are holes for 3 more. The IPB list calls for 6 bolts. Am I missing some?
Please advise. Thank You

itsatdm · Jan 19, 2015

My 2009 stator died at 28,000 miles. I have 6,000 on Ricks replacement. He advertises higher heat resistant wires. It has a 1 year warranty. It is plug and play. A few of his have died, but they are as good or better than any other.

There are only 3 bolts holding it on, just like in the repair manual. The only difficulty I had was removing one of the two screws that hold the wiring bracket in place. The manual calls for locking those screws with Locktite 243, a high heat version.

Not at your local hardware store but available on the net. There is a huge swing in the asking price, but available for less than $10.

CycleDoc59 · Jan 19, 2015

bubbabeemer said: ↑

At the risk of blowing this thing out of proportion my 2009 F800GS with 30K miles just fried its stator. Thought I would replace it with a Ricks model 21-023 stator. Is the consensus that Ricks is as good as any?
Also my rotor is held in place with 3 socket head bolts. There are holes for 3 more. The IPB list calls for 6 bolts. Am I missing some?
Please advise. Thank You
Click to expand...

Ricks has good products, as do others, but.....
As I have posted before, the primary problem leading to stator failure
is the rectifier. If the stator is replaced, there is still a good chance
the new stator will also fail, if that shunt-type el-chepo rectifier is
left in place. It should be replaced with a series-type. Also, a portion
of the heat cooking the stator comes from the pair of exhaust pipes right under.
It would be wise to wrap those pipes with heat tape....

If the rectifier were replaced at low mileage, and the pipes wrapped, it
is quite likely there would be virtually no stator failures..

sarathmenon · Jan 19, 2015

I got the SH847AA in the mail today. This thing is huge. Looking over the dimensions for the FH020AA, this is easily 10mm more on each side. At it's widest, it's 120mm, the bolt pattern is 100mm. I eyeballed the installation in the dark, I don't think there is space to fit this in the stock location - the space between the frame and the stator cover is 110mm at it's narrowest, which is the exact size of the SH847.

I'll have to think of some other location where this can go. Maybe if I remove the stock RR with it's wiring, I'll have a better idea. Maybe an angled mount might work. Something to do this weekend if I don't go snowboarding.

CycleDoc59 · Jan 20, 2015

sarathmenon said: ↑

I got the SH847AA in the mail today. This thing is huge. Looking over the dimensions for the FH020AA, this is easily 10mm more on each side. At it's widest, it's 120mm, the bolt pattern is 100mm. I eyeballed the installation in the dark, I don't think there is space to fit this in the stock location - the space between the frame and the stator cover is 110mm at it's narrowest, which is the exact size of the SH847.

I'll have to think of some other location where this can go. Maybe if I remove the stock RR with it's wiring, I'll have a better idea. Maybe an angled mount might work. Something to do this weekend if I don't go snowboarding.

Click to expand...

I avoid that type of rectifier because of the plug-in arangment. It wastes space, can be iffy to connect, and provides a place for bad connections to occur. I'd stick with the ones that have the wires attached, like CompU-Fire.

JRWooden · Jan 20, 2015

bubbabeemer said: ↑

At the risk of blowing this thing out of proportion my 2009 F800GS with 30K miles just fried its stator. Thought I would replace it with a Ricks model 21-023 stator. Is the consensus that Ricks is as good as any?
Also my rotor is held in place with 3 socket head bolts. There are holes for 3 more. The IPB list calls for 6 bolts. Am I missing some?
Please advise. Thank You
Click to expand...

I personally would go with the electrosport unit, but I have no hard data to back that up, just several conversations with one of the head dudes at Electrosport that gave me some confidence that they had thought about what the problem was with the OEM unit and tried to address the shortcomings....

http://www.electrosport.com

Kyle Wood is the Sales manager there - nice guy.

CycleDoc59 · Jan 20, 2015

JRWooden said: ↑

I personally would go with the electrosport unit, but I have no hard data to back that up, just several conversations with one of the head dudes at Electrosport that gave me some confidence that they had thought about what the problem was with the OEM unit and tried to address the shortcomings....

http://www.electrosport.com

Kyle Wood is the Sales manager there - nice guy.
Click to expand...

Yes...but ONLY if their rectifier is a SERIES type, which is
not mentioned in the ad. If it is the same shunt type as originally
installed, there is no improvement. They do mention how the heat-sink
portion is better, which indicates a shunt type. The series variety barely
get warm....

sarathmenon · Jan 20, 2015

CycleDoc59 said: ↑

I avoid that type of rectifier because of the plug-in arangment. It wastes space, can be iffy to connect, and provides a place for bad connections to occur. I'd stick with the ones that have the wires attached, like CompU-Fire.
Click to expand...

I hear you on that, but there aren't a lot of choices when it comes to series rectifiers. The compufire was meant for harleys - their customer support refuses to warranty non-Harley applications and there have been some documented failures in the amazon reviews and a few forum posts. Then there is the CE605SB which works great, and there is the polaris OEM Shindengen SH775. The VStrom rectifier is a great fit in theory. The F800 and the VStrom have an identical rev range, the DL1000 alternator is rated for 480W and both are touring bikes. Given all things, I trust that the japanese have done their home work.

There is the problem of size, but it should be easy to solve. I am waiting on the Triumph connector cable anyway, once it arrives, I'll have a better idea of the size I need. There has to be space on the bike where I can shove this into

CycleDoc59 · Jan 20, 2015

sarathmenon said: ↑

I hear you on that, but there aren't a lot of choices when it comes to series rectifiers. The compufire was meant for harleys - their customer support refuses to warranty non-Harley applications and there have been some documented failures in the amazon reviews and a few forum posts. Then there is the CE605SB which works great, and there is the polaris OEM Shindengen SH775. The VStrom rectifier is a great fit in theory. The F800 and the VStrom have an identical rev range, the DL1000 alternator is rated for 480W and both are touring bikes. Given all things, I trust that the japanese have done their home work.

There is the problem of size, but it should be easy to solve. I am waiting on the Triumph connector cable anyway, once it arrives, I'll have a better idea of the size I need. There has to be space on the bike where I can shove this into
Click to expand...

Sure, virtually everything has some sort of failure rate.
F800 owners have had Electosport stators fail, not likely because of "bad" stators,
but due to the improper type of rectifier..I'm not pushing
the ComU-Fire unit. I was simply familiar with them because of work on Harleys.

The shunt type units have worked for decades on most bikes. But with
more compact engines and high output charging systems, bikes
are eating stators because of excess heat that's not dealt with properly.
I had a Buell 1125r, which suffered from the exact same problem. Note that
the engine was also a Rotax.

The solution was simple, install the more expensive series type units, but
due to lack of testing or excess bean counting, Rotax specified the el-chepo unit.
BMW, with head in sand, has come up with an expensive, unnecessary new flywheel (rotor)
as a (maybe) solution. Do they not know that series rectifiers exist?

Anyway, when choosing a new series type unit, be sure to choose one
rated for the output of the stator. The one I installed is a 40 amp unit.

GETTHUMPER2 · Jan 20, 2015

sarathmenon said: ↑

I got the SH847AA in the mail today. This thing is huge. Looking over the dimensions for the FH020AA, this is easily 10mm more on each side. At it's widest, it's 120mm, the bolt pattern is 100mm. I eyeballed the installation in the dark, I don't think there is space to fit this in the stock location - the space between the frame and the stator cover is 110mm at it's narrowest, which is the exact size of the SH847.

I'll have to think of some other location where this can go. Maybe if I remove the stock RR with it's wiring, I'll have a better idea. Maybe an angled mount might work. Something to do this weekend if I don't go snowboarding.

Click to expand...

Hi Sarathmenon,,,,if you can return this R/R for a refund,I would, I will tell you why>>>>>>the SH in the prefix of the model # indicates that this is still a "shunt style" regulator, this is not an upgrade in performance or reliability. The best way to go to date whith a 3 phase-permanent-magnet charging system is to use a Series-type regulator/rectifier, this is the only type of circuitry that will reduce stator operating temperatures and increase the stator lifespan, also it will reduce /eliminate voltage spikes, the regulation is extremely smooth and consistent at about 14.1 volts regardless of load.
I would recommend a CycleElectric model CE-605.
The one from Compufire has also received GOOD feedback from many users, the advantage of going with a CE-605 from Roadstercycle is that you get Excellent post purchase support as well as a warranty. The people at Compufire will only warranty an installation on a Harley Davidson and I found the WORST customer service and support ever in my life from the folks who run this company, could not even get a phone call returned after more than a week of leaving a ridiculous amount of messages and E-mails.
Best Regards,
THUMPER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

sarathmenon · Jan 20, 2015

GETTHUMPER2 said: ↑

Hi Sarathmenon,,,,if you can return this R/R for a refund,I would, I will tell you why>>>>>>the SH in the prefix of the model # indicates that this is still a "shunt style" regulator, this is not an upgrade in performance or reliability. The best way to go to date whith a 3 phase-permanent-magnet charging system is to use a Series-type regulator/rectifier, this is the only type of circuitry that will reduce stator operating temperatures and increase the stator lifespan, also it will reduce /eliminate voltage spikes, the regulation is extremely smooth and consistent at about 14.1 volts regardless of load.
I would recommend a CycleElectric model CE-605.
The one from Compufire has also received GOOD feedback from many users, the advantage of going with a CE-605 from Roadstercycle is that you get Excellent post purchase support as well as a warranty. The people at Compufire will only warranty an installation on a Harley Davidson and I found the WORST customer service and support ever in my life from the folks who run this company, could not even get a phone call returned after more than a week of leaving a ridiculous amount of messages and E-mails.
Best Regards,
THUMPER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Click to expand...

Thumper - thanks. You've said exactly the same thing plenty of others have about the Compufire unit When it works, it's great, but don't count on customer support. I will probably return the SH847 if it becomes too difficult to fit.

I think the SH sequence in Shindengen stands for SCR RRs. If you look at their product catalog, the polaris series RR is SH775, along with claims of new models in development. The 480W alternator of the DL1000 fits in with the 50A series RR that they have marked as still in development. If you look at the marketing speak Suzuki gave on the new model launch, they say the 2014 features a " new open-type rectifier that cuts the magneto when not generating electricity, reducing mechanical losses and gives increased low and mid-range torque" Link. That's a series rectifier, and there is some research on triumphrat where they figured that this is a true series rectifier.

GETTHUMPER2 · Jan 20, 2015

sarathmenon said: ↑

Thumper - thanks. You've said exactly the same thing plenty of others have about the Compufire unit When it works, it's great, but don't count on customer support. I will probably return the SH847 if it becomes too difficult to fit.

I think the SH sequence in Shindengen stands for SCR RRs. If you look at their product catalog, the polaris series RR is SH775, along with claims of new models in development. The 480W alternator of the DL1000 fits in with the 50A series RR that they have marked as still in development. If you look at the marketing speak Suzuki gave on the new model launch, they say the 2014 features a " new open-type rectifier that cuts the magneto when not generating electricity, reducing mechanical losses and gives increased low and mid-range torque" Link. That's a series rectifier, and there is some research on triumphrat where they figured that this is a true series rectifier.
Click to expand...

Hi Sarath,,,it has been awhile since I was diving into all the mire of regulator/rectifiers,,,obviously things have changed in nomenclature with respect to how Shindengen designates the models.
It used to be that "SH" did in fact mean "SCR-diodes" were in play and that "FH" designated a MOSFET circuit was being used and it was common knowledge that this was a much more efficient circuit and would therefore run cooler therefore being less prone to failure and experience reduced regulator related voltage losses, however, both were still utilizing "shunt" style regulation, this is to say that at a preset voltage threshold, the regulator would "short-circuit" the Phases of the stator to control voltage( think Rheostat-current-control), and it was this that would cause the stator to run hot, essentially turning the coils into "toaster elements".
A "Series-style" regulator would simply disconnect the phases in series to control voltage to a preset threshold( think "pulse-wave-modulation" here with extremely rapid duty cycles), this is why the stator would run cooler and be more efficient

JRWooden · Jan 20, 2015

CycleDoc59 said: ↑

Yes...but ONLY if their rectifier is a SERIES type, which is
not mentioned in the ad. If it is the same shunt type as originally
installed, there is no improvement. They do mention how the heat-sink
portion is better, which indicates a shunt type. The series variety barely
get warm....
Click to expand...

CD59 I agree that the shunt R/R is crap, but was just answering the question of which replacement stator to buy if one was needed due to OEM failing and not wanting to spend $1,000 on the OEM replacement "kit" ....

I do think the series R/R is the way to go. I did NOT use the CompuFire, instead I did this about 10K miles ago:

 http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=890729

I have about 45K miles on my bike and still have OEM stator (2009 model bike)

GETTHUMPER2 · Jan 21, 2015

JRWooden said: ↑

CD59 I agree that the shunt R/R is crap, but was just answering the question of which replacement stator to buy if one was needed due to OEM failing and not wanting to spend $1,000 on the OEM replacement "kit" ....

I do think the series R/R is the way to go. I did NOT use the CompuFire, instead I did this about 10K miles ago:

 http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=890729

I have about 45K miles on my bike and still have OEM stator (2009 model bike)


Click to expand...

Hi JR,,,,,,,,I am also in the CE-605 camp as you already know, and have nothing but PRAISE for the unit and my vendor, Jack @ RoadsterCycle.
I installed it on 10/21/13 about 18,000 miles ago..........it is still regulating flawlessly, and more importantly, my CHEAP-CHINESE-KNOCK-OFF stator is still "charging like a champ", would have been through at least 1 or 2 replacements by now with the shunt style Shindegen R/R.
All the best,
THUMPER>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

sarathmenon · Feb 14, 2015

I finally got down to measuring and figuring out where to attach the SH847. This thing is huge, easily more than twice the size of the stock RR. I can get this to fit in only at an angle. It can be securely attached with a bracket, but the top part of it will stick out a bit outside the frame. On the center stand, I did some rough approximation of my posture to see how this will fair. In normal riding, there should be no contact. If I am leaning forwards, then there is a slight contact from my boots on the top of the RR.

So how hot do these things go in actual riding? I'd like to keep it outside so that it can be air cooled, but at the same time, I am not looking for a leg oven There is some place inside, on the right top of the shock mount (I forgot to click pictures), but there is very little air flow in there. Of course I can admit defeat and go with the SH775 or the CB605, but what's the fun in that

Comparison picture: Adding the connectors adds another 13-14mm to the total length:

JRWooden · Feb 14, 2015

I'm not familiar with that P/N but if it is a "SHUNT" unit it WILL get hot.........

If it is a SERIES style like the 605 it will barely get warm...

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