09 F8GS 35Kw wheelie troubles

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Spikee, Jan 27, 2015.

  1. GeeK_InsiDe

    GeeK_InsiDe Moore Gas!!!

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    Good idea, you'll explain that to your insurance company when you'll have a crash.
    #21
  2. Spikee

    Spikee Adventurer

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    Indeed.
    The 15 tooth gear has been ordered. If I don't like it than I just switch back.
    #22
  3. 97707

    97707 addicted to placebos Super Supporter

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    Us folks in the non metric US of A aren't familiar with measuring horsepower in kilowatts. Okay, maybe we need to convert and do what the rest of the world is doing. But if my conversion chart here is right 35 kw equals 47 hp.

    Say what? :huh

    You buy into a bike with an advertised rating of 85 hp and then you let the gumment bozones make you scrub about half that back off. Really? Why?

    Might as well just buy a 500cc bike that comes with 47 hp stock.

    And I don't see where the case can be made its about safety. An underpowered machine is just as dangerous as an overpowered machine. At 85 hp an F800 is not overpowered. This looks a lot like another case of over reaching by the (expletive deleted) who make up rules.

    They all need to be spanked and sent off to go get a real job.


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    #23
  4. africadero

    africadero ronny-king

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    If you're in vijlen, you can go for a coffee in '' boskaffee Het Hijgend Hert'':rofl
    #24
  5. gbtw

    gbtw Been here awhile

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    Hes a new rider, wanting to do wheelies :lol3 how does it not make sense to limit him in power :lol3

    Ts http://mv-wintelre.nl/ has a 90 km legal offroad ride each year you might be interested in.
    #25
  6. GR3Y

    GR3Y Wanderer

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    Regulations here in Europe require you to get "experience (read time you have your driving licence) before you can upgrade to more hp, this is to limit accidents, but if you ask me the current regulations with 3 hp classes is mostly bs:huh
    #26
  7. 97707

    97707 addicted to placebos Super Supporter

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    Ah. So he gets his horsepower back after probation is over?

    I still wouldn't like it. If they limited you to a light bike made with 47 hp, okay. But governing down a 500 lb bike isn't a smart safety measure. What happens when you need to pass a slow truck going up a mountain road and you don't have the power?

    Piffle. I wonder what the device looks like they use.

    But thanks for clearing that up for us.


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    #27
  8. sarathmenon

    sarathmenon Armchair Adventurer

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    This is why the KTM Duke 390 exists. The power and torque are comparable to big bikes, but they made it entirely around that regulation. If only they would make a dual sport version of it.

    Also, 47 hp isn't slow. It's plenty to overtake most vehicles out there if you are in the correct gear. Sure it's slower compared to the 150hp adventure bikes, but if I was starting to ride, I would prefer something that won't land me into too much trouble. 47hp is probably good enough for 80-90mph, and I'd argue that most people don't need more speed or grunt, especially when starting out.
    #28
  9. 97707

    97707 addicted to placebos Super Supporter

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    I wonder how long they want you to have your license before they'll let you ride around on the Gunbus?

    [​IMG]
    #29
  10. dpm

    dpm Been here awhile

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    Answered already. Restricted F bikes have a different throttle cam. Some years, it's a compete throttle body swapout, others have both cams moulded as a single piece and you just shift the cable into a different groove. There's pics around here if you have a search...


    As for 47hp being somehow hazardous? BS. Learning to ride a slower machine improves control as it's not just squirt-n-brake. You gotta consider your surroundings and corner speed is king!
    #30
  11. Spikee

    Spikee Adventurer

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    I have driven restricted bikes and unrestricted bikes on the road while I had motorcycle lessons. The unrestricted bikes are easier to ride because of the increased torque. When doing driving lessons the unrestricted and restricted bikes are the same model.

    Due to the difficult rules you cannot restrict an R6/R1 for example.
    the original power must max be 2x the restricted power (2x max 35Kw) = 93.8HP and the restricted power to weight ratio must be < 0.2kw/ orig. wet weight. ( < 0.268HP / kg) else your bike does not comply with the rules.

    Some countries give A1 license "free" when doing the car driving test , most countries don't. I'm also pretty sure that in germany the <0.2KW / wet weight is not implemented by law.
    -----------
    After two years of "riding experience" I have to do another road driving test on a bike that is a minimum of 55HP or so ...

    I changed the front sprocket to 15 tooth and it now auto wheelies in 1 gear and is pretty "floaty" when you go full throttle in second gear.

    Just what I wanted! The increased torque on my restricted bike really makes it feel alive now.

    I also made a recording of it with my gopro. Note I'm not really wheelying or whatsoever , just trying it out.
    #31
  12. 97707

    97707 addicted to placebos Super Supporter

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    Spikee,

    Can you say what your top speed is with the restriction device on. Throttle cable cam or whatever it is.

    Can you say what it did to the bike's acceleration compared to a stock bike?

    Does it limit the rpm the motor is able to get up to, or just the amount of air/ fuel mix to the intake?



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    #32
  13. dpm

    dpm Been here awhile

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    loosen your throttle cable so there's loadsa play in it, and take your bike for a run. That's what it feels like.
    #33
  14. GR3Y

    GR3Y Wanderer

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    Yep that is true but before he gets his hp back he even has to pass a new driving test.........

    Wel obviously you dont need to pass a slow truck going up mountain :deal :ricky
    #34
  15. GR3Y

    GR3Y Wanderer

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    If you get your licence at 24 or above or if you have walked through all the 3 licences.
    #35
  16. Spikee

    Spikee Adventurer

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    -16 tooth 35kW around 180km/h
    -I think it is pretty much the same ?
    I.E. limited torque is 70Nm vs 82Nm stock 16 tooth
    -It is a "dumb" throttle cable limiter, I still can go to redline

    With the 15 tooth it auto wheelies in 1th above 5-6K rpm and in second it is really light (if you do clutch wheelie or whatever it comes up really easy).

    The pull will be really crazy if you put 15 tooth on a stock bike :eek1

    I drove the bike "unlimited" when I bought it, from my memory it wasn't (that much) faster.

    The crazy thing with EU law is that with a international driving licence I am allowed to drive full power bikes , but it is not valid in the country you live in. So if i go to Belgium with my intl. driving licence I can drive a s1000rr legally and be insured while doing it.
    This is because the intl. driving license does not support 3 categories only one.

    Here is a drossel of a F800R:
    Before:
    [​IMG]
    After:
    [​IMG]
    They use a metal plate to extra limit the throttle body movement.

    I drove the bike off road yesterday and it was awesome!
    Just a muddy farming road with a whole lot of potholes with water standing in them.
    I just did the same thing I would do when mountenbiking , stand up , put a bit of weight at the back and control the throttle.

    The only thing i noticed was that the clutch lever is quite difficult to handle while standing up.
    Probably my height of 1M90 has an influence on that. Any good and affordable adjustable clutch handles on the market?

    The traction of a center worn out (~1mm left) battle-wing tyre quite surprises me on and off road in cold weather and in rain (32F / 0 C).

    It kinda suck that my bike is in such good physical condition. It is a 09 mode but it looks like a year old bike.
    Would be disappointed if i ruined by dropping it off road.


    I drive my bike in all weather, rain, sunshine windy cold or hot and I love it.
    One thing that I really recommend people doing is buying a good all season motorcycle suit.

    I use the HELD Carese II jacket , HELD TORNO II pants, HELD RACE TEX gloves
    This combination works in 35 C temps down to -1 C. It does not matter if it is raining fking hard for hours or what.
    The gore-tex keeps you completely dry. I did my driving test with this gear and it was raining really hard for hours. I was perfectly dry and I wasn't cold at all.

    When it gets hot just remove the gore-tex jacket and pants. Open up all the ventilation thingies and you won't be hot while moving on the bike.

    The gloves are excellent as well. It has two compartments dry and breezy. Both the breezy and dry compartment work fine with the f800gs heated grips. Just put them on max and you will be able to ride for hours in 0 deg C / 32F weather without getting cold fingers. When using the schulbert src system you need to put one glove in the breezy compartment. Else you wont be able to feel the buttons.

    The gear is not cheap but if you look for deals it is certainly worth it.
    For EU users -> order the stuff at louis moto and register as a business. You will be able to get 20-50% savings off the consumer price. (your account will be closed after a year if you don't order over 1500 euro or so)
    A lot of dutch moto driving schools have accounts there and give the card to students so they can get cheap and good gear.

    I hope the weather gets a bit better soon so I will be able to do my first long trip to my neighboring countries.

    At the moment I'm looking at what back tyre I will buy next, the current one is done on the middle and sometimes likes to slide a bit on certain cold road surfaces.

    The front tyre is still pretty much new, the back one is done. They are Bridgestone Battlewings and I'm pretty pleased with them for road and light offroad use. But I want to go deeper in forest and other off road placed and my feeling is that the battlewings will struggle with gravel / mud plugging up the thread.

    The Heidenau K60 Scout looks like a nice one. To bad you can't just try them out :)

    The last comment for today.
    I really like how the bike handles when losing grip on or off-road. It is easy to stay balanced and it does not want to trow you off.
    When I passed my driving licence I had to drive back on the 25Kw yamaha xj6 in the heavy rain.
    Driving out of the roundabout I (had to) drive over a painted surface of road and the back really slipped sideways but I was able to hold the bike with not to much trouble. I tried this "manoeuvre" a few times with the f800 but it seems that 1 it is much more controllable and 2 it has much more grip in those situations.

    I have a recording of the 15 tooth setup, but due to it being dark not to much of the road / speedo is visible and the gopro kinda fucked up the syncing of my external mic sound.

    I will make a new (decent) recording this weekend probably (0-100 km/h , -> redline all gears (except 6th depending on weather) and a little bit off "adventure" riding.
    #36
  17. GeeK_InsiDe

    GeeK_InsiDe Moore Gas!!!

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    So you'll be wet if it's hot and raining as hell :D. Or you'll be sweating in your Goretex liner :D. That was the problem with my Alpinestars Durban Goretex liner suit. Plus when it's raining the suit is full of water and takes hours to dry.

    Well for the price of the Held jacket you can have a laminated gore-tex pro and better vented jacket like a Badlands Pro. Plus you can now find Klim gear easily in EU :evil

    Have fun with your bike ;)

    / my 2 cents
    #37
  18. 97707

    97707 addicted to placebos Super Supporter

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    Right, no need to pass a slow truck, ever. Or at least not until you do.

    But seriously, the whole program sounds unnecessarily complicated and burdensome for the bike owner. And, from here anyway, its hard to see how it does a lot for safety or accident prevention.

    Yes it may be more difficult for a novice rider to handle a big bike rather than a smaller bike. But it doesn't make sense that letting them have an underpowered big bike is any kind of good compromise.



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    #38
  19. Spikee

    Spikee Adventurer

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    The liner is a rain jacket in it self. It fits under the buddy so if it raining hard while it is hot than you can just put that on.

    I drive in reasonable rain while not using any gore-tex and it deals with it fine.

    I wore the klim stuff in the shop and I did not feel that it was better t.b.h.
    But everyone has their own taste and their own money to spend =)

    And at 500 euro (jacket,pants,gloves) vs 1400 euro (just the klim jacket) it is not a bad deal.

    tbh ~ 35Kw / 48HP is all you need as it is plenty fast for legal road use and it has enough torque for normal riding.
    But just like with cars 50HP is probably all you need but it is nice to know that you have 160+ HP at your disposal.

    In 2013 you would have gotten the A licence for free after 2 years experience with A2 license. Now it requires a driving test.
    I have to agree that the program is useless. Putting people on 125CC 11KW bikes on highways is really dangerous!
    They are just to slow for (100-140Km/h) highway speeds thus take ages to even overtake a truck.

    From next year on the Netherlands requires new riders to do soooo many driving tests that it is really ridiculous.
    AM for scooter 50CC (used to get that free with driving licence)
    B for car (MAX 3500KG , max trailer weight 750kg (trailer weight + load)
    T licence for tractors and the works (used to be free for everybody that is 16 or up to drive 50000Kg (50 ton) combinations @ 50Km/h on the road with no tests/driving experience)
    BE license for trailers 750kg and up (cars)
    A1 125CC 11KW
    A2 35Kw (and the other requirements)
    A unlimited
    C,C1 , C1E , CE = (light) trucks with or without heavy trailers
    DE,D1E busses with or without heavy trailer
    And they are making up even more

    If one did AM,A1,A2,A,B and BE it would probably cost around 5-10K euro's

    There are pro and cons participating in the EU
    #39
  20. 97707

    97707 addicted to placebos Super Supporter

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    Spikee,

    Thanks for the reply.

    Where I live, we have interstate hiways and mountains. I want to have at least 90 mph for merging, even if the traffic is moving at 70. And I want power and acceleration to climb and pass. Maybe not in the Netherlands, but somewhere you may travel in the EU, you have autobahn and alpine roads . . . not so different.

    If you've ever driven something underpowered, like say a VW bus, you know what its like to build up a line of impatient cars behind you. Or to take way too long to get around a farm truck. Lack of power isn't a safety feature . . . its the opposite.

    So why mandate it?

    Or if, as you say, you don't notice any loss of speed or power . . . then what is the point in the first place?

    Just trying to understand.


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    #40