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10,000 Tracking Point Garmin Limit...How To Live With It!

Discussion in 'GPS 101 - Which GPS For Me' started by Wallowa, Dec 9, 2018.

  1. Wallowa

    Wallowa Diver Down

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    New to GPS's...old fart that is 'map and compass' oriented; now Garmin 680T user...recently used RideGPS to lay out dirt routes in Idaho and Montana...no problems this summer...exported from RGPS to my PC...copied that route file in "Downloads"...pasted into it into the Garmin Mass Storage "Garmin" "GPX" folder....then just 'followed the Magenta Line' on our routes...

    Now the problem...I went back to these routes recently and any over about four hundred miles are now truncated....only about 70% of the Magenta route is showing on the 680T...Yup, "Tracking Points" @ 10,000 maximum allowed by Garmin...tried creating new routes over 400 miles and all are now truncated at about 70% of the route created in RideGPS..

    #1 How and where are the Tracking Points created?

    #2 What exactly does the 10K tracking point limit mean?

    #3 How can I restore, work around a route showing 10K and truncated?

    #4 Are Tracking Points an accumulative total from all GPX routes in my Garmin?

    Sorry for long post...but I have tried deleting all created routes from GPX file and Track Manager on the 680T...no joy...still can't get long routes to once again show on my 680T.

    Thanks..Phil
    #1
  2. fjmartin

    fjmartin Been here awhile

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    I don't know the Montana series but I have a Zumo and trying to follow tracks on it sucks...They are too skinny to see when riding...so, I found this free tool called IMGfromGPX. You simply drop single or multiple GPX track files and/or waypoints into the tool and it will create a transparent Garmin map of your tracks. So you don't actually ever load the tracks on the Garmin, you just toss the .IMG (map) on the GPX in a folder called Map on your Micro-SD card and then once you turn on the device, make sure that map is active, along with whatever other map(s) you want. You'll see all the detail of your regular map and you'll get an overlay that looks a lot like how you had been following the magenta line previously. Additionally you can pick from various styles and colors for the tracks so you can have them stand out. I built a custom TYP file that is nice and wide and has arrows in it so I know which way to go. It has 8 colors so I can do things like have the main track I want to follow be blue, and then if there are options for hard or easy I make those tracks green or red. Works AWESOME and only takes a minute to setup and run. http://www.javawa.nl/imgfromgpx_en.html

    If you want my custom type files with the arrows, send me a private message with your email and I'll send them to you.

    Joe
    #2
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  3. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    I think the 10k track point limit only applies to tracks that you have selected to Show on Map.
    I have dozens of tracks loaded onto my 600 series unit. I am sure I have more than 10k points total.

    I have never had a problem with too many track points. I think you are only allowed to have 27 tracks selected to Show on Map.
    I have heard of friends having a problem with this. But I guess I have never had that many displayed.

    What track interval are you using?
    I find that 250 feet works okay for offroad stuff and .25 miles works okay for highways.
    I have friends who have the interval set to 1 ft. I don't think it makes much sense to have it set to less than about 25 ft, which is about the best accuracy one can get with the unit.

    If you have some tracks that have more than 10k points, you can load them into Basecamp and filter them down or maybe break them up if you really want whatever resolution you have.

    The Montana and many other handheld units have the ability to Navigate a track. This causes the track to appear on the screen as a bright wide magenta line which is a lot easier to see than the normal track line display. It also lets you display information like Distance to Destination in the dashboard.
    #3
  4. sieg

    sieg Wearing out tires......2 at a time, day after day. Supporter

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    In BaseCamp, right click the track, scroll down and left click "filter selected track...". A new window will open, under "filter" select "entire track", under "filter by" scroll down and select "maximum points" enter "10000" (or less), left click "OK". Now load the track to your GPS.
    #4
  5. Wallowa

    Wallowa Diver Down

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    Hey folks thanks for the help! The advice I got from Garmin this morning matches what you are saying. I will adjust my tracking point interval to match my needs for route details; which are off road routes. Thanks again...Phil

    "Contacted Garmin...person was patient and helpful...

    #1 Tracking Points are how often the satellite contacts my 680T to establish location. Currently set at 1 sec; but I have options to adjust that and reduce Tracking Points which in turn will reduce accuracy details on the route.

    #2 The 10K maximum Tracking Points is per [in my case] GPX file.

    My solution will be to break the longer routes into shorter connected routes to maximize the details displayed on my routes yet not cause a route display to truncate due to reach the 10K limit.

    I still don't have a clue why the same route when displayed on 680T last July was not truncated but is now truncated. Mystery of the universe I guess. :brow

    Phil'
    #5
  6. sieg

    sieg Wearing out tires......2 at a time, day after day. Supporter

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    I would do tracking points by distance not time. There's a lot of wasted points in the same spot when you stop for gas and lunch, or even at a stop light. I think I'm at 0.01 mile, about 50ft. that gives clear detail on turns.
    #6
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  7. Wallowa

    Wallowa Diver Down

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    Agreed, I found that only in Basecamp can I use "filter" and change route tracking point intervals on routes I create in RideGPS...I changed a route from last summer [did not then truncate...go figure] that was 13,504 TPs @ 1 sec to an interval of '200 feet' and the number of TPs dropped to 6,882...unless I am traveling at 200+mph and the 1 sec interval is goofy and unnecessary..will test out the best interval for my off road riding..of course depending if I am on my GSA or WR250R the speed may vary! :D

    When stopped, I have an "Auto Pause" that prevents addition TPs when I a stationary, once underway the TPs resume...

    Bit of a hassle going through Basecamp on each route to change interval but not really bad....

    Thanks again to all the input and information..

    Phil
    #7
  8. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    Good luck zeroing in on a solution. I had forgot that the 10k points was for each track.

    I personally prefer the Archive Daily option for my saving tracks. Early on I tried Archive Weekly or something and ended up losing a few days worth of precious one-of-a-kind tracks due to an error on my part. Archive Daily works well for me for saving tracks from rides even multi-day rides.

    I also prefer creating track points by interval, but I know others prefer Time and Auto.
    #8
  9. Wallowa

    Wallowa Diver Down

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    Assuming you are riding off road...what interval [distance] do you use? Does that change if on freeway [God forbide!]?

    I also have found with my riding buddies that we co-mingle "tracks" and "routes" to our confusion when discussing how we get where...the tracking points I am referring to are all points on an imported GPX route..

    Archiving daily makes sense but I am not certain what that accomplishes if 10K limit is for a single route and not for all routes in "Track Manager"...
    #9
  10. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    Off highway I use an interval of .05 miles which is about 250 ft. For highway riding I use .25 miles. I have different Profiles set for the two cases. Sometimes I forget to switch profiles, especially in going from dirt to highway.

    What archiving daily will do is possibly reduce the number of track points you get in the Current Track. This will be a big deal if you are on a multi-day ride. If you are archiving weekly and on a weeklong ride and producing 3k points per day, then your Current Track will fill up on the 4th day. If you archive daily then you will have a 3k point track for each day.

    It will not do anything to planned riding tracks that you load onto the Montana.

    You seem to be a little confused about the terms routes and tracks. Routes are completely different from tracks. A route is a file you create that just has a few via or waypoints and the Montana will automatically create a path along the roads it knows about. You can use the Where To function to activate the route so it shows up on the screen. Routes are normally created on a computer using Basecamp or some other software. But you can create them on the Montana. One normally does not associate track points with routes.
    #10
  11. Wallowa

    Wallowa Diver Down

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    Thanks actually I think, hope I am correct, that I understand the difference between a track and a route..one you leave and one you follow; and you can then follow tracks along your path, bread crumbs, once you lay them down...my routes are not created on Basecamp or the 680T...but are GPX route files created on RideGPS and then exported to my PC/Windows and then to my 680T and into my Track Manager which I then use for navigation.."following the magenta line".

    My 680T does not create the route, the RideGPS does and the 680T simply enters that imported GPX route on the selected maps I choose from those that are installed in my 680T.

    Because each of my routes is a stand alone GPX file and I can install I believe up to 200 of these and each one has a limit of 10K tracking points [page 4 of manual]. So multi day rides using multi routes will never truncate my routes if I keep each route file under 10K. For my use it seems that archiving daily makes sense only if I ride all the routes in the Track Manager in one day; otherwise I will have to go archive to retrieve routes for multi-day trips. Flip side is that archiving does clear out Track Manager so it is easier to find and open routes listed in Track Manager. Last Summer our 14 day backcountry trip involved at the most using two routes per day so I had perhaps 7 routes programmed into the Track Manager. Too much fiddling so I will probably go with "full"; but I have no idea what Archiving When Full means; what is full? 200 routes?

    Honestly I think the manual sucks. "A track is a recording of your path" [pg 3] and " A route is a sequence of waypoints or locations that leads you to your final destination." [pg6]. Both assume you are creating tracks as you go [track] or planning routes before you go [routes] and doing all this in the 680T or Basecamp. Not a correct assumption if you import routes from non-Garmin sources.

    Anyway, I could be wrong and I am just learning...so do appreciate the views and experiences of others.

    Thanks....Phil

    Ps...TP interval...tough to know ahead of time but 30 mph is about 40+ feet a sec...my off road speed is about that, so either with distance or time I will need to settle on an interval that gives me route info when I need it and not after I pass an intersection..decreasing screen magnification is also in that mix...
    #11
  12. fjmartin

    fjmartin Been here awhile

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    I've used RideWithGPS for years to create bicycle rides, and when you export the stuff you create in it, it offers a lot of formats which includes GPX route and GPX tracks.

    By default a GPX route will look something like this:
    route.JPG
    Notice how it created the blue flags which are VIA points and drew straight lines between them. Not super useful.

    If you export the file as a GPX track it would look like this:
    track.JPG
    It has the nice contours that follow the road when you created it using RideWithGPS. Also, no VIA Points.

    Now, you can take that original route with those VIA points and tell your GPS to calculate a route from VIA point to Via point. It didn't work when I had this basic map up. I then enabled City Navigator and told it to calculate and it looked like this:
    Calculated Route.JPG
    As you can see it calculated from VIA point to VIA point but you'll also notice that the route in the upper left looks a little weird compared to the track.
    #12
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  13. Wallowa

    Wallowa Diver Down

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    Appreciate this discussion but we are talking different languages...GPX files exported from RideGPS to my maps on the 680T do not look anything like what you depict in these map pictures, the RideGPX on my 100 or 24K maps [my call which I use] are detailed, exactly follow the dirt roads I select and are not straight line abbreviations of the route...again, I import GPX ROUTES that are devoid of flags or VIA points, whatever they are, no Basecamp involved...
    #13
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  14. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    it's always better, without basecamp
    #14
  15. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    Since you can see the files you import in Track Manager, most people, including Garmin, would call them tracks not routes.

    What fjmartin showed are what Garmin calls Routes. You can transfer them to the Montana and they show up under the Route Manager.

    Some day you will probably find a use for them. They are useful in planning trips for which you do not already have a track.
    #15
  16. Wallowa

    Wallowa Diver Down

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    Perhaps beating a dead horse here..my 680T does NOT have a "Route Manager" but only a "Track Manager"....again, the semantics are irrelevant; the function is what counts...but my 680T manual sez: "A track is a recording of your path" [pg 3] and " A route is a sequence of waypoints or locations that leads you to your final destination." [pg6]. To further muddy the water Garmin notes that "Tracking Points" are what establishes your position while you travel a Route. What I navigate on my rides by viewing maps opened in Routes within Track Manager, the Routes along which my 'Magenta' Line follows are imported GPX routes that were laid out/constructed in RideGPS then exported to my 680T. I assume you can, as shown, construct a Route in Basecamp which follows a course defined by inserted locations/points.

    Garmin in my manual, as described, considers a Route to be a series of waypoints or locations [?] that you follow ["leads you"] to your destination; as opposed to the "tracks" [points/'crumbs'] you leave ["recording"] as you travel to record your path. Once you lay in the Tracks and then you can use these Tracks to define/describe the Route connecting these Tracks. Tracks are footprints left as go and Routes are where they lead. In "Track Manager" there is a app [?] titled "Current Track" which drops location points/crumbs automatically as you move the 680T when GPS is on....these position markers then will describe a Route to whatever destination the 680T is taken to while turned on.

    OK..enough...just my take and I could be wrong....in the end if it meets our needs then it is working.

    Phil

    Ps...OK here is another mystery to me...If in "Filter" [Basecamp] you can set the interval of the Tracking Points along a Route and you can set it for a 'time' [ie.. 1sec] at what set speed does Garmin assume you are traveling? Without a set speed the 1 sec interval will reach the 10K limit [or any number of Tracking Points] at different points along the Route if the speed varies. The number of Tracking Points on a Route is established before you ride the Route, so what speed does Garmin believe you are riding? I can see if you set a distance interval; then at any point along the Route the number of Tracking Points can be calculated.
    #16
  17. wbbnm

    wbbnm Long timer

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    Sorry. You are right there is no explicit Route Manager on the Montana. You have to use the Where To and Route Settings commands to manage them.
    #17
  18. Wallowa

    Wallowa Diver Down

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    Hey, I am in the steep part of the learning curve and I learn from your views and those of others...there is no need for a "sorry"..we are just spit-wadding this...to better utilize our GPSs.

    I don't use "Where To" to develop or designate or follow Routes; nor does my 680T have a "Route Settings" that I know of...once I import the GPX [files?] Routes into Track Manager [folder?] I have no need to manage them but only follow the route designating magenta line after I press "Go" on my map screen...to modify a route I return to the saved "Routes" on RideGPS WebPage..
    #18
  19. EnduroRdr

    EnduroRdr Woods Racer & D/S Rider

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    I have a Garmin 60csx.
    I use mapsource on my old dell laptop.
    In mapsource you right click on your track choose properties.
    In that window you can select optimize track points - you can select the number of points say 10k or 500 or other number.

    The program has a smart algorithm that removes redundant point in a straight line but keeps more points in an arc (or turn).

    It works really well and will allow you to share tracks as small point count.

    My 60 series will save up to 10k points as I ride, but if I import from another file (like shared tracks from a group D/S ride, it will truncate if the imported file has more than 500 points.

    The solution is when I download the shared track (like off forums) that has over 500 points, then I open it in mapsource , select track properties, optimize for maximum 500 points.
    Now I can send it to my Garmin without getting a “truncate error”.

    It works very well. You can still show curves with plenty of detail but straight roads may show as lines with as much as a mile long between points. But on the map it doesn’t matter in a straight line anyway it works!
    Example: if you’re crossing Oklahoma on the TAT , there are straight sections for maybe 10 Miles that may only use up 15 or 20 points to cover those 10 Miles!

    This is a great tool enabling you to load long tracks like if loading several sections of TAT all on the same gps .
    #19
  20. Grinnin

    Grinnin Forever N00b Supporter

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    On my Montana 650, the track "Record Method" of "Auto" works for me. If I started getting files that were too large, I'd downgrade the "Interval".

    The "Auto" method records a point when speed or direction change. So long straights get fewer points and curves get more points.

    Does the 680 offer an "Auto" method and can you adjust the "Interval"? (The 650 has Most Often, More Often, Normal, Less Often, and Least Often.)

    When I do combine tracks into a large track, I do it in GpsPrune which offers a handful of ways to compress a track. It's easy to take a 4,000 point track and make a 400 point track that's every bit as easy to follow.
    #20