1966 Ducati 160 Monza Jr Rebuild

Discussion in 'Old's Cool' started by DesmoDog, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    IIRC I bought them at Mid-Ohio during the AMA's vintage motorcycle days in 2006? I'm very happy with them myself, and haven't found any like them since. I should have bought more than one...
    #21
  2. Rathlindri

    Rathlindri Guinness fan

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    373
    Location:
    Ireland
    Beautiful work of art....be proud of it!
    #22
  3. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Thanks. When I bought the bike I wasn't sure what to do with it, but somehow it became my main focus!

    Very little progress on it lately but I did manage to test fit the levers and switchgear. These aren't the grips I'll go with - I've got a pair with white rings on the flanges but they're not going on until it's done, for what I'm guessing are obvious reasons. Apparently I'm not going to have room for a mirror and/or a kill switch on the right side. I have mixed feelings about putting bar end mirrors on if for no other reason than I'd be cutting up the aforementioned grips to make them work. I could put the kill switch inboard of the miter, but that might look dorky. It didn't have one stock so do I really need one now? Hmm...

    [​IMG]

    On the right side, the throttle housing pushes the lever perch about an inch away from the end of the grip. If I put the grip and perch in the same relative position on the left side, it leaves about an inch gap between the two. I've never noticed this on these bikes before. I'm thinking that might be a good place for the mirror to mount? We'll see, I'll just have to play with it more. Putting the levers in different positions side to side to avoid a gap isn't going to fly though.

    [​IMG]

    I also have to find a place to put the tach. I'm thinking of fabbing up a mount that replaces the washer on the top fork bolt, which would put it in about the same spot as on the larger bikes. This would work, but... I've got another idea I'm mulling over.

    The tach would also fit in the headlight housing, where the speedo is now. For a speedo, I'm thinking of going with an electronic version that also shows temp, time, and distance. I realize this clashes with the vintage feel, but hear me out. I've been building the bike with giro events in mind. Assuming the unit would be legal in these events (it seemed like it would for the eastern giro when I checked last year) it'd be something I'd want anyway. Plus, the electronic speedo would save me from having to mess with drive ratios on my not-stock size wheels. The unit I'm considering is a Trail Tech Vector:

    http://www.trailtech.net/vector.html

    It would mount directly in front of/above the bars and top triple clamp. I think it could work but I haven't mocked it up yet to be sure. I'll have to do more homework on it.
    #23
  4. Zagando

    Zagando BMW uber alles!

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,000
    Location:
    EL18 Rockport, TX
    ...:evil But that tank sure is nice!:evil
    #24
  5. HapHazard

    HapHazard Waiting for Gudenov

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,188
    Location:
    Central CT
    Wow! This is great! My father bought a (very) used Monza Jr 160 in 1971 for about $200 - condition-wise, it didn't look much different than your first "before" pic (no nifty crash bar, but it did have a mid-mount exhaust headpipe fabricated from electrical conduit connectors). It was great fun to fix up, and more fun to ride, with a willing engine and surprisingly good handling. I think what you're doing is terrific! Well thought out and executed. Thanks for the memories!

    PS-You mentioned Bronco(?) a few posts back regarding the fender. I had a Ducati Bronco - it was a 125 pushrod motored lightweight, with much smaller lower-end cases than the 160 bevel motor. The Bronco was just a bit larger overall than the 2 stroke Ducati Cadet 100 (Dad had one of those, too). They had a problem with hard flywheel keys and soft crankshaft keyways...

    Keep up the good work!
    #25
  6. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Last weekend I was playing around with the tach and speedometer mounting on the 160. Two things I discovered were that A) older bikes came with a ring on the right hand fork cover to hold the speedometer cable and B) Domiracer had one of these covers in stock for a whopping $27. That solved one issue, so I was inspired to make a tach mount out of some aluminum I had sitting around. It's basically a copy of the mount the tach came with, modified so it fits on the top triple instead of the bars.

    Long story short, I'm not going to go with an electronic speedo just yet, I'm going to give the analog gauges a try first.

    [​IMG]

    Neither the tach nor the headlight shell are at the right angle in that shot but you get the idea. The cable is pressed up against the headlight mount, but there's more than enough room to mod the new fork cover to make it work.

    I've got cable supplies on their way from California and I've also heard rumors the repair on my engine case is done, so maybe, just maybe, I can start to make some REAL progress on this thing soon!
    #26
  7. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Wow, two months and I've got no progress to report here. Well, almost no progress. Here's the deal. I went on a parts buying spree for this bike and my 350. At least I tried to anyway.

    A couple places took a week or two to respond to inquires. One of them I can understand, he explained what was going on, I can deal with it... so I told him I wanted the parts in question and haven't heard from him since. That was a couple weeks ago.

    Another guy took a couple weeks to answer and gave no explanations why things took so long. Not a warm fuzzy feeling... I want to give you money, You took two weeks to tell me you had what I was looking for?

    I'm still waiting for the case half that is off being repaired... it was supposed to ship before Daytona, but didn't. I'm too embarrassed to tell you how long that part has been gone.

    Other parts now seem to be sold out everywhere I look. (I'm getting a little desperate for a front sprocket, it's thinner than the 250 version which everyone seems to carry...)

    I had fantastic results from Classic Ducati in the UK, so there was one shining spot... I now have an exhaust pipe and a muffler for it. (And a tach for my 350). I also cut out some rearset brackets along the way too. Woo Hoo!

    BUT... the frustration level in trying to get parts got pretty high. The final straw was when I ordered some carb parts. The place "Ships every day before 4:30". Um, no, they don't. They also provide "tracking numbers on all shipments". Um, no, not so much. So after waiting about four days for the things to ship, I finally sent an email and was told they were on the way. A few days later I came home to find a FedEx tag on the door telling me a box had been left by the door. Maybe they did leave it, but it wasn't there when I got home.

    The tracking showed the package came from the opposite side of the country from the carb place and was shipped two days after I was told the parts had gone out. No info regarding who it was from, but what else could it be? I contacted the supplier to see if these were in fact my parts. "Oh, yeah, that was us, we ship from blah blah blah... I'll get tracking info for you"

    Haven't heard from them since. Not that it matters since tracking info won't do jack for me now, but three strikes and you're out. you didn't ship when you said you would, you didn't send tracking info the first time, and you didn't follow up the second time when you said you would.

    I can't prove what happened to the box but let's just say that in the past some neighborhood kids have been known to "find" things that I've noticed are missing... Not the carb place's fault, I know, but the karma just wasn't there. Time for a break.

    So on the way home from the airport after dropping my wife off for a trip home I stopped by a guitar shop and spent the last of my toy money on an Ibanez AF75 and a Vox VT15. Hey, I had the house to myself, why not? I've been saying for about 30 years that "someday" I was going to buy a hollow body guitar and that day finally came. (and no, I don't know how to play, but I'm working on it)

    That was over a week ago and I haven't touched a bike since.

    Oh yeah, the last thing I did before my latest break was roll a 250 engine over to the bike and take a few measurements. It should fit... so this may end up as a 250 before it's all said and done. But it won't happen soon, my car decided to eat it's water pump yesterday and now I've got THAT mess to deal with. I hate cars.
    #27
  8. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Five months with zero progress.. but today I came home from work to find a box waiting for me... a box containing my long lost case half! Woo Hoo!

    Now that I have it back in working condition, I can (hopefully) get back to work on this thing. For now though I'll just add a few shots of the engine teardown and a hint on why I had to send the case half off to begin with.

    The heart of this powerful little beast - 160cc of Italin single cylinder fury.
    [​IMG]

    I had to take a pic of this. An open velocity stack on a 160cc single. What's not to like? Imagine this engine only much cleaner with a shiny pipe. Nice....
    [​IMG]

    Random thought: I recently bought a new lawnmower. Self propelled, walk behind. Nothing fancy. It's got a 160cc engine too. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

    On the bench. Pretty simple little engine, no? Dare I go so far as to say elegant? Wait until it's clean and shiny, you'll see.
    [​IMG]

    Other side with a few parts removed.
    [​IMG]

    By the way, if anyone knows where I can find a front sprocket for this thing, please let me know. I'm looking for a 16 tooth but I'm not picky at this point. And no, it's not the same as on a 250. The larger bike's sprocket will physically fit the output shaft, but it's too thick for the chain I'm using (a 420? I've forgotten now). One option is to shave down a thicker sprocket but I'd rather not do that.

    And right about here the ugliness begins. Can anyone spot the result of my not reading the service manual closely enough?
    [​IMG]

    Here's better view.
    [​IMG]

    That really clean spot is where the boss for the kickstart shaft was for about 40 years, until I started screwing with it. Yes, I broke the boss when I used the shaft as a brace for the clutch basket tool. DO NOT DO THIS. The manual warns against it. I glazed over that part. I paid the price so YOU don't have to!

    Thankfully this mistake has been repaired, so I can get back to working on the bike. I may post more engine pictures tomorrow but was so damn happy to get the case half back I just had to post something.
    #28
  9. Nixels

    Nixels Face fears - live life

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    9,373
    Location:
    East Bay, CA for now
    :waysad Too bad about that kickstarted learning curve. :uhoh

    But you got it fixed and now you're back in business! :clap :clap :clap

    Do you know about BevelHeaven? They might have a sprocket - or can tell you who might have it.

    Persevere! :pope

    :lol3
    #29
  10. Rightshiftrick

    Rightshiftrick Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Oddometer:
    124
    Location:
    New Hampshire- USA
    Man, this thread is an inspiration! Looking good. I love these old Ducati's. A few years ago I picked up a '64 250 Desmo motor and started hunting for a chassis, but that's been about it. Too many projects and not enough time or cash.

    Got to get out and do some more on the BSA.
    #30
  11. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Thanks for the comments.

    I do know about Bevel Heaven, I bought parts for my 750 rebuild there. He doesn't have too much stuff for the smaller singles though.

    RSR - if it's a '64 250 it's not a desmo, or at least wasn't from the factory. That's ok though, common thought says the path to more power starts with a springer head anyway. Desmo heads will bolt on to the springer engines but you really don't gain anything in the process, other than a much lighter wallet.

    Back to my 160... I thought I took more pictures of the engine teardown but I donp't have many! I guess breaking the boss took the fun out of it so I put the camera away and worked in the shadow of my shame? :shog

    Here are a few of the pre-break condition. I'll have to remember to take more as it goes back together.

    Notice how convenient the kickstart shaft is in relation to the clutch basket. This is a fragile area for narrowcase engines... do NOT use this shaft for anything other than holding the kickstart lever. The bosses are known to break even under their intended use.

    [​IMG]

    This shows the factory lead seal that is SO nice to find on a bevel Ducati as it generally indicates no ham fisted owner has gotten in there and screwed things up before you have a chance to. It's on the safety wire between the bottom rear two bolts holding the case together.

    [​IMG]

    This next shot shows where the "bevel" name comes from. See the bevel gear on the end of the tower shaft that goes up to the cam? The crank is the thing in the center, and the lower gear runs the ignition. A slot in that shaft spins the oil pump.
    [​IMG]

    And that, I'm afraid, is the last of the pics I have of the engine teardown. More later as it goes back together, but it may be awhile. I'm thinking I'll probably mock up the bottom end and put it in the frame so I can build the rearsets and brake/shift linkage.
    #31
  12. Rightshiftrick

    Rightshiftrick Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Oddometer:
    124
    Location:
    New Hampshire- USA
    Thanks for the info. I could be mistaken, PM sent.

    Can you recommend any good resources for these machines?

    RSR
    #32
  13. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    The best book I've found for general information is this one by Tom Bailey. You can buy it directly from him (or it's on Amazon, and Bevel Heaven too?)

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Note that those are both jpgs so you can't just click on the email address to go anywhere... I don't like to post email addresses in text due to spam-bots...

    There are also some Ducati specific forums, one at Bevel Heaven (more twins oriented) and another at motoscrubs.com.

    The main source of info on bevels though is the bevelheads mail list at micapeak.com.

    Ducatimeccanica.com has a some online info including manuals, as does Bevel Heaven.

    You should probably google those names as I'd likely get the links wrong if I did them by memory...
    #33
  14. BOOTLACE

    BOOTLACE Bikie Scum.

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Oddometer:
    8,942
    Location:
    Methane Central..(Sth Gippsland)
    It would be worth your time to try www.ducati-gowanloch.com If he ain't got what your looking for, there's a good bet no one else has either...:D

    And keep up the good work, it's gunna be a little sweety!
    #34
  15. BOOTLACE

    BOOTLACE Bikie Scum.

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Oddometer:
    8,942
    Location:
    Methane Central..(Sth Gippsland)
    [​IMG]

    Speaking of little sweeties..

    [​IMG]
    #35
  16. Eddieb

    Eddieb Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,358
    Location:
    Hamilton, New Zealand
    Hmmmm

    Anyone know of a spare narrow case Mach 1 / Diana style tank and a narrow case dual seat lying around? even a Sebring tank would do the job.

    I have '67? Mark 3 250 narrow case to do a restoration on but at some time in it's life it's ended up with a BSA Bantam tank and an unknown lineage seat.

    Down here in New Zealand it's significantly easier to find hens teeth that it is old Ducati sngles parts.
    #36
  17. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    Thanks for the encouragement!

    I HAVE tried to buy parts from Ian. I got as far as him confirming he has them but when I tried to send him payment, twice, I got no reply.

    I understand he is buried with things to do on his farm and just doesn't seem to have time to run his parts business. Don't get me wrong, I prefer he do that rather than take the money and then never send anything. I'm not angry, just frustrated. The sad part is, he's not the first shop I've had this issue with. It was a large reason I walked away from bikes and played with guitars instead for six months last spring...
    #37
  18. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Michigan, USA
    eff'n beautiful...

    I have a sport tank stashed away on a shelf awaiting a similar fate (minus the cut out for the carb) but reality is hinting it may never happen.. I'm not giving up the tank quite yet though, took me too damn long to find!

    EddieB - the seats are out there, some guy in Italy is reproducing the Mach 1 seat. I haven't searched for one recently but as I remember a year or so back he was selling them on eBay for... $300US? $400? Seemed expensive... until I built my own seat for this bike. Then, not so bad.

    If you want the basic style seat off a Monza, they're out there. i've got one in my basement as a matter of fact.. needs a complete rebuild though.

    As for the tank, good luck. I had a very nice one for a while but traded it away. I then bought another one and it was junk so I resold it (at a substantial loss). I think there are details on that in my 350 thread???

    I'd say either keep checking ebay or find a way to get to one of the big swap meets in Italy...
    #38
  19. BOOTLACE

    BOOTLACE Bikie Scum.

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2005
    Oddometer:
    8,942
    Location:
    Methane Central..(Sth Gippsland)
  20. DesmoDog

    DesmoDog Desmo was my dog. RIP big guy.

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    993
    Location:
    Michigan, USA

    Yeah, Phil is on teh beveleheads list. I've seenthose before...

    I think Ian should offer internships to Ducati freaks. They come to his place to work for two weeks, he let's the m buy parts the last day of their stay.

    And I don't mean they work with the parts, they work on the farm doing whatever jobs they're capable of so he can work on what must be a completely overwhelming task of making sense of all his treasures...
    #40