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1WD Vs 2WD My .002

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by Scott Davis, Dec 30, 2007.

  1. Scott Davis

    Scott Davis Which way did they go?

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
    Oddometer:
    657
    Location:
    Concord, NC
    This question comes up all the time. After having an 06 Tourist for the past few months, here are my thoughts:

    I got my Tourist back in November 07. It was a New 06 left over that I just had to have. I really wanted a Patrol, but dang this think is pretty. I have many miles on KLR's, XL's and TT Dual Sport bikes and I consider myself a pretty good offroad and onroad rider. I have riden my Tourist on many local trails that I use to ride on my KLR. I think in most places the Ural is just as good at getting up the trail in dry conditions. I think the 1WD Ural has these faults if you consider them faults:

    1. In deep mud, sand you will need to drag the side car through the thick stuff. This is a place where two wheel drive would work great. The 1WD Ural will pull hard to the right and stop. It's just drag on the sidecar wheel. Hmmm I wonder if flying the chair will work better?? :)

    2. On Steep Hill Climbs where again you are dragging along the dead weight of the side car, it would be much better to have two wheel drive. Same result, pulls right and you gotta stop when you run out of trail.

    If you just want to adventure on gravel, jeep trails, even most ATV trails you are fine with one wheel drive. Mine is a real tractor with the stock tires, and with knobbies, it is much better, but the problem remains. Here is where the problem lies: In one wheel drive when the going gets tough the front tire will begin to slide sideways towards the sidecar. You will experience this also with hard excelleration on dirt. It's the weight of the sidecar that draggs you to the right. With two wheel drive this problem does not exist.

    I really don't think "I" need two wheel drive and I have been through some real tough stuff. I actually find it challinging to make it through with only one wheel driving. Even with my wife in the side car (more weight) I can still climb many hills and go over many rough trails. (Not out West, or real harry stuff)

    If you really want to ATV your Ural, get the 2WD. When I ATV mine, it's just for fun, got to get anywhere. My bike will mostly go to the beach, Mts and cruise around looking way cool!! :)

    I hope this helps !

    Scott :)
    #1
  2. gregbenner

    gregbenner Long timer

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    #2
  3. Scott Davis

    Scott Davis Which way did they go?

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2006
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    Greg,
    You know I never thought about that!! 2WD bikes having problems turning while both rear tires are driving.

    You know, there is a lot to be said for rider skill also. I have seen some folks that can do anything on any bike. When I had the KLR, I could go almost anyplace and I have also been riding with folks that had trouble just getting up a hill on the same bike. I think many folks talk bad about the 1WD Ural or really any bike when they have trouble riding it. Some times I think riding skill out weights the bike. I know I can't make any bike do the max that it's capabile of. Some are far better, some are not.

    1WD or 2WD? What's your skill?

    Mr. Cob: I know there is a point where 2WD is just a must have. :)

    Scott
    06 Tourist (Man I Love this Bike)
    #3
  4. Blue Ridge Wheeltor

    Blue Ridge Wheeltor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    484
    Location:
    Kill Devil Hills, NC
    The difference in price between the Patrol and the Tourist is $1004.
    If you add in the luggage rack and mount and the canadian bumper (which comes stock with the Patrol,) the difference is only $648. Less if you figure in tax and shipping if you add it later.
    You will recover much of that if and when you sell the rig. So if you can pony up the extra, and get it back when you eventually sell the bike, it is well worth it even if you only need it a few times a year.
    #4
  5. USMCG_Spyder

    USMCG_Spyder RPOC pilot

    Joined:
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    5,137
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    The harder the medium the more difficult it is to steer in 2WD. It is not an overall loss of steering, but if you can't keep the tail loose and steer with the throttle body english helps (more weight on the tire you want to grip the most). It's sort of hard to explain I guess, but not difficult to learn if it's taken slowly.

    Like Scott says, the bike is extremely capable in 1WD but I gotta tell ya, when it starts to get ugly it sure is nice to reach back for the Happy Lever :evil
    #5
  6. ktm950se

    ktm950se Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2007
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    1,385
    Location:
    Southern Maine
    Greetings,
    Does use of 2WD slow cruising speed considerably?
    My late-Fall to early-Spring drives will be on hard-packed snow and ice covered roads. I'd be covering a total of 85 miles a day and I'm wondering what cruising speed I could maintain. Would it be best to only use 2WD on long, steep hills and when crossing snow drifts, or should I leave it engaged for the entire trip?

    Are there any issues with cold starting temps (approx -10F) or running for long distances in those temps?

    Please convince me that a Ural is in my future :clap

    ktm950se
    #6
  7. USMCG_Spyder

    USMCG_Spyder RPOC pilot

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    I can't help you with those questions, dude. Most of my 2WD action takes place in the low gears - I don't think I've ever hit 3rd and if I did I wasn't there for long. Regarding the difference in speed, I guess I could answer that one by saying I haven't noticed any drop in speed since it's a direct take-off from the final drive but most of what I do on mine (in 2WD) doesn't involve straight line riding unless I'm fixin' to jump it :evil

    Hit this thread, these folks know about snow:

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295334
    #7
  8. RedMenace

    RedMenace Adventure Sidecar

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2001
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    5,553
    Location:
    GoodLiver,Oregon,USA
    My buddy Vince would probably leave it in TWD as long as the rig was on a slick surface. I much prefer the steering charectaristics of conventional rear wheel drive and would only use TWD when I found I needed it.

    Some Urals are much easier than others to kick in and out of TWD, which has always influenced my use of it on a given rig. Some of them stick and are very hard to shift; others slip right in. Most will have a trick which once you discover and practice makes it easier to do this. Cob might have some tips...

    You will need to find your cruising speed by practice. You need to drive inside your skill envelope-I couldn't recommend you go xx.x mph, but I wouldn't think 85 miles a day would be a problem on passable roads, with or without TWD.

    Your ability to steer and brake on snowy roads is going to have a lot to do with how fast you can go-you are going to need to try it to see what you can do and if constant or as needed TWD is best for you.

    Starting in the cold is not usualy a problem for Urals. A lot depends upont the state of tune. Keep the timing and carbs in spec and don't let the valves get tight(check those valves regularly!) Lighter winter oil helps reduce drag when starting. A heat lamp or block heater works wonders when the temps are very low.Once up and running, Urals LIKE cold air and I think they run best in Spring and winter air.
    #8
  9. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Granite Falls, Washington State, USA
    Howdy All,

    This topic comes up from time, I wish there was a way to "sticky" it and some other useful things to know at the head of this Forum. Anyway first off to make shifting into and out of TWD much easier I would suggest that you make this small, easy and VERY cheap modification.

    What I did was remove the TWD shifter, I machined a flat on top of it, then drilled and tapped a hole in it about 1/2 and inch deep using a 5/16- 24 tap. I then went down to the local hardware store and bought a 6 inch long bolt with the proper thread on it, screwed the bolt into the modified shifter and ended up with this. If your careful you can do this with out any machining just grind a flat spot on top of the shifter, then starting out with a small drill bit, drill a pilot hole for your final drill size, then tap to suit. Take your time and you can do this with a regular hand held drill.

    This shows the shifter in the one wheel drive position.
    [​IMG]

    This shows the shifter in the TWD position.
    [​IMG]

    First let me lay something on you that you may make your shifting MUCH easier. It is darned near impossible to shift into or out of TWD while the rig is stopped. This is because the drive to the sidecar wheel is operated by a "dog clutch" there is no type of sync it is either in or out. If the splines on the clutch hub and the clutch sleeve are not perfectly aligned they will not shift. If the rig is stopped and these teeth are not aligned it will not shift into TWD and often times if it is in TWD it will not shift out because of all the strain that is being applied to the gear teeth, therfore no matter how much pressure you put on the shift lever it ain't going in or out.

    You can get it to shift while the rig is stopped by moving the rig back and forth, this will work even better if as you move the rig you turn the handlebars a bit this allows a speed differential between the pusher and the hack wheel which will aid in aligning those gear teeth.

    Now this is the easiest way to shift into and out of TWD.

    SHIFT WHILE THE RIG IS MOVING.

    Yes I said "MOVING". I shift into or out of TWD at speeds up to 60 mph while moving and WITHOUT using the clutch. This is how to do this is while you are moving let off the throttle, grab your "extended" shift lever and apply LIGHT pressure to make the shift while at the same time gently moving the handlebars back and forth. What this accomplishes is this, moving the handlebars back and forth causes the speed of the pusher and the hack wheel to be slightly different, this causes the clutch hub and the clutch sleeve of the dog clutch to move at different speeds, while moving at different speeds they will when properly aligned slip into or out of gear with out noise, or damage.

    If you use to much force when trying to make this shift you can and probably will damage something within the TWD system. "FORCE" is not needed, very gentle pressure is all that is needed to make the shift when all the parts are rotating and aligned. If you want to use the clutch you can but if you do it as I described it you won't need it, it's up to you.

    I have seen people using hammers, chunks of wood and rocks trying to bang the shifter into or out of gear while the rig is stopped, this is totally unnecessary and constitutes ABUSE of the machine in my book. These things are Ural's, it's not rocket science, it's Russian, just drive it like a tractor and be HAPPY.:deal
    #9
  10. USMCG_Spyder

    USMCG_Spyder RPOC pilot

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    :eek2
    #10
  11. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Location:
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    Howdy Spyder,

    Ah put your jaw back in place :lol3 ride with us in Death valley and you will be doing it too.:deal
    #11
  12. MooseKiller

    MooseKiller Tripod

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    Looking forward to the ride reports and photos from DVD 08... :deal
    #12
  13. sprintstrider

    sprintstrider Been here awhile

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Tucson, AZ (Its a dry heat!)
    A 2WD Ural should be in everyone's future:clap .(PS mine is FS, listing here) I rode mine as a daily driver in WI all winter long, including some snowy days last year. I found I did not need the 2WD all that often, and definitley not to go faster as often times it is braking and turning without traction that was fightening. My dad always used to harp on me about people and their 4WDs too, "it don't help you slow down!" I found it difficult with too steep of snow to get bite on the front tire while turning in 1WD or 2WD. The best place I had fun was on the frozen lakes and I often would have mine up to 40-50 mph in 2WD. Again, if you had to stop or turn fast you were in an "oh Sh*t" :eek1 moment big time. I suppose depending on where you live, some studs in the front tire would be real helpful for steering. I don't know if having them on rear wheel or wheels as this would give too much traction?? (like using 2WD on concrete- very bad for steering), maybe someone with more experience can comment.

    Cob...I have no doubt that you know what you are doing with 50 mph shifts to/from 1WD-2WD.....:eek1 I am not going to try that....

    As for cold, my bike liked the cold and it ran with much more feeling of power. I ran 10w40 instead of 20w-50 when it was real cold and a battery tender helps a whole lot. I always gave her a few kicks with the kicker without the engine-cut-off switch in the off position to try and get the metal coated with some oil....don't know if this really helps...but a guy told me too and it couldn't hurt? Some people put on a block heater, I always heard mixed things about this. I was told that it is when the outside of the engine cools fast and the oil inside is still warm that makes for condensation in the engine and water in oil- that this makes more trouble then the good a block heater would do...Needless to say if it dropped below 0 deg I would put a CERAMIC heater on a timer to blow gentle warm air on the bike....(obviously be careful -don't put the electric element heater near the bike as it had GAS in it...duh, but ya never know)!. I kept fluids changed often, redirect the breather tube away from the airbox and keep the air cleaner clean and dry. I had a 2nd K&N and swapped them out every week, as the slushy gunk tended to freeze the air cleaner and make it run rich.

    That all being said, I did many frequent 20-30 minute trips all day during my winter.....If you took it out and did drive to/from work and fun on weekends maybe that wouldn't be so bad.

    Do it, DO it, DO iT....the best fun was knowing no other person in their right mind would be out in the snow on their bike.....
    #13
  14. Mr. Cob

    Mr. Cob Howling "Mad", Adventurer

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    Howdy All,

    The reason it's important to learn to shift in and out of TWD while your moving is simply this, when off road MOMENTUM is your best friend. If you stop before shifting into TWD you now have to again pick up speed, speed is the only thing that will get a Ural through some stuff such as deep sand, slow down or worse yet stop and your STUCK. Last year we rode Dead Mans Pass, in DV from east to west, the far eastern end of that road is DEEP sand and when going from east to west it is up hill, we needed TWD in the deep stuff but would get to places that were not so deep that had fairly tight turns in order to make the turn at the speed needed to keep going when the deep sand came up I would shift out of TWD and then back into it again before blasting into the deep stuff.

    The same can be said of snow or mud, wet leaves anything that would necessitate the use of TWD. This is the same principal used on the older 4x4 vehicles before they came out with all this high tech automatic shift on the fly stuff, you could shift into or out of 4x4 while moving MUCH easier then you could if the vehicle was not moving. I have been driving old school 4x4 for the last 40 years and know this to be a fact.

    When it comes to driving on hard packed snow and ice, I don't care how many wheels you have driving the vehicle forward, they won't help you stop or turn only TRACTION will do that. Every year you see the idiots who think that just because they have 4x4 or all wheel drive they can just blast down the road, have you ever noticed that the majority of vehicles in the ditch are 4x4 or all wheel drive, theres a simple reason for this there are driven by idots. Rant over, back to the regular programing.
    #14
  15. AceRph

    AceRph Be like Tom

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    Mr. Cob's TWD shifting advise works great. I tried it out a month ago while in Death Valley. Easy. Would have been a whole lot easier w/ the shifter mod. It was a long reach, but it can be done.
    #15
  16. USMCG_Spyder

    USMCG_Spyder RPOC pilot

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    Now that War Pig is up on blocks it would seem I'm fresh out of excuses for not doing this shifter mod, which I've had my eye on for some time :thumb
    #16
  17. ktm950se

    ktm950se Banned

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    #17
  18. 502MAD

    502MAD 502MAD

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    Interesting info on shifting on the fly. The one time that I test drove a TWD model I thought that it was stiff getting into and out of 2 wheel mode.... but then again the dealer never said to do it while driving. I just assumed that it was best done at a standstill. Keep the great info coming guys.... I love learning more and more about these beasts......

    Signed,
    still deciding (but getting closer):D
    #18