1WD vs. 2WD performance differences?

Discussion in 'Hacks' started by JustKip, Oct 31, 2009.

  1. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

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    Starting to get serious about a Ural and, since there are none at the local deler, I'd like to ask a couple of questions of those who know here. The parts counter guy (chased me down as I was leaving) told me that the 2WD have a cruising speed of 45 mph and the 1WD are 65. This is hard for me to believe.
    Do the 2WD and 1WD models have a substantially different final drive ratio?

    Is there a big difference in street handeling/performance between the two? Are the Retro and Tourist models mechanically the same, with the T being a stripped Tourist? I like the looks of the Retro model best, but also realize the limits imposed by wanting to keep a lower rig looking great.
    OTOH, I can really see myself abusing the shit out of a Patrol (or even the cheap T model)

    Anybody have lots of seat time on both?
    #1
  2. Tarka

    Tarka Strangely strange. Oddly normal.

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    Apart from talking through his arse,he`s probably misheard and confused a possible suggested maximum speed in two wheel drive mode.

    The two wheel drive is selectable and not fixed and the 2WD models I`ve ridden are no different in road performance when in single wheel drive mode than a plain 1WD model is.

    You don`t want to be using 2WD on the road in dry conditions as there`s no diff and certainly not at any kind of highish speed.

    The 2WD and 1WD combos are a bit different in handling traits because the 2WD sidecar is a bit higher than the 1WD one and also the 'lead' is different between the two types....
    Certainly going from a UK sided 1WD to a 2WD (which by its drive configuration needs to be Continental sided) was more different than simply the left and right cornering process being the 'other way around'.
    It`s not a massive difference but it does exist.
    #2
  3. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    I own a Patrol, and have ridden a Tourist. I couldn't detect any real difference in handling.

    My Patrol cruises just fine at 65 mph.
    #3
  4. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

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    Thanks Guys,
    You've cleared up the confusion pretty well. Looks like the difference in advertised ground clearence is only the way the chair is mounted for the drive shaft, or lack of one. And no other suspension mods for off road. This means that either one is slab capable, if needed. Leaning towards the Patrol now, cuz I don't care for camo...Retro still looks damn fine though.
    #4
  5. Captain Hobo

    Captain Hobo Complete Bastard Supporter

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    It's kinda true...engaged, the cruising speed on sheet ice with 2wd is somewhere around 40mph.

    ;)
    #5
  6. MN Yeti

    MN Yeti Been here awhile

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    I been running a Tourist for a few years, but have ridden 2wd machines. The only difference in handling is that the 2wd models will fly the chair a little earlier than the 1wd models, due to a slightly higher center of gravity. The Retro is very stable but I didn't care for the conventional forks. You can really man-handle the leading-link models (a three wheel drift is a thing of beauty). Either way you have a blast. From my experience the 2wd is really nice in deep snow and mud. The 1wd will go through everything else.
    #6
  7. DirtyDR

    DirtyDR Dana Supporter

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    The Retro is lower than the other rigs because it has 18 inch wheels and the others are all 19 inch. Having ridden a Retro I have to say it is a lot more stable in cornering and does run a lot better on the highway than my Patrol and I didn't notice any added effort from the conventional front end. I have ridden a Tourist also and I don't see much difference between it and my Patrol. As previously stated the 2 wheel drives have a bit less wheel lead on the hack than the 1 one wheel drives but that really isn't going to make much difference unless you like to use a lot of front brake on those hard left turns.
    #7
  8. RedMenace

    RedMenace Adventure Sidecar

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    It can make a difference if you corner aggressively in left turns, or if you catch a rut with the sidecar wheel going left. It isn't necessarily a matter of using the front brake. In fact I have seen/experienced it more often with hard rear brake application in a left or simply cranking the bars hard to the left. A TWD URal is a little more apt to stand on its nose or flip bike over sidecar in lefts, although the difference is slight & all Urals(except, perhaps the retro) will do this fairly easily.

    That is why heavy loads on a nose rack, putting ballast on the seat or floor of the hack, gas cans mounted on the nose of the sidecar and dicking around sliding left, particularly with a passenger in the hack are bad ideas.
    #8
  9. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

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    This brings up another question I hadn't considered before...tire choices!
    Are there good street/highway tires availible for both sizes? How about dual purpose tires? I could see carrying a dirt oriented tire as the spare and switching it over to the pusher when I get to the dirty bits on long trips.
    #9
  10. DirtyDR

    DirtyDR Dana Supporter

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    I think the tire choices are a lot better for the 18 inchers from what I hear but I haven't personally looked for the 18s so I couldn't say for sure.

    You are correct on those left turns on any rig, I can't believe how much weight some people put on the hack noses and mounted on the right front of the tubs. I have had the pusher in the air a few times but it is almost always due to slow speed off camber stuff off roading the Patrol.
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  11. RedMenace

    RedMenace Adventure Sidecar

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    I think you will find more choices for 18" tires. It also effectively lowers your gear ratio a bit to run 18" and you don't lose much ground clearance, so it can be a good choice for offroad as well as highway.

    The limiting factor with Urals is the sidewall clearance at the drive shaft-so be careful with those really agro knobbies!
    #11
  12. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    I really wish 18" rims were an option from new on all rigs. When the Cheng Shin C180 in 3.75X19 was still available, it was My favored tire. Its smaller diameter effectively lowers ratio.

    One thing to keep in mind is knobbies, and 2wd combined can sometimes be a bit of overkill for a Urals HP, and gearing. In 2wd, aggressive street tires like the stock tires, or Duro HF308 will provide traction as good, or better than than a 1wd with aggressive knobbie.

    A knobbie can wear out 3 or 4 times faster than a street tire, which is a good argument to go with 2wd. A good option for a 1wd rig is to put a knobbie on the spare, and just swap pushers for off road, or snow.

    One other thing to bear in mind is that for mud, snow, and ice, narrow tires have the advantage.
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  13. Sidecardoug

    Sidecardoug Pleasantly pleasing

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    Good comments all.

    The Retro sidecar also sits lower than the sidecar on the Tourist. The frame is slightly different. So it's not just the 18 wheels.

    I could not bolt my current sidecar, originally from a Tourist, to my Retro for example.

    As for 2WD, my own feeling is that it is overrated. I know there are times when it is needed, but 1WD with good tires and skills is enough about 95 percent of the time. (As an aside, I know the marketplace does not agree with me: Ural dealers sell a bunch more Gear Ups and Patrols than Tourists)
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  14. Sidecardoug

    Sidecardoug Pleasantly pleasing

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    Good advice. I run a Metzler Marathon for a street tire and a Continental TKC 80 for the dirt. I just swap out the back wheel on the bike depending what I am going to do
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  15. tony the tiger

    tony the tiger Long timer

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    Yeah but we had fun up on the "Butte" at the CSR this year, eh? :wink:

    Where's them pictures I took... :beer
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  16. Sidecardoug

    Sidecardoug Pleasantly pleasing

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    We did have a great time. No need for 2wd, but lots of dirt, great views, and good company. Fun bringing the rig back to rally mud spattered and dusty to sit among all the polished rigs.

    So where's your ride report?

    Snow camp coming up, too...
    #16
  17. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

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    You guys have given me so much info - even more than I asked! Thank you so much :super :super :super

    I'm pretty sure I'm going with the Retro, in part because I want to avoid the temptation of running the Rubicon trail on my rig, and with 2WD I'd try it for sure. That's not the kind of thing us fat old guys should do alone, and I've always ridden alone..........

    ...still....GOD DAMMIT! I want ride the Rubicon...


    To be continued :norton
    #17
  18. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    It has been proven that a Ural can tow a Rokon.
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  19. tony the tiger

    tony the tiger Long timer

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    :shog ...need to reassemble :lol3
    /hijack
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  20. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

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    Hijack isn't a problem, but you ought to invite me in what ever you plan in my thread. Except if it involves snow
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