2004 R1150RT Wideband O2 Sensor Project (and AF-XIED for BMW)

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by roger 04 rt, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,429
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    On a BMW motorcycle with connected O2 sensors, anything you do to the AIT (IAT) merely introduces a temporary error that the ECU quickly discards. Resetting the ECU does little because so much adaptation happens quickly—think 80/20 rule.

    The Dobeck controllers worked by disabling closed loop, and the O2 Eliminators were just trying prevent Check Error Lights. The PCs also broke closed loop. On the Wetheads and beyond, disconnecting the O2 sensors force a fueling spread and set error codes.

    I began this project in 2011 as a one-off for my bike then helped a Camhead rider with a 2010 R1200GSA. Eventually I bought a 2017 R1200RTW but in the meantime worked with the owner of two Wetheads to solve the “Wethead bug”. To my knowledge, no one is yet attempting to lambda-shift an R1250 and I don’t own one. If someone wants to try, and if they have a GS-911, I’m willing to help.

    I anticipate that bmw will make a “not easy to fool” test of the rear sensor but I’ve got some thoughts on how to satisfy the test. I can imagine some tests of the rear sensor that could be made continuously while riding, adding to the complexity. The best way to figure it out is just to dive in.

    I bet Tactical from GA eventually buys a 1250 ...
    sweatmark likes this.
  2. Frank smith

    Frank smith R1200GSA, WR250R, R80RT Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Oddometer:
    448
    Location:
    New Market Alabama
    I know this has been discussed but need solution recommendations for the problem on my bike. I just bought the XIED about 3 months ago if I recall. Has less than 3k miles. Negative black wires are grounded at battery, not the frame.

    Got these results off my GS911 has occurred before, I keep clearing fault codes.

    21F863 : Oxygen sensor 1, implausible signal or value
    Currently present : NO
    Engine warning light (MIL) : NO
    Frequency count : 2
    Logistic(Healing) count : 22
    . Fault Code History :
    . . Record number : 1
    . . Odometer : 16897.1 mls
    . . ABS time : 938960
    . . Lambda Voltage Bank 1 : 0.49 V
    . . Engine Speed : 0.0 rpm
    . . Time since Start : 0.00
    . . EGT before Cat : 63.8 °F
    . . Record number : 2
    . . Odometer : 17105.3 mls
    . . ABS time : 1769684
    . . Lambda Voltage Bank 1 : 0.52 V
    . . Engine Speed : 2217.0 rpm
    . . Time since Start : 0.50
    . . EGT before Cat : 74.7 °F
    - :
    21F873 : Oxygen sensor 2, implausible signal or value
    Currently present : NO
    Engine warning light (MIL) : NO
    Frequency count : 1
    Logistic(Healing) count : 11
    . Fault Code History :
    . . Record number : 1
    . . Odometer : 16897.1 mls
    . . ABS time : 938960
    . . Lambda Voltage Bank 2 : 0.49 V
    . . Engine Speed : 0.0 rpm
    . . Time since Start : 0.00
    . . EGT before Cat : 63.8 °F
  3. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,429
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Frank, It seems like its either one of two things:

    --you don't have AF-XIEDs with the RAM function ... do you have the larger AF-XIEDs or the add-on RAM module?
    --you are waiting too long after key on to start the bike ... are you starting within 10 seconds of key on every time?
  4. Frank smith

    Frank smith R1200GSA, WR250R, R80RT Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Oddometer:
    448
    Location:
    New Market Alabama
    Roger,

    I bought the XIEDs at Beemerboneyard. I have the larger XEIDs I think. Ill send a pic of the installed units as soon as I can find it.

    I specifically waited for the new units until pulling the trigger. I'll ask Mike Figelski what i bought tomorrow. I NEVER wait too long to start the bike after turning on ignition. Always within 10 seconds (I think). I made a point of that after reading your advice.

    Any other advice you can offer?
  5. Frank smith

    Frank smith R1200GSA, WR250R, R80RT Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Oddometer:
    448
    Location:
    New Market Alabama
    I took this picture on Dec 30th, right after the install. I think I purchased the XIED's in late November.


    XIED.JPG
  6. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,429
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    That all sounds good.

    I looked more closely at the error codes. Could you post a video of the AF-XIED units from just before key on until just after starting?
  7. Frank smith

    Frank smith R1200GSA, WR250R, R80RT Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2016
    Oddometer:
    448
    Location:
    New Market Alabama
  8. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,429
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I’ve been thinking about how to lambda-shift the R1250. The R1250 design appears to have an O2 sensor per cylinder, for Closed Loop Control, ahead of the catalytic converter AND one monitoring O2 sensor after the cat.

    On the newest R1200s, an implausible signal, lack of or failure of an O2 sensor inhibits Closed Loop Control, limp mode of some sort is enabled, and an error is logged internally. Nightrider developed the RAM assist to make it appear that a normal O2 sensor exists at Key On when “implausibility” is tested.

    On the R1250, the post-cat O2 sensor allows the ECU to verify that the cat has done its job. The ECU can measure during Closed Loop, during open loop acceleration and during deceleration. It would expect to see certain signal levels for each riding condition. I would also expect that the ECU performs an “implausibility” test, just as it does on the pre-cat O2s.

    Although it seems likely to me that the current RAM assisted AF-XIED will work for the O2 sensors ahead of the catalytic converter (meaning lambda-shifting will function), some testing is needed to determine whether the AF-XIED will do its job or be thwarted by the post-cat O2, and any limitations that the post cat sensor creates.

    Nightrider doesn’t have the resources or BMW expertise to do the testing but if there was someone who wants to try, and if they have a GS-911 that works on the R1250, I’m sure that Nightrider would support the testing.

    Anyone interested can post here and then we can contact Nightrider.
  9. chasbmw

    chasbmw Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,576
    Location:
    Bath Uk
    I would assume that current or future emissions regimes will be doing their best to lock down the emission systems on vehicles so it is increasingly difficult to “spoof” them, remove CATS and so forth.....

    In a world where cars and vans are being forced to become cleaner, dirty motorcycles will stand out and action will be taken.

    I am conflicted, I have an Electric car, but 5 bikes of differing degrees of dirty exhausts.
  10. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,429
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    We don't take plastic bags at the grocery store, we bring our own.
  11. ClosetCaseNerd

    ClosetCaseNerd Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Oddometer:
    26
    On the R1200GS why is it important to start the bike within 10 seconds of ignition power? Is this <10 start up only an issue on bikes with the old AF-XIED product (non RAM?)
  12. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,429
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    It is important only on watercooled R1200s, because BMW devised a test to make sure there is a real O2 sensor. The timing of the test and the timing of the AF-XIED with RAM going live have to be within a certain window. Turn the bike on, wait for the gauges to swing full scale, start within 10 seconds.
  13. ClosetCaseNerd

    ClosetCaseNerd Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Oddometer:
    26
    I'm on a '18 with TFT, if you wait too long (greater than 10 seconds from keyless button push? No "dial swing" for the TFT) what happens? I'm curious as the TFT has a startup front screen of its own. Does it throw a code and you need the gs911 software to clear? Also its logged in the ECU as an event permanently?
  14. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,429
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    If you wait longer than 10-20 seconds you might throw a code (that can be cleared by the GS-911) , if a code is thrown at that start it probably will block Closed Loop operation (until either you stop and restart it within the window or clear the error with a GS-911).

    If you turn your key switch on will your bike start while the TFT is initializing?
  15. ClosetCaseNerd

    ClosetCaseNerd Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2013
    Oddometer:
    26
    No key switch, as it's got a key fob. That said, yes you can start before the TFT finishes initializing. Your question prompted me to try it. Oddly enough what I took for initializing seems just a opening sequence. Bike fires right up without waiting. That said - the code it may throw. Is that event permanently stored in the ECU? The reason I ask is for warranty concerns, I like the idea that the AF-XIED is undetectable once removed, but am not willing to risk my warranty coverage.
  16. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,429
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    The error code will remain in the ECU until you clear it with a GS-911. It will read something like "Implausible O2 sensor signal".

    Note that I'm not a representative for Nightrider or Beemerboneyard, just a rider who worked to figure some of this out. A dealer would likely think there was a problem with your O2 that they should figure out. At least that's my thinking for me on my 2017 R1200RTW.
  17. dwag56

    dwag56 n00b

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2018
    Oddometer:
    5
    Location:
    Hoorn, the Netherlands
  18. Andrew

    Andrew Optimus Primer Super Moderator Super Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2001
    Oddometer:
    22,563
    Location:
    Eastbania
  19. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,429
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Nightrider hasn’t been able to get OEM connectors for the 1150 so it is selling a splice-in harness as is used on the 1100 series.
  20. Andrew

    Andrew Optimus Primer Super Moderator Super Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2001
    Oddometer:
    22,563
    Location:
    Eastbania
    And the $200 kit in the link has everything needed, yes?