2004 R1150RT Wideband O2 Sensor Project (and AF-XIED for BMW)

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by roger 04 rt, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. terryckdbf

    terryckdbf Bumbling BackRoad Riders™

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    Roger

    Thanks for running the test and posting the results. Between the 2 posts the fuel mileage is basically the same, given other variables. 49.8 +/- at Lambda 0.94, 49 +/- at Lambda 1.08. This supports my numbers as well, I seem to get 42 +/- at Lambda 1.00 and 41 +/- at Lambda 0.94. Shifting patterns and throttle response seem to play into the results.

    Be well.

    Terry
  2. Mr. Canoehead

    Mr. Canoehead Taste Gunnels!

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    I am way overdue for a report on the XIED. I have a 2005 1150 GSA that I have owned for 7 years with muffler delete (still have the cat) and a Unifilter (and a ton of other farkles that don't affect engine performance). I have been running a PCIII for about 5 of those years with the stock PCIII map - I never got the bike dyno'ed.

    Over the years, I have recommended the PCIII to a lot of 1150 riders as it really helps rideability (I could lug the engine down to 2500 in 6th with the PCIII and it would pull smoothly (albeit slowly) but there were a few nagging issues:

    1) There seemed to be the occasional misunderstanding between the PCIII and the Motronic which would result in some funny running (usually loss of power and smoothness) - almost as though the Motronic was resetting itself.

    2) The PCIII is pretty big and takes a lot of space under the tank - somewhat minor but I have farkles stuck in every nook and cranny.

    3) The lack of support from Dynojet was a concern -

    • if it crapped in the middle of nowhere, it would not be easy to bypass since the Motronic wouldn't work with the WB PCIII sensor. I never had an issue but once when I disconnected the battery, I forgot to reconnect the negative PCIII cable and the bike wouldn't start. It only took a few minutes to figure out the problem but that was in my garage.
    • Also, none of the updated PCIII flashes could be applied to the PCIII for the BMW, which is very poorly documented on the DJ site.
    • The PCIII connectors are not of great quality and I didn't like that the WB sensor was not heated. Seemed like some poor engineering, but again I never actually had a problem.
    4) Finally, I noticed that the tailpipe (and the O2 sensor when I removed it to put in the XIED) was very sooty. I suspect that the PCIII map is very rich at large throttle openings where it increases the stock fuelling by up to 15%.

    I was following this thread with a great deal of interest and when Roger offered the product I bought one of the first batch to try. I figured if I didn't like it, I could always give it to my buddy Gale who has a bone stock 1100 RT.

    So, after getting back from a 5000km trip in July, I decided to make the switch to the XIED. It is amazing how easy this thing was to install - it took a lot longer to remove the PCIII (about an hour) than it did to install the XIED (10 mins). It is also tiny, and can easily be removed if anything goes wrong. Luckily I had kept my narrow band sensor when I went to the PCIII.

    I reset the Motronic and took it for a ride - it ran like crap. Basically, it was back to stock fuelling, rough and surging at low revs. However, the Motronic quickly began to adapt and after 100km, the bike was running much better, almost as smooth as the PCIII.

    I then tried to richen it up some more and went the wrong way on the controller - I actually leaned it out a bit and it started to run a bit more poorly. A quick email to Roger got this sorted and I went back to the factory setting and back to smooth running.

    I now have about 1000km on the XIED and it runs as well as the PCIII, perhaps a little better. I can easily lug it down to 2500 in 6th or 2000 in 5th and it pulls smoothly. As a bonus, I seem to be getting better fuel economy (I didn't quantify the improvement, I know Roger would have) than I got with the PCIII and the pipe is less sooty. I haven't seen any downside to the XIED, it seems to integrate seamlessly with the Motronic.

    Overall, I think the XIED is a better solution than the PCIII for a close to stock bike.
  3. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Tank Vent Effect on AFR

    Yesterday I had a chance to see what the effect of opening the tank vent was on mixture leanness.

    To measure that I pulled the vent hose from the throttle body side of the solenoid and then blocked and unblocked it with my finger while the bike was idling, where it seems the effect should be greatest due to high intake manifold vacuum. I used the graphical output of the LC-1 to make the measurement.

    The effect was pretty simple so I'll describe it and not bother with a chart.

    During Closed Loop operation, the Motronic adapts to the opening and closing (which it knows nothing about since I'm using my finger) so quickly that there is no visible effect on AFR.

    During Open Loop operation, while the bike was warming up, there was roughly a 0.6 AFR change. With the hose capped I measured 12.8:1 and then when opened, 13.4:1. I did this repeatedly and the (approx.) 4% change in idle AFR, back and forth as I opened and closed the hose inlet was very repeatable.

    My reason for making the measurement was to see what effect I could have on the mixture during startup by opening the vent. Now I know. ;)

    RB
  4. Mr. Canoehead

    Mr. Canoehead Taste Gunnels!

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    Based on this, I assume that you still have the charcoal cannister in place? Canadian bikes don't have a canister, so both hoses go to atmosphere.

    Send from my Droid using Tapatalk
  5. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Ian, yes I have to admit I've left mine on. Seems to work fine. Since I have it I thought I'd find out how much it affect AFR when opened--not much during Cloosed Loop or higher power.
  6. Y E T I

    Y E T I Unpossible

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    I'll finally have time to install mine this weekend. Moving sucks. :bluduh
  7. Gary Stevens

    Gary Stevens DufferMax

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    What's the bottom line of your analysis for us average riders? My used 04 r1150 came with a Dobek TFI that must allow for some adjustments you are making. I just don't know what to do with it.
    Gary
  8. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    The bottom line is that the simplest way to get fuel added across-the-board is to install a BMW-AF-XIED in series with your O2 sensor. Setting 7 adds 4% and setting 8 adds 6% to fueling throughout the operating range of your motorcycle. There are other settings, richer and leaner, but most likely 7 or 8 will be best for you.

    You will have a smoother engine and more pull in the 1500-4000 rpm range because you have richened the mixture from stock (selected to keep your catalytic converter happy) toward what is called Best Power mixture. Your engine will be happier and so will you when you roll-on the throttle form cruising. This solution works in harmony with the Motronic, not against it. I don't sell them but Beemerboneyard and nightrider do.

    Any modification of this type (including Techlusion) is only legal off road. :wink:
  9. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    LC-1 Installed on R1100RT

    A friend from Vancouver who we know as Happy Wanderer agreed to be a beta tester for the BMW-AF-XIED on his R1100RT: R1100RT XIED Beta Report. The success of that inspired him to go whole-hog and install the Innovate Motorsports LC-1. GS Addict helped him with the installation and the workmanship is top notch.

    [​IMG]

    The significance of this to all of us is that we will, as Happy Wanderer's time allows, start to get the first clear picture of how the R1100 makes its fueling decisions. Before going into detail, from the several test rides that HW has made to date, it's looking pretty clear that the R1100 and R1150 have very similar fueling algorithms. At first glance, it is difficult to tell the difference. Below is the first test ride made with the LC-1 set at Lambda 0.96 (4% richer or about 14.1:1). If I didn't know better, I'd say this data was taken from my R1150 it is that similar.

    [​IMG]

    After riding for a few days at Lambda 0.96, HW increased the Closed Loop enrichment target by 2% to lambda 0.94 (6% total enrichment) and set up and took data from a cold-start to test ride on the road, that chart is below. A summary of what I can see from this and other charts he sent:

    --Cold Start Enrichment: The R1100 has a similar start-up and cold start enrichment sequence, conducted as an Open Loop process. A difference to the R1150RT is that the R1100 seems to run a fixed time sequence from cold start where the R1150 shortens the time to Closed Loop, based on engine temperature, probably to reduce emissions. The amount of cold start enrichment seems the same as the R1150--10-15%.

    --Adaptation Values: Based on several sequences HW sent me, and his reports, it is very clear that the Motronic MA 2.2 has learning adaptation, much like the R1150 and R1200. I can't say that the process is exactly the same, just that it exists. There are many who see the Motronic ECUs as simplistic, through the course of this project, I've seen many sophisticated capabilities in all models. This should not be a surprise since Bosch/BMW had had electronic fuel injection for about 15 years when the Oilheads were introduced.

    --Acceleration Enrichment: Looking at the dips below the 13.8:1 line on the chart, you can see a significant acceleration enrichment, just like the R1150 and R1200. AFRs get to nearly 12:1 with a good turn of the throttle.

    --Deceleration Enleanment: Likewise you can see bumps up to 14.4 or 15:1 showing that during mild deceleration the mixture is leaned by 4-8%.

    --Overrun Fuel Cutoff: Just like with the R1150 and R1200, when the throttle is closed, the Motronic on the R1100 shuts off the injectors and the mixture shoots to the top of the chart, greater than 22:1.

    --Rock Steady Closed Loop Fueling: HW is running E10 fuel during this test which shows that the Motronic has adapted (the fuel is 4% leaner than pure gas) its Closed Loop fueling to 6% richer than stock fueling (10% total enrichment considering the E10) and readily gets it back to 13.8:1 after acceleration, deceleration or overrun fuel cutoff.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks HW for the big effort you and GSA made to get this installed. I know as time allows you intend to take data with the Coding Plug out. When you do, the last of the Motronic's secrets will be exposed and we'll all know once and for all just what the R1100s and Motronic MA 2.2s do when the Coding Plug is removed.

    Great work!
  10. Mike Figielski

    Mike Figielski Been here awhile

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    Hi Guys,
    Well, it took a little longer than I had hoped but we just received the first batch of 24 BMW-AF-XiED units for the R1150 series bikes. You can see and/or order them here: http://www.beemerboneyard.com/bmwafxied1150.html

    Stay tuned here for future availability of R1100 and R1200 units, just waiting for connectors to make the plug and play harnesses with. Thanks!
    Mike

    PS, these work unbelievably well. Took off the Power Commander Wide Band I had on my bike and won't switch back! It is that good!
  11. Mr. Canoehead

    Mr. Canoehead Taste Gunnels!

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    I dug out my LC1 to datalog my truck. What a PITA. The LC1 is more a box of parts than a product. How hard would it be for them to connect all the grounds together from the factory? And how hard would it be to plug the gauge into the digital output rather than solder it to the analog one?

    Then, the LC1 only has a 9 pin serial connection, which my current laptop doesn't support, so I have to buy a USB to serial connector.

    To log the output from the LC1 analog output 2 to my SCT tuner, I have to butcher up a Firewire cable (I haven't seen one of those in 5 years). Then I have to ground the LC1 gauge and the Firewire to the same ground as the 4 grounds from the LC1. There are going to be 8 ground wires in total! Admittedly, this is more an SCT issue than an LC1 issue, but still....

    If anyone is looking at an XIED or an LC1, one is plug and play and the other is build your own... reminds me of Heathkit!

    Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
  12. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    The LC-1 reminds me of a Heath kit too. It is somewhat clumsy to configure but I did a separate thread with install instructions here: lc-1 install.

    If you have the patience its a great performance and diagnostic tool. However, minus the datalogging capability a BMW-AF-XIED gives you the same performance and it only takes minutes plus tank removal time to install.
  13. terryckdbf

    terryckdbf Bumbling BackRoad Riders™

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    Tank removal not required on the 1200 GS(A). Plug and Play, ground to battery, couple of Ty-Wraps.

    Be safe

    Terry
  14. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Mike,

    Glad to here you're getting your first shipment and cables.

    I am also impressed that you like it better than the PC III w/Wideband.

    It is not well known that the main benefit of the PC III is the Wideband sensor, which Dynojet sets to 13.8:1. The PC III doesn't calibrate the Wideband so it can become inaccurate. Also since the 1150 adapts to the 13.8 setting it adds 6% everywhere through adaptation. So there is an invisible 6% in every cell.

    That hidden 6% is only there after you ride for a while and the Motronic builds up some Adaptive Values and not typically when the dyno tuner does their thing. So it is easy to end up with too much fuel. Going further, the BMW fuel table has plenty of fuel already in the high power areas where tuners typically add fuel. So the typical PC Dyno tune adds fuel to an already rich area, and the the adaptive values add more.

    Oddly the best place to add fuel on an Oilhead may be the 0%, 2%, and 5% columns above 2000 rpm. That is where the Oilhead is lean. But tuners never seem to add it there even though that is a spot that leads to surging.

    Anyway, as you found out the BMW-AF-XIED gives you closed loop enrichment with the more robust, stock O2 sensor and is a one connector install. Simpler and smaller than the PC III w/Wideband, no computer programming. One potentiometer to set, usually at setting 7 or 8 on the 1150 and 1200.

    RB
  15. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Hey Terry, That's right, you installed the first R1200 beta for a friend.
  16. terryckdbf

    terryckdbf Bumbling BackRoad Riders™

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    "R1150 VERSION NOW AVAILABLE @ Beemerboneyard.com!
    <!-- #dg-post-title --><!-- message -->Hi Guys,
    Well, it took a little longer than I had hoped but we just received the first batch of 24 BMW-AF-XiED units for the R1150 series bikes. You can see and/or order them here: http://www.beemerboneyard.com/bmwafxied1150.html

    Stay tuned here for future availability of R1100 and R1200 units, just waiting for connectors to make the plug and play harnesses with. Thanks!
    Mike

    PS, these work unbelievably well. Took off the Power Commander Wide Band I had on my bike and won't switch back! It is that good!
    <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
    Mike Figielski"


    Guys, Putting it in perspective,

    Six months from:

    "Gosh, look at all this data I've aquired with all these parts spread from one end of my workbench to the other, I wonder if someone could make a compact unit, adjustable, plug and play, for a "niche" market, bring it in at a price point resembling a labor of love, so the collective could benefit from my original curiosity?"

    To: These things are available.

    In this world of instant this and that, the developement, testing, manufacturing, and final deployment has been quite fast for the business world.

    Six months from napkin to fruition is nothing to apologize for. Kudos to Roger, Nightrider and Beemer Mike.

    Terry
  17. esorensen

    esorensen n00b

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    Forgive my ignorance, I've read the entire thread, wouldnt it be easier to replace the stock injectors with similar units that flow the extra 4-6%, and let the Motronics figure that out?
  18. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

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    would not the motronic simply open them for smaller intervals to keep the A/F ratio its designed for?
  19. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    Since the arbiter of the correct mixture is the O2 sensor, it works the other way around. If you put in larger injectors or raise the fuel pressure but left the stock O2 sensor (lambda=1, or 14.7:1) the Motronic would shorten the length of fuel pulses so that everything returned to the way it was with the stock injectors.

    The beauty of "lambda shifting" is that by dropping the Lambda point of the O2 sensor (to say 0.94) the Motronic figures out on its own how much fuel to add to the fuel tables to produce the richer mixture. Most of my effort here was to make enough measurements to confirm that it would do what was desired without after-effects and without the effects being lost over time. The data is unequivocal, it works.

    RB
  20. roger 04 rt

    roger 04 rt Long timer

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    R1100RT OPEN LOOP FUELING, No Coding Plug (no CO Pot)

    In the spirit of a picture is worth a thousand words, here is a chart I've been hoping (and waiting) to post for a year. You can look back one page for the Close Loop charts and commentary: HERE.

    [​IMG]

    Michael in BC, Canada, who has installed the LC-1 on his R1100RT was kind enough to reset his Motronic, remove his BoosterPlug, remove the Yellow Coding Plug (left the O2 sensor attached), and log a couple 40 minute test runs logging AFR data with his LC-1. There is a wealth of information in this small diagram.

    First, the conditions:
    Temperature: 70F
    Coding Plug: None
    CO Pot: None
    O2 Sensor: Installed & Connected (but being ignored by the Motronic)
    Motronic: Reset
    Fuel: Premium with 10% Ethanol (4% lean compared to gasoline)

    Looking at the chart above it is very clear how the R1100RT fuels without a Coding Plug. Since the CO adjustment target, if a CO Pot were installed, is 1.5% carbon monoxide (implying a gasoline AFR of 14.0:1) we can make an educated guess about how this chart will look with the CO Pot connected and adjusted, a test that will be made soon.

    Although it would be more precise if I wrote these descriptions in terms of Lambda, but most readers are familiar with gasoline AFRs, so I have put everything in those terms.

    First, I've carefully looked over two charts from this test run. Although the O2 sensor is installed and connected, it is clear that with NO Coding Plug, the Motronic does not make any use of the O2 sensor. This means that No Coding Plug is a fully Open Loop fueled R1100 motorcycle. I believe that a 30-87a (beige) Coding Plug will yield the same results.

    Next, the idle AFR with no CO Pot connected is a very rich 12.4:1, were this motorcycle running pure gas at the time of the test the AFR logged would have been 11.8:1. At start-up on a 70F, the fueling is about 5% richer than that for several minutes while the motor warms up. Although this bike runs well with no CO Pot, it would be better to have it. An idle AFR of 13.8 to 14.0 would be fine.

    Next, take a look at points 3 & 4 on the chart. Point three is the AFR while cruising at 40 mph and point four is while cruising at 65 mph, with AFRs of about 13.8:1 and 14.8:1 respectively. If this engine were running pure gas (what the fuel tables were designed for) that would mean AFRs of 13.2:1 and 14.2:1 respectively.

    When the CO pot is adjusted to 1.5% CO, I expect those cruise AFRs with pure gas to be 14.0 and 14.4 respectively, effectively compressing the AFR spread. From this data one could conclude that the Oilheads were designed by BMW to cruise with an AFR in this range. This is well supported by the results several of us have seen with LC-1s and BMW-AF-XIEDs on our R1150s.

    Looking closely at the AFR spreads between idle, 40 mph cruise and 65 mph cruise it isn't too hard to infer what the Motronic does with the CO Pot signal: it adds or subtracts an amount of time to the Injection Time calculation. In this way, it has a lot of effect at times when the Injection Pulse Times are short (like at idle and light cruise) and much less effect when Injection Pulse Times are long (like during acceleration and high-speed cruise).

    In the No Coding Plug configuration, the Motronic still displays the same array of acceleration and deceleration enrichments and enleanments, still shows Overrun Fuel Cutoff and still shows a Warm Up enrichment sequence.

    There's a lot to see and think about in this chart and sometime soon we'll have one run under the same conditions but with a CO Pot installed and adjusted. In the meantime, this points the way to a surge-free, best running Boxer Motor (R1100, R1150 and even R1200). Fuel it at 14:1, one way or another.

    RB