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Discussion in 'Vendors' started by roger 04 rt, Dec 13, 2011.
Thankyou, I'll check it out.
Just did a search and found the NGKs, the Autolites, on an Aussie site came back with a recommendation of a #3923 or #XS3923 and didn't list #3922 for any 1150 models which is confusing.
With my lambda set to 0.94 I can't tell any difference between single and dual electrode plugs so I switched back to stock dual electrodes.
3923 is the right plug for 1100.
3922 is the right plug for 1150.
But I haven't got the AF-XIED yet Rog I do like to clean and adjust them when I do the 5k/klms services too.
Thankyou Wanderer - noted.
I refitted the Dobeck TFI in the correct format and my 1150 is running well now.
It's not my preferred option but while saving for the AF-xeid at least the bikes fun to ride again! I'd like to know how the TFI works with the motronic though so I know if there is anything I should look out for or worry about so here is a run down of what I've done so far.
I rebuilt the TB's using Dan Cata's kits - good value though I replaced the butterfly bolts with stainless M3 countersunk bolts.
I didn't do a Zero Zero as I hadn't disturbed the throttle stop screws, and reset the TPS using a volt meter at 360mv +/- 2mv then reset the throttle cable by tightening it until it started to change the volt meter reading and then backed it off one full turn, and then sinc'ed the R/H side by eye for a basic setup.
I used a homemade manometer with two stroke oil to balance the TB's and ended up with very good balance from idle and up to 4krpm.
One thing - while doing the TBs I took the Dobeck TFI off to bring the bike back to standard and was surprised to find that the Dobeck was set up incorrectly even though the PO had it installed at a big BMW dealership with a good rep! The TFI was the one that works with NO o2 sensor and yet my sensor is present and was connected!
With the TBs done I rode it for a couple of weeks to see how it settled down.
As I expected the bike ran and idled a lot smoother but still had the usual twitches and jitters up to 3krpm. I then had the R/C mega set up to fit which worked out quite neatly. It's not over loud as the collector suppresses it a bit,
but the cages can definitely hear me coming. No pronounced change in performance - perhaps a bit better up top - you could hear when the fuelling was off in the rev range with the clearer and louder exhaust though.
Next I got some fresh Iridium plugs and was about to spring for the AFxeid
and then had a disagreement with police officer about correct overtaking procedure which cost me $300 and 3 points.
So being stuck for a bit longer I refitted the TFI correctly, disconnecting the O2
and have a smooth running surge free bike that I can live with while saving up again.
Any thoughts or advice on how this setup will hold up over the next few months would be welcome, I know it doesn't work with the monotronic but 'around' it.
Hi Maurie, Glad to hear you're making progress while you save up. I fitted a Techlusion EJK to my 1150 not too long ago. You can make it work but it has limitations. The model I tried "uses" the O2 sensor at idle. Here is my report: http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24964069#post24964069.
I was wondering which part of the Monotronic was still in use with the O2 disconnected. I don't know if it's in "limp home" mode or open loop or whatever. Guess i'm just looking for reassurance that i'm not doing something harmful so as not to be worried while I save up again.
Roger- is it true that t Af isn't working its magic until the engine is warm? Started my bike in 40 degree weather . Wouldn't that be open loop?
The simple answer is that during warm-up your bike is Open Loop. It fuels based on: RPM, TPS angle, Oil Temp, Air Temp, Battery Voltage and Barometric pressure. The 1150 stays Open Loop until the oil temperature sensor registers 60C or about 140F. Then it runs in Closed Loop.
Generally, there is about a 15% fuel enrichment after starting that declines to a few percent enrichment just before going Closed Loop.
However, after you've ridden the bike for a few tanks of fuel the effects of Lambda Shifting (whether by AF-XIED or LC-1/2) show up in Open and Closed Loop. Meaning that the "magic" you mentioned affects all fueling--see step 6 below. Below is a description I've posted in other forms before:
Rather than think about an Open Loop and a Closed Loop map, a better picture of what's going on is as follows:
Each fueling calculation starts with the Base Map (not Open or Closed Loop) or Fuel Table, whatever you call it.
1. Read Base Map using TPS angle and RPM.
2. Interpolate in between values. In other words if your RPM or TPS is halfway between cells in the table (likely) calculate an amount of fuel that is halfway between the two cells.
2a. Read Oil Temperature. If engine is cold, increase fuel 15-20% based on temperature and time since start.
3. Read Air Temp. Adjust slightly based on temperature, from a table.
4. Read Baro Pressure. Adjust slightly based on pressure, from a table.
5. Read Battery Voltage. Adjust slightly based on voltage, from a table.
6. Read Long Term Trim (from a previously calculated value). Adjust fueling. Adjustment may be up to about 20%!
If Closed Loop isn't possible. FIRE FUEL INJECTOR based on above calculation.
If Closed Loop is possible (determined by engine Load, rate of TPS change, RPM, engine temperature and time since start, etc.), continue the fueling calculation.
7. Read O2 sensor, check & run next step of Closed Loop algorithm (omitted here for simplicity). Update Short Term Fuel Trim. If Short Term Fuel Trim is significant or has been stable, adjust LONG TERM FUEL TRIM.
8. Adjust fueling based on Short Term Fuel Trim.
9. FIRE FUEL INJECTOR based on above calculation.
So the answer to the question about Closed vs Open, is more about how the fueling calculations are made, not about different tables.
In addition to Roger's excellent explanation, we can define the "warm up" period before Lambda factors take effect. While an 1150 Oilhead may require several minutes for the Lambda sensor to come into play, a GS-911 shows my 2011 Camhead needing as few as 35". I do not know how long yours takes but if we are referring to your 2014 my guess would be it uses the O2 signal very quickly also. Manufacturers & EPA want Stoich as soon as possible for many reasons.
It's a f800gsa 2014, and I was wondering because the fueling felt different when the bike was cold and got more refigned as it warmed up. I'm not even through my first full tank of gas yet and I'm set on 7.
The fueling when cold may improve. Give it time. Let us know. Try setting 8 after several tanks of gas.
I installed an AF-XIED on a 2015 R1200RT. Now, I am seeing a draw on my battery. Is this the proper place to ground the units (see pic). This cable leads to the negative terminal. Is there a better place? Is it possible for the AF-XIED to cause a draw on the battery??? Thanks.
The AF-XIED draws no current with the key off and only a little when running. How did you determine that there's a drain on your battery?
It looks like you've connected it to ground at the starter. That should be "okay" since the starter normally draws no current. Is that also connected to the frame?
Usually it's recommended that you connect them at the battery.
I am sure the AF-XIED is not causing an issue, but more questioning if this is a good way to hook it up. I think I will rewire and attach to the negative terminal anyway. I am using an Optimate 4 for charging and I think the difference I was seeing was the difference in charging through the power socket or charging through the SAE connector directly hanging off the battery. If I charge directly to the battery all looks fine (charging through the power socket it seemed it never fully charged with the .2 amp light always blinking but that may be a canbus deal and a topic for another thread).
Thank you for your reply and insight!
The draw is from the BMSK.
The AFXIED gets its power from the O2 sensor heater tap which is off when the key is off.
No load from the negative, connect to the Battery -
That's the starter's 12V+ terminal -- main feed from the battery. The starter is grounded through the engine case.
I missed that - good catch. It would still work as a ground except when the starter was actually cranking.
Not correct though.
Thank you all for the advice. I moved my grounds to the negative terminal as the instructions recommended. Why I didn't do that to begin with is beyond me (that starter anchor point must have been calling my name). All is well.