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2009 990 Adv stalling/fueling issues etc...

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by Gluaisrothaí, May 17, 2009.

  1. Gluaisrothaí

    Gluaisrothaí Feckin' gobshite

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    547
    Location:
    Alameda, CA
    Hey,
    I've got a brand new '09 with almost 300 on the clock. Suffering from stalling issues, very low idle and wicked backfiring along with spitting back into the airbox. This is with Akras fitted; the stalling was there with the factory exhausts too.

    (Plus the oil pressure light doesn't work at all but that's another issue that I'm sure will be an easy fix:)

    According to the dealer the '09s use a new ECU which required a new diagnostic tool that hasn't reached the dealers yet....just a heads up for anyone with an '09 looking at putting on new pipes- ask your dealer if they're aware of the compatability issues with the older diagnostic connectors.

    Also wondering if anyone else has seen these issues...other than the low RPM instabilities the bike is nice and smooth, seems to have a ton of ready power compared to my '04 950 Adv. The ABS is nice (ish) but the front suspension is still way under sprung and overdamped. Off to SPS for that fix....

    KL
    #1
  2. jamesbrown

    jamesbrown Lefty tighty.

    Joined:
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    6,413
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    I presume you've tried to adjust the idle to ~1400? Sounds like it's running lean, which will happen with the Akras installed (better air flow). It also sounds like the dealer hasn't remapped for the Akras. You could try the 15 min. idle trick, but that won't have the same effect as a remap.
    #2
  3. crashmaster

    crashmaster ow, my balls!

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,564
    Location:
    Alaska
    Try a little experiment. Take off the secondary butterfly valves in the throttle bodies and see how it runs. It takes all of 30 minutes. I did it to my stalling 2007 and the stalling has been gone for 1000 miles so far.

    I had the same symptoms as you, stalling at low RPM or when pulling the clutch in to shift, low sputtering idle around 5 to 800 rpm occasionally. Now that said, everytime I took my bike into the dealer and they "fixed" the bike, it would run fine for a while, then the stalling would return.

    Hopefully my bike will continue to run without the stalling issues now that i have removed the secondary butterflies, but only more miles will tell.
    #3
  4. Gluaisrothaí

    Gluaisrothaí Feckin' gobshite

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    547
    Location:
    Alameda, CA
    Thanks James, I believe the idle on the 990 is set by servos moving the butterflies around so it can only be adjusted with the diagnostic tool and hookup to a laptop. Apparently if you try to cheat by overtightening the throttle cables it will cause an error code eventually.

    Now this is something I will try next week when I get the bike back if the issue hasn't been fixed. Your symptoms sound like mine. It's a real PITA when you can't trust the bike to keep idling when clutched....

    Thanks
    KL
    #4
  5. jamesbrown

    jamesbrown Lefty tighty.

    Joined:
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    Interesting - I assumed there would be some means of adjusting the idle manually on the 990 too. Did you try the 15-min idle trick after installing the Akras? It may make a difference, although I think it's intended for calibration rather than large changes (as in the remap).
    #5
  6. crashmaster

    crashmaster ow, my balls!

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,564
    Location:
    Alaska
    Just to follow up, the stalling issue has been seen in quite a few 2007's. MOTOSOTO is getting a new bike from KTM after countless trips to the dealer and KTM USA. However it took him over a year of those shenanaigans to get a new bike.

    Frog had the same problem and wound up making a deal with KTM for a 950 SE.

    I've had mine back to the dealer half a dozen times for the stalling. They did fuel pump tests, ECU tests, all sorts of maps were loaded, sensors replaced etc. Each time, the stalling would disappear for a while, then return.

    At this point I am fairly convinced that the servo controlled (or is it a stepper motor?) secondary butterfly valves are the problem. Like I said, have 1000 miles so far with no issues, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
    #6
  7. Gluaisrothaí

    Gluaisrothaí Feckin' gobshite

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    547
    Location:
    Alameda, CA
    I tried the idle trick myself, and it was also done at the dealer after a minor adjustment (it's called acclimatization....on other vehicles I've heard it termed "learning idle strategy").

    Didn't work either way :D
    #7
  8. Gluaisrothaí

    Gluaisrothaí Feckin' gobshite

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    547
    Location:
    Alameda, CA
    ...but I think this is the obsolete part anyway....



    :D

    Attached Files:

    #8
  9. Venteuri

    Venteuri I don't give a shit

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2007
    Oddometer:
    18,529
    Location:
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    know it must be silly, but always start with the simplest things..... Did you check if the low octane wires are connected?


    Also, turn the bike on without touching anything and let it iddle up to 3 bars ... the start riding.
    #9
  10. Gluaisrothaí

    Gluaisrothaí Feckin' gobshite

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    547
    Location:
    Alameda, CA
    Low octane wire is connected (so in normal mode), I've tried idling up to 3 bars. No joy....thanks..

    KL
    #10
  11. Venteuri

    Venteuri I don't give a shit

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    And there is continuity, right? ... make sure the octane wires are not broken soemwhere.
    #11
  12. Gluaisrothaí

    Gluaisrothaí Feckin' gobshite

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
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    Location:
    Alameda, CA
    I hear you bro'. It's a good question- if I have issues elsewhere in the loom that's a warranty issue for sure. I could be searching for that for years.

    Thanks
    KL
    #12
  13. Helmet Head

    Helmet Head Have bike, will travel...

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Oddometer:
    455
    Location:
    N43° 42' 55", W72° 18' 30"
    Apparently, you can adjust the idle on the FI 990's. I haven't done it, but I found this here:
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279319

    Does your bike stall all the time or just some of the time? Some FI bikes have stalling issues with fuel-tank pressure. If your bike does it only after riding for a while, try opening the fuel filler caps and see if the bike rides okay for a while after that. If so, that might help point to a source of the problem and possible solutions.
    #13
  14. Gluaisrothaí

    Gluaisrothaí Feckin' gobshite

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    547
    Location:
    Alameda, CA
    That's awesome! This will be the third thing I try (after letting the shop look at it and removing the secondary butterflies). I wonder if the idle cable from the 950 model could be retrofitted.....

    41 60031025000 STOP SCREW CPL. 1 $68.08
    #14
  15. Bok Befok

    Bok Befok Been here awhile

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
    337
    Location:
    Montana
    i run the standard map with the akras and no problem.
    #15
  16. azkiwi

    azkiwi message in a bottle

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    Location:
    Upstate AZ
    Yabbut this is an 09 (new and different ECU).

    It makes you shake your head when the new engine management system seems to have the same flaws as the last one. OTOH maybe there's a clue there. :scratch
    #16
  17. Helmet Head

    Helmet Head Have bike, will travel...

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
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    Location:
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    It could be worth a try. The stop screw on the 990 is a 5mm. Does anyone with a 950 know what the diameter of the threads on the idle-adjust cable are?

    I haven't had any stalling problems, but I've always felt my idle was a tad low, so I decided to play around with it.

    The throttle-stop screw is indeed behind the little triangle of plastic on the left side of the airbox cover (click for large image):

    [​IMG]

    You can see that there is a gap between the top of the screw and the bottom of the throttle rocker (or whatever it's called):

    [​IMG]

    The screw that is there is an allen-head set screw. The problem is that, given the confined space and the tiny opening, it's next to impossible to get an allen wrench into the bottom of the screw, let alone turn it. So, I went to the hardware store and just about the same diameter and pitch bolt with a standard hex head. I moved the locking but onto the new bolt and put it in place. With a hex head, you can move the bolt by hand to adjust the throttle opening at idle, and then use a 6mm wrench to tighten the nut down to lock it in place.

    It helps if you have someone else to hold the tank while you make the adjustments so that you can keep the connections hooked up and do it with the bike running. Just a tiny change in the screw makes a big difference in RPM, so you wouldn't want to do this by trial-and-error of removing and replacing the tank each time. :deal

    I moved my idle up to around 1,600. I'll do a short ride tomorrow and see what it's like.
    #17
  18. crashmaster

    crashmaster ow, my balls!

    Joined:
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    5,564
    Location:
    Alaska
    So this is the actual idle adjustment? Does it affect how much the secondary butterflies are allowed to close as well?

    thanks.:thumb
    #18
  19. Gluaisrothaí

    Gluaisrothaí Feckin' gobshite

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2007
    Oddometer:
    547
    Location:
    Alameda, CA
    I haven't gotten my '09 out of the shop yet, but I'll be trying this out first thing when I do!

    Thanks for doing the process development HH!

    KL
    #19
  20. Helmet Head

    Helmet Head Have bike, will travel...

    Joined:
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    Oddometer:
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    Location:
    N43° 42' 55", W72° 18' 30"
    I don't know for sure, since I've already removed mine, but I don't think so. I believe the secondary butterflies are controlled by the ECU, whereas the primary butterflies are controlled by the throttle.
    #20