2009 F650GS weird behavior. Any suggestions?

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by Ron Lucas, Sep 28, 2018.

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  1. Ron Lucas

    Ron Lucas n00b

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    Bike starts as usual only with half a sec of delay. After ignition it does another selfcheck.
    Battery good, rotor changed and in working condition, electromotor checked, contacts checked.
    Can it be a sensor issue? If yes, which one, where to look?
    Thanks for any suggestion
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  2. speedz

    speedz Adventurer

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    What about your trip meter and clock?
    Mine did the same thing as yours and some weeks later it would zero my trip (not the odometer) and also the clock. Now the whole cluster has stopped working. Dealer wants to replace it but I haven’t gotten around to it.
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  3. Grinzold

    Grinzold Adventurer

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    How do you figure "battery good"? That's an electrical issue. Take out the battery and check it with a battery tester/tender. In the video, it started cranking, stopped, then started again. If the battery checks out, then some wiring is busted. While running, the battery terminals should be at 14+ Volts, if they are not, you might have a burnt rotor/stator (generator).
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  4. Ron Lucas

    Ron Lucas n00b

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    trip meter and clock do not reset, it is not a battery issue. Changed battery with mine from the 800gs (same specs) - same shit. Measured everything with the tester, showing [email protected], 13.65V at standstill, 11V while cranking. Some wiring busted - maybe, but where the hell, how do you detect that? No obvious damage to be observed
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  5. yaycep

    yaycep Been here awhile

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    There seems to be a short to ground somewhere, the starter motor is clearly hesitating. Perhaps the starter relay going bad or something.

    On second watch & thought, you simply can’t conclude a bad starter with a youtube video, but cranking is definitely causing an unexpected voltage drop in the system. Battery would still be a suspect unless you verify the crank voltage with an oscilloscope.
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  6. Dorito

    Dorito Dreamer and Doer

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    Any reason you didnt use a battery load tester?
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  7. Ron Lucas

    Ron Lucas n00b

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    don't really know what you mean, what does a battery load tester do?
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  8. shuswap1

    shuswap1 Long timer

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    A battery load tester just puts a known load on the battery to see how it holds up (voltage)under the load. I never bother with this method, just turn on the key with a volt meter attached to the battery and see where the voltage drops to and how long it holds above 12 volts, how fast it drops. I don't have numbers for you, but after 5 min with the key on/headlamps lit,(if they stay on?) the bike should still crank fairly normally. The real world test is cranking speed, which is the peak of load for the battery. For some reason my 2014 F700 cranks fairly slowly, always has....but the battery will probably get me another season's riding before it does the dreaded click-click-click-click and I have to look for a hard surface slope away from where we are sitting.
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  9. Ron Lucas

    Ron Lucas n00b

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    Ok, got that with the battery load tester.
    Fellows, it's not the battery. It's not about the battery, it is about the testing cycle which repeats after cranking (which is abnormal, imho)
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  10. yaycep

    yaycep Been here awhile

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    Nothing to do with the test itself. The dash test indicates just the power on. This means, your dash gets powered off when you crank. Now that you ruled out the battery, I would focus on the starter components.
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  11. BygDaddee

    BygDaddee Long timer

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    Battery if you ask me, that hesitation at start is a dead give away

    Jump start it off the running F8 you mention and see if it does same thing
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  12. Ron Lucas

    Ron Lucas n00b

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    Ok, finally an idea, I'll try that.

    But, to be precise, we have an F800GS - NO CHECKCYCLE after cranking and start and the F650GS - DOES CHECKCYCLE after cranking and starting. It is the same bike, it shouldn't make any difference, the dash behaviour should be the same and it isn't. That's intriguing me.
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  13. SpaffyPD

    SpaffyPD Adventurer

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    The Check cycle occurs when the dash first gets power. Your F650GS is going through 2 check cycles because it's "first" getting power 2 times on start up.

    When you key on your dash gets power. First checkcycle. As your starter is cranking your dash loses all power and thinks the motorcycle is off. Once your starter stops cranking your dash gets power again. Second checkcycle.

    Look at your dash on cranking. The neutral light goes out and even the needles go to their resting positions below zero. All power is gone. Your trip and clock may be on a second circuit. Those circuits get a tiny amount of power even when the bike is off so they don't zero.

    That's why everyone is saying the battery. Maybe your starter is drawing a huge load, maybe a short. If your 800 battery works fine in your 800 and does this on the 650; or visa vera if your 650 battery starts your 800 fine, sadly its probably not the battery. That would have been the simplest problem to correct.

    You need to figure out what is stopping power to be delivered to your dash on cranking. Not why there are 2 check cycles. Since your dash is only losing power on cranking it's something in the starting circuit. Battery, starter, relay, even the switch.

    Short of throwing parts at it, you need to find a wiring diagram or search for a wire/pin on the dash that is powered on "run" but drops voltage considerably on start/cranking and trace that back to whats causing the drop.
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  14. MITOK

    MITOK Adventurer

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    You can use a pair of needle nose pliers as a jumper to isolate the starter relay out of the system and see if anything changes. The starter relay in my F800GS is supposed to hold the contacts closed down to a release voltage of 1.2VDC but I found that even when my multimeter didn't show such a drop on cranking it would open the circuit anyway. That is to say, a battery problem (insufficient voltage while starter circuit energized) showed itself as a starter relay problem, and a multimeter was unable to show why.

    Aside from that, you can take apart and clean all of the ground connections that involve the starter, display electronics, and battery. I usually use sandpaper and then brake cleaner to accomplish this. It's entirely possible that one or more of the connectors feeding power to the display has corroded such that when your battery shows 11VDC as measured at the terminals, the display electronics are receiving far less than that due to the voltage drop associated with the corrosion.

    Your problem may not be the battery, but it could possibly be the voltage drop of the electrical circuit that feeds your display electronics. Dirty or corroded contacts act like resistors.

    If it were my bike, I would pull the starter motor, clean the +12VDC stud and the ground surfaces (for the chassis ground cable as well as the starter motor), disassemble the starter and dip the entire rotor in a cup of paint thinner, clean it and the brushes off with a clean toothbrush wet with paint thinner, dip it again, regrease the bearings when dry, check that the gaps between the armature contacts (where the 4 brushes touch) are to spec (ie not clogged with brush dust), and reinstall the starter motor. Not to be critical but your starter motor really does sound like it lags before cranking compared to what I'm used to.

    PS in answer to a previous question of yours, you can measure contacts for corrosion, and wiring for damage, by poking through the insulation with your multimeter and measuring resistance. Probably don't need to do this unless you see visible damage to a wire because undisturbed wires won't magically disintegrate and it's easy enough to spray electrical contacts clean even if you think they are working fine.
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  15. coromd

    coromd Corom

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    Disclaimer: I'm not super experienced in motorcycle mechanics (I can do chain/sprockets, pull body panels, basic wiring additions. Beyond that? To Haynes I go). But I'd double check the stator and triple check the battery.


    My '09 F650GS was doing the _exact_ same thing then it started having extreme difficulty starting (would take longer to start, then two tries, then not at all just click)

    First I thought it was a bad battery but I noticed that I was getting an EWS error on the dash and some people were saying it was the immobiliser antenna, but my bike wasn't part of the recall. Put the battery on the tender for a day and it worked fine for about a week and it started happening again.

    After a few days I figured out that my stator was the issue. It'd charge "properly" at 13.5-14v for about 30 minutes of my 45m-1h30m commute then it would then it would drop to 11ish volts (monitored via my phone in my mount and a Bluetooth OBD-II adapter).

    Replaced the stator with an upgraded aftermarket one and left the battery on the tender overnight and it's been working flawlessly for the past 4 months. No dash reboots, no EWS errors. Didn't even need to replace the battery.

    Stator failures on the pre-'13 650/800GS are very common. They run at 100% all the time and dump the excess power into the R&R/frame as heat, and they have very little in the way of cooling to prevent the stator from cooking itself to death. In '13 they added holes to the flywheel to improve airflow or some such and it supposedly helped but there haven't been enough reported cases in the forums to verify one way or another IMO.

    Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk
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  16. Ron Lucas

    Ron Lucas n00b

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    Thank you. this makes sense, I know it is an electrical problem but have no hint where to look for
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  17. Ron Lucas

    Ron Lucas n00b

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    Right, only the damn stator has been replaced about 10.000km with an aftermarket one (Electrosport)...
    If this go broken every 10.000km, it's not a good solution
    #17
  18. coromd

    coromd Corom

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    Bit late of a reply but my replacement recently croaked as well. Local motorcycle shop says there's a good chance that the old stator damaged the R&R, and the damaged R&R killed the new stator prematurely. Turns out that Electrosport has a 1 year warranty on the stator so it's worth a shot getting that warrantied, and I'd see about replacing the OEM R&R as well.
    #18
  19. dfowens

    dfowens Adventurer

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    I ride a 2010 F650GS twin and I to had the electrical problem as well very recently. Fortunately the battery survived. Meaning the deep drain on the battery as a result of the stator dying didn't also kill it. I replaced the stator and voltage regulator both from ElectroSport. Time will tell of course the longevity. Currently have 45k miles on the odometer. I bought it used and only have put 8k on it I assumed that it was the original but....
    #19