2009 F650GS won't start.

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by sidecar, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. sidecar

    sidecar Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    43
    Location:
    Raymond Alberta
    I have been having trouble starting the bike with it only starting on one cylinder until I hold the gas open quite a bit, then it will run rough for awhile until the second cylinder cuts in. I took things apart checked spark plugs, all ok, put back together and then it wouldn't start. When doing an injector test With my GS911, I couldn't hear a thing but my wife could hear a very faint noise. After some persistence I finally got it going again on one cylinder while opening the throttle quite a bit and then the other cylinder cut in and it ran fine. So I only ran it for a few minutes and then did the injector test again. Now the injectors sound normal when tested, quite loud like a little machine gun. Waited about 10 min. and did the test again, now #2 injector is very faint again but #1 is still good. Very interesting, obviously it is #2 cylinder that is having the most trouble when trying to start it cold. Why is this happening???? I didn't even run it long enough to get anything other than the actual engine a little warm. Seems like maybe there is not enough voltage getting to the injectors, with #2 being worse, what would the cause for this be. I also put jumper cables over from my RT thinking the extra juice might help, not luck. Any Ideas? I'm not going to put up with this for long, if it starts nice when the weather is warm I will sell it I think. Problem is it is the style of bike my wife wanted.
    #1
  2. tofire409

    tofire409 Geared up and ready.

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    901
    Location:
    Toronto, CDN
    I'd pm Joel Wisman he's one of the most knowledgeable BMW guys here.

    I hope it's just a clogged injector that Seafoam or another system cleaner can fix.
    #2
  3. JRWooden

    JRWooden never attribute to malice...

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,974
    Location:
    North Carolina
    If you take the little triangular piece of plastic off the side of the frame on the #2 side you should be able to see the fuel injector. A few light taps/raps with a butt of a screwdriver or such might free things up.

    Other commonly suggested fixes that seem to have worked frequently are:

    1) disconnect battery overnight to reset the computer, and let it "re-learn" the bike

    2) buy a bottle of Techron fuel SYSTEM cleaner (not fuel INJECTOR cleaner) put four ounces in every tank of gas until the bottle is empty.

    3) buy a bottle of ISO-HEET (red bottle not yellow) add an ounce or two of that to the next several tanks
    #3
  4. larlec

    larlec Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2003
    Oddometer:
    246
    Location:
    Bellvue, Colorado
    I had the same problem and it was, indeed, the injectors. Apparently the quality of gas is such that it clogs or ruins the injectors. Mine were replaced under warranty and the tech recommended fuel treatment (BMW or Techron) which I am using. This is especially important if the bike is not ridden regularly.
    #4
  5. sidecar

    sidecar Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    43
    Location:
    Raymond Alberta
    Well I put some sea foam in it yesterday and it started pretty good this morning with the second cylinder cutting in almost immediately, but tonight after sitting for a few hours it didn't want to start but did eventually with the second cylinder taking a very long time to catch. is there not a fuel filter on these bikes? If I change the injectors won't they just plug up again.
    #5
  6. JRWooden

    JRWooden never attribute to malice...

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,974
    Location:
    North Carolina
    There are two filters - there is a "sock" or fine mesh screen/strainer on the pickup and then a canister filter on the outlet side of the pump.

    Here's a picture I found of it: http://bikerboard.com/showthread.ph...-parts-fuel-pump-body-panels-brake-MC-TPM-etc
    #6
  7. sidecar

    sidecar Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    43
    Location:
    Raymond Alberta
    #7
  8. JRWooden

    JRWooden never attribute to malice...

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,974
    Location:
    North Carolina
    So... you've apparently never been warned about starting a sentence with the phrase "You would think ..." :deal
    Sorry I could not resist.... :lol3

    From what I have gleaned the filter really is very good, but ...

    1) "gunky" fuel that has junk dissolved in it can obviously get through, and then as the gasoline vaporizes at the injector the gunk gets left behind sometimes...

    2) Joel also commented that the aluminum oxide particles that are generated by ethanol corrosion of the pump are sometimes fine enough to get thru ( 5 microns or something tiny like that...).
    #8
  9. sidecar

    sidecar Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    43
    Location:
    Raymond Alberta
    :D Ya sometimes I manage to remember the I instead of You, still working on that.

    If I could just buy a better pump that didn't corrode ( without all the other stuff that ddin't need replacing) and new injectors and be done with it, I would be happy.

    Can the injectors be cleaned better if taken out?
    #9
  10. Indy Unlimited

    Indy Unlimited Long timer

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,993
    Location:
    Parker, CO
    Yes BMW has a tool to clean the injectors micro nozzles. I had my clogged injectors done at under 1,000 miles.
    I bring them as spares on a real long rides along with a GS911, ring antenna, fuel pump brains bypass wiring and an aftermarket stator.
    #10
  11. JRWooden

    JRWooden never attribute to malice...

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,974
    Location:
    North Carolina
    yeah... like Indy said, there are a number of places that can usually clean up injectors....

    Sourcing new ones from Bosch directly should be maybe <$75 each?

    There is a generic equal to the BMW pump that would cost < $100 ... alas we don't have the P/N.... :lol3
    Joel left it in his desk when left the BMW dealership :cry

    Sooner or later we'll figure that out ... a couple of guys on round-the-world tours have found pumps that worked ok... :clap
    #11
  12. sidecar

    sidecar Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    43
    Location:
    Raymond Alberta
    I have the injectors out and when I connect them to a battery they work fine but when I connect them to the harness on the bike and do a test they don't work. It seems to me they aren't getting full voltage. There is a steady 8 volts on the injector connector and it doesn't change when the injector test is done with my GS911. Ran cleaner through them while activating with the battery, the spray looked good right from the beginning and they showed no sign of being plugged but still will not activate on the bike.
    #12
  13. sidecar

    sidecar Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    43
    Location:
    Raymond Alberta
    I did get them working finally after cleaning them by fitting them in the end of a syringe and connecting the spray can of cleaner to the other end, filling the syringe and then using the pressure from the can to force the cleaner through the injector while I turned the injector on and off with the power from a battery, then they would run on the bike. So they must be running on lower voltage during the GS911 test and if there a little plugged they just won't move with anything other than a full 12 volts. Trouble is they still stop working once in awhile so I don't trust them enough to put it all back together. I think I will need to get them professionally cleaned. I hope I didn't damage them by putting 12 volts to them for to long, apparently that can be a problem.
    #13
  14. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,440
    Location:
    Nor Ca.
    What is the number on the injector? It might be cheaper just to replace them. An EV14 shorty 52 psi injector is $50.
    #14
  15. sidecar

    sidecar Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    43
    Location:
    Raymond Alberta
    # - 0280158038 but I can't seem to find anyone that sells them. EV14XT
    #15
  16. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,440
    Location:
    Nor Ca.
    There is always the dealer. I seem to remember they are $137 a piece.

    You can use a multimeter to check the electrical resistance. Should be 12.8 ohms. I do not know how to test them under load.

    I can find all the specifications for that injector but no cross reference to application. Makes it difficult to find another vehicle that might use it via the internet.
    #16
  17. JRWooden

    JRWooden never attribute to malice...

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Oddometer:
    6,974
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Thanks for looking .... it would be nice to find a source that didn't have $50 tacked on to the price to cover the fancy BMW packaging.... :lol3
    #17
  18. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,440
    Location:
    Nor Ca.
    #18
  19. sidecar

    sidecar Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    43
    Location:
    Raymond Alberta
    Thanks, yes I found that info also and have sourced them from Germany at a price of $145.98 for 2. That is going through a Bumper to Bumper shop in Canada. Trouble is it will either take 6 weeks for no extra cost or 7 days to Ontario and then the time to Alberta at a cost of $75. Quite a bit longer than I am interested in Waiting. I found some used ones from a 1200RT in Texas for $100 or I could buy new ones for about $280 U.S. I had them both working last night but when they sit they seize up again. They need more pressure and flow to clean them properly.
    #19
  20. itsatdm

    itsatdm Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2004
    Oddometer:
    5,440
    Location:
    Nor Ca.
    Probably a wise choice, if the valves, rods whatever are corroded, cleaning would probably be temporary.


    I wish Joel would chime in on the triggering mechanism for the injectors. The wiring diagram available does not do the job. It must be the ECU, as there is no other way to determine how long they stay open and that can only be done with the fuel maps. But it is done with electric current and there is no source to explain it or what levels of current are within spec. If there is any such animal.

    It might be helpful to world travelers if your source could tell you what other applications these injectors are used in.

    There are a couple of used injectors on EBAY for the 800st.
    #20