2010 Stelvio vs newer Stelvio

Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by muddyjj, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. muddyjj

    muddyjj Adventurer

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    I have a 2010 Stelvio 1200 4V. I have spent $$$ adding accessories to make it like the NTX model and I've got it set up just the way I like it. The bike only has 6000 miles on it. Sadly, I haven't had a lot of free time to ride. The bike is like brand new without a scratch. Recently I've read the Stelvio is going to be discontinued and at some point I may not be able to get a brand new Stelvio. Is the newer 3rd generation Stelvio (with larger tank and other upgrades) that much better than the 2010 to make it worth while to trade in my bike for a newer version. I've researched other adventure bikes and the Stelvio is my bike of choice. I'm hoping to find someone who has ridden both to make the comparison and give me some advice.
    #1
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  2. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    The biggest advantage to a later, post '13 model is that it will be a roller tappet motor ex-factory. Your 2010 is flat tappet and they will fail before 20,000km, no exceptions. You need to rollerise if you haven't already and if they haven't yet been done your swingarm bearings and shock linkage bearings need greasing but the new one will need that too.

    Apart from that if you buy an NTX you get all the factory fitted bling, a 32 litre tank and less crack prone forks.
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  3. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    It was the earlier 50mm forks that were particularly crack prone. Mainly because the pinch bolts were 10mm hex heads with a flange that encouraged shaved apes to over torque them. The *Fix* when the lowers were replaced was to use Allen bolts instead which made it harder to torque to yield on the bottom casting!:loco

    Personally I don't think the CARC swingarm is a good choice for an outfit tug but that may well be just me being paranoid. Do make sure you check the swingarm and shock linkage bearings though as they'll be as dry as a nun's chuff if they've not been looked at before.
    #3
  4. muddyjj

    muddyjj Adventurer

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    Thanks for the advice. Already installed all the factory bling + some. GPS, Windshield, heat shield for passenger, euro turn signals, just about everything except for the narrower rear wheel.

    I called the only dealer near me (3.5 hours away) and spoke to them. They have a new 2016 on the floor but I really love my bike so I asked to speak with the service department about the tappet issue. The service guy seemed to have no idea what I was talking about and said he wasn't aware of the tappet problem. Even suggested I shouldn't believe everything I read on the internet so i am concerned. I filled him in on the fact that there is a great deal of info out there about the problem and I suggested he read up on it. That said If I decide to keep my bike I think I can pull off the work on the bearings but the tappets are more than I feel comfortable with. Do you have any idea how much rolleriseing will cost and is anything covered by Moto Guzzi? I also read that in the warmer climates (I live in south Florida) the issue isn't as prevalent so I hope that may buy me some time... Anyway whatever I decide to do, new bike or "rollerise," I really think I want to stick with a stelvio. They are simple, easy to service and have a character all their own. Piaggio really screwed up by ending the stelvio line. I do have both a KTM dealer and a Triumph dealer nearby but I didn't like ether one as much as my stelvio. That said I may have to consider them now...

    Thanks again for the advice.
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  5. WitchCityBallabio

    WitchCityBallabio Guzzi weirdo

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    The flat tappets will go regardless of temperatures. On my 09, Guzzi covered the parts and I had to cover labor, which seemed pretty fair to me considering the bike was about 3 years out of warranty. It'll need to be inspected by a dealer and they'll have to put the claim in. If you buy the roller kit out of pocket, I believe it's 12-1500 bucks.

    Once the bike is rollerized, you can ride the wheels off it forever.

    I would stay away from a dealer that had never heard of the problem and considered it an internet rumor. There's a dealer like that near me too. I went to the other dealer near me who has done a shit ton of conversions.
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  6. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    If, like me, you rely on the fact that the valve clearances don't change as an indicator that everything is still OK you may well end up, as I did, with this result...

    [​IMG]

    To date I've done about a hundred rollerisations and I'm a tiny little two man shop in bumfuck Australia. The reason I've done so many is because I check every bike that comes through the shop with flats. Checking the left cylinder's tappets takes fifteen minutes, there's a video out there of me doing it, I'm not rushing, the video is thirteen minutes long.

    I've not seen a bike with over 20,000km that didn't look like this

    [​IMG]

    Or worse.
    #6
  7. Hoak

    Hoak Long timer

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    I have a 2016 Stelvio NTX and have also ridden the older Stelvio -- I like both and don't think the NTX is a definitively 'better' bike. While the fork clamps on the older Stelvios can be cracked if over-tightened, you can do this on any bike with this axle mounting system and they are the largest bore forks on an adventure bike making them laterally stiffer and flex noticeably less than the smaller bore forks that came later on the NTX (and less still then the forks on some other big ADV bikes). The older Stelvio's forks also seem to have better high-speed damping that combined with their lateral stiffness makes them one of, if not the nicest stock fork on an big ADV bike imho -- and you can even fine tune them with after-market cartridge kits. There are other details like this where the older Stelvio was given a little more attention to detail where it counts and the NTX had some cost/corner cutting going on . I also thought older Stelvio feels noticeably lighter due to its smaller different profile fuel tank even with more fuel in it, and has more handsome Luigi Stucchi accessories then the newer NTX, like a impressive rear mounted reserve fuel tank that looks like it was made by Moto Guzzi... Let Moto Guzzi veterans like WitchCityBallabio and Motomoda be your guides here though they both know a lot more about things that that count for the long term owner...
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  8. muddyjj

    muddyjj Adventurer

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    Thanks everyone!

    Can't tell you how much I appreciate all the help. Will work on the swingarm issue but 3 out of 4 dealers in Florida had no clue of what I was talking about when I asked about the roller tappet conversion. Hopefully all will work out with the 4th dealer. I will be more than happy if guzzi picks up the cost of the kit. will have to see how things pan out. Anyway thanks again!! I will update the thread when I hear back from the dealer...



    Yo
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  9. muddyjj

    muddyjj Adventurer

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    I spoke with the dealer today and also looked up the tech. bulletin and it looks like Guzzi will not provide parts as a preventative measure. Here is what I found:
    WWW.SERVICEMOTOGUZZI.COM
    Page
    2
    of
    12
    The repair operation may be different depending on the vehicle serial number, therefore it is
    important to follow the instructions in t
    he
    operational technical note
    below.
    Considering the company decision to make this exception and bear costs which it
    otherwise would not be bound to bear, please note that the operation will be carried
    out exclusively following careful verification of the
    vehicle fault. No preventive
    operations will be accepted regarding vehicles that do not have the problem of wear on
    the affected parts (bucket tappets)
    . We will monitor the correct implementation of this
    technical bulletin.

    The bulletin also said the vehicle has to be taken in for service to repair a noisy timing system due to wear on the bucket tappets. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look at it, my engine sounds perfect, no ticking or knocking, and I am concerned that if I trailer the bike 4 hours away to a dealer the claim may be turned down due to insufficient wear on the tappets. Any suggestions?
    #9
  10. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    Yes, buy the kit and forget about wasting your life screwing around with Piaggio who won't acknowledge there is a problem until you've had a handful of DLC run through the bottom of your engine.

    Chances are your dealer will deny there is an issue and will be scared to attempt it. This seems to be a fairly standard MO with a lot of shops. There are also many places that will charge absurd amounts of money to *inspect* the tappets, (A 15 minute job for the left hand cylinder.) and then tell the owner that their tappets are fine even when they are well shagged claiming that it is 'Acceptable wear'. It's a joke, just do it yourself or you'll be on a hiding to nothing.
    #10
  11. Lupin 3rd

    Lupin 3rd Raygun Gothic

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    +1 to the above. Also test rode a 2010 and LOVED it. Wasn't impressed with the dealer so got a great 2013 NTX on craigslist.

    The bigger tank is nice but I never really NEEDED it, only real advantage for me is the narrower rear rim that fits more off-road-ish tires. Still prefer the slimmer looks of the pre-NTX bikes, even occasionally touch myself down there when I see them... f*** TMI!


    :lol3
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  12. JNRobert

    JNRobert Breaking Wind

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    Will the NTX motor bolt right into a pre-NTX chassis?
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  13. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    All the motors are essentially identical apart from later, post mid '12 ones, having rollers ex factory.
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  14. bobw

    bobw Harden the phuck up

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    The situations when one needs Dealer support is the Achilles heel with Piaggio. The southeast has really lost options from where we were just a few years ago. I've discussed good shop options on a couple of the Guzzi Boards and not a bunch of glowing reports were shared. One of the guys near Charlotte had good luck with Matthews Fun Machines doing the heads on his Griso and it was their first one at the time. He was happy with the work and I'm sure they've done others since. (Not affiliated and only been there with a friend getting his fjr and spyder so I'm "neutral" on their competencies).

    You could check them out and easily ride up and fly home for only a few dollars and I'd gladly pay for a cheap plane ticket than a poor repair over and over again. A few more good shops farther away or maybe a good independent wrench closer to you? I would check on Wild Goose, Griso Ghetto, etc., forums as there are few owners around and those that may know of a good option may not be on here.

    Good luck!

    Cheers
    #14
  15. muddyjj

    muddyjj Adventurer

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    Thanks to everyone, especially MotoModa, for all the help and advice.

    I must say I am very disappointed in Piaggio. After reading the technical bulletins it is obvious that Piaggio is fully aware of the problem and doing their very best to keep from having to stand behind their product. Moto Guzzi owners are a rare breed and most of us are very loyal fans that love the fact that they own a powerful bike that is unique and full of character. If Piaggio would embrace that, stand behind their product, and provide proper customer support, customers would come back again and again. In my opinion, Piaggio should at a minimum provide repair kits to all original flat tappet bike owners. Better yet, they should have originated a recall for all flat tappet bikes. Why should someone who's meticulously maintained their pride and joy have to deal with impending permanent engine damage before Piaggio will take any corrective measures. It's just wrong.

    Thanks to the all the folks on this forum I can now ponder on what my next step will be. Unfortunately I'm the kind of guy who will feel like I've been hosed by Piaggio if I fork over $2500 US to rollerise my bike. Having to pay that much money to repair a design flaw that Piaggio is fully aware of makes me livid! Don't get me wrong, I love my Stelvio, but I don't know if I love it enough to forget about the way Piaggio does business, especially since I had a similar situation with a bum fuel sending unit when the bike was new. Maybe after seeing my bike sitting in the garage for a few days I will feel better about rollerising, but as of now I am seriously considering dumping Piaggio all together. I will use the long holiday weekend to decide whether I want to rollerise my Stelvio or move on to another make and model. The one thing I now know for certain is I won't be looking at a new Stelvio or any Piaggio product. I spent last weekend looking at several new bikes and I now have my sights on a certain "British" bike. Being a stubborn old man I'm leaning towards the purchase of the British bike . It will cost more in the long run, but it's a matter of principle

    If I calm down and decide to rollerise the bike, I may take bobw's advice. As WitchCityBallabi said once rollerised the bike should last forever and it will still turn heads when I meet up with other riders on Lake Okeechobee. There is also a KTM/Husky dealer near me called WMR Competition Performance that will work on all makes and models. They specialize in customizing off-road competition bikes. They will even do antique restorations. I have heard a lot of good things about them and they even have an old Hodaka Super Rat (my 1st bike when I was a kid) on display. I'll have to give them a call....Damn, if only I lived in bumfuck Australia.:-)
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  16. Outwardbound

    Outwardbound Been here awhile Supporter

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    Piaggio truly screwed the pooch on this one. They demonstrated a major misunderstanding of the MG customer; the kiss-of-death for a small marque. Their response had two effects:
    - Souring the impression held by many life-long Guzzisti. Lots of hard core aficionados lost faith in MG's commitment to solid engineering, and to the companies' desire to maintain their allegiance. MG owners are NOT like Aprilia owners.

    - In their reluctance to aggressively fix the problem (after they quit stone-walling), they drove the resale value of thousands of bikes into the dirt. Why should anybody take a risk on a used MG (and it's small dealer base) when the competition is comparably priced.

    While I really like the V85 replacement for the Stelvio, Piaggio's customer support would lead me elsewhere, at least until the bike had been in production for a few years to get all the kinks worked out.
    #16
  17. Forseti

    Forseti Long timer

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    I had an 09 stelvio. Put 125 000 km on it with the flats. New owner put another 80k on it last I heard. Still running the flats. Traded for an 11 and had it rollerized. Aparently too late. Ended up dealing it.
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  18. Dr AT

    Dr AT Long timer

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    Sadly, you are unlikely to get better support from another manufacturer. Last time I checked, my mates on british bikes had top end issues / cracked frames from minor falls etc. Forget about going german if you'd like the front of your bike to survive adv riding. It's a numbers game - a huge percentage of buyers are wannabee weekenders so the companies can almost rely on surviving warranty periods before any serious issues show up. It's relatively rate to have such a well versed and coordinated user base with people like Pete who openly share trade information. Almost makes me want to go visit bumfuck for a good session with pete( I've been saying that for 2 years...but just can't seem to bite the bullet ...can't imagine why...oh, yeah, the bike isn't frkd yet)

    Ultimately, YOU own the bike and it's future is in your hands. Ignore the parents, give her some tlc and enjoy a long happy relationship. Of screw her a few times and hand her on. Your call.
    #18
  19. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    Yeah, we're all disappointed with fucking Piaggio. Getting yer panties in a wad and bitching about how hard done by you are will make 100% of fuck all difference to your situation or the outcome for your bike.

    You have two choices. First sell it and spend some time packing your 'gina with sand and wailing about how how the nasty company screwed you over. Secondly, pull yer neck in, accept that the parent company are run by a bunch of dishonourable bean counters who couldn't lie straight in bed but accept that as the price one has to pay for owning and enjoying a weird, esoteric and unique motorcycle.

    Fix the damn thing. Or sell it. The choice is yours but please don't whine on about it. We're all in the same leaky boat.
    #19
  20. WitchCityBallabio

    WitchCityBallabio Guzzi weirdo

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    I had to rollerize both our Griso and Stelvio. The factory supplied the parts for both bikes and they were both well outside warranty. I had to pick up the labor for the change which was around 400 dollars cheaper than a full service tune on a Ducati or BMW. It was inconvenient, but I'm okay with it. Shit happens.

    Get it done and don't look back.
    #20
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