2010 Stelvio vs newer Stelvio

Discussion in 'Moto Bellissima: All Other Dualsports' started by muddyjj, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    Same story for me, apart from with the 'Turdio' I knew exactly what I was getting in to! Piaggio tried to knock me back on a kit for my Griso and I was one of their bloody service agents at the time! The bare faced gall and audacity was breathtaking! They kept asking for more and more photo's, reciepts, information, you name it! I just kept firing stuff off at them and they finally, and with very bad grace, capitulated!

    The Turdio was an 108,000km shitter with nothing going for it. No service history. Reciepts, nothing. I was given a whole load of flannel by the sales droid, (It came from a dealer!) about how the flat tappets were fine, (He made some pretty stupid and amusing noises when I told him I'd done a hundred conversions!) and then assured me that this one was "Fine and really quiet." When I got it down here it made a noise like a pair of hay-bailers screwing and was obviously well stuffed. I flung an 'A' kit at it, replaced the swingarm bearings, tuned it up, threw away the poxy K&N air filter the previous neglecter had stuck in in, (Presumably under some deranged illusion that it would turn his wheezing Turd into a Panigalle thrasher!) and apart from the odd knock and squeak it's been brilliant. You really can't beat them to death with a shitty stick! I'll be riding it around Oz next year. I might stick a new set of big end shells in it before I go. I might also stick a new clutch and a set of rings in it. There again I'm such a lazy byword for sloth I probably won't bother!:D
    #21
  2. Moronic

    Moronic Long timer

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    With any boutique manufacturer, you can complain about what they don't do. And what they don't do often makes you feel like a fool for what you assumed they would do. And then after that you can look at what they did do, and ask yourself where else you might find that much joy, and how much it would cost you.
    #22
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  3. Lupin 3rd

    Lupin 3rd Raygun Gothic

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    I get that you're justifiably upset about this, but can you point out a single manufacturer who doesn't screw up?

    BMW? Forks (F650GS - single, R1200GS); Swingarm (R1200GS); Shock mount that bends the frame (F800GS)
    Ducati? Swelling Gas tank
    Honda? Forks etc (Africa Twin)
    Triumph? Oil consumption (Tiger 800)
    Yamaha? Rims (Super Tenere)

    I'm not saying that Guzzi/Piaggio shouldn't have done much better - they f***ed up and should have just issued a recall and fixed all bikes. That said you may be disappointed if you expect other companies to behave like saints.
    #23
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  4. muddyjj

    muddyjj Adventurer

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    Agreed, the other companies have deficiencies as well and assuredly this wont be the last time a company screws up. Hopefully when they do there will be someone like Pete around to help. I am mechanically inclined but far from a professional wrench. That said with the expert step by step instructions and expertise Pete has shared on several other forums I now at least know what goes where and why... In fact I would give the conversion a go myself if I wasn't scared to death about screwing up the timing or worse yet, breaking the chain guide. Sorry if I sounded like I was whining, I was simply stating my opinion. It seems most folks agree that Piaggio didn't handle this well and yes all companies have issues but it is how they handle the issues that makes the difference. I am a Utilities Field Operations Superintendent for a municipality with a population of 100,000. In my profession customer service means everything so it really does ruffle my feathers when I see large corporations pull this shit. Actually I think it was the "tone" of the technical bulletin that "got my panties in a bunch." Lets face it, expecting owners to wait for hardened shrapnel to work its way through their engines and then expecting customers to produce everything except a birth certificate before Piaggio steps up to the plate is ridicules.

    Anyway, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I sold the Stelvio without fixing it first and once its fixed I won't have any reason to sell it so - I guess I'll keep the Stelvio until another adventure bike comes along that really knocks my socks off (and fits my 5'10" 200Lb. frame). The only problem now is finding someone to do the work. Unfortunately my father isn't doing very well and I don't feel comfortable about planing a long trip to the Carolina's even for a day or two. Additionally knowing now what I know about Piaggio, I really need to have the work done by an authorized Guzzi dealer. Of the 4 dealers I called in Florida, only one knew what I was talking about when I asked about the conversion. That dealer told me they have performed the conversion once on a Griso but never on a Stelvio. Needless to say I am concerned...
    #24
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  5. Dr AT

    Dr AT Long timer

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    I'm a bit confused by your logic. You believe piaggio don't offer product support / loyalty but feel obliged to use an authorised service agent even though your local agents have no experience with the conversion?

    If you feel uncomfortable doing the work yourself, why not use a non guzzi mechanic that you trust, and ask them to follow the detailed instructions available ?

    I'd much rather have a mechanic I trust following instructions than some generic dealer from a company I don't trust. ( am I correct that even pete is no longer an authorised guzzi dealer now peter stealems has taken over the oz stealership)

    Do it right, do it once, then enjoy the bike.
    #25
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  6. muddyjj

    muddyjj Adventurer

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    May do that. I was thinking about the possibility of an authorized dealer finding enough wear on the existing tappets to file a claim with Piaggio but I think you are right, the kit is $1100.00 on AF1's site. $1100.00 bucks is well worth the peace of mind and a hell of a lot cheaper than the new Tiger Adventure I was considering.

    I took Pete's advice about the swingarm service and thanks to Leafman's step by step instructions on guzzitech, I was able to pull off the job with only 1 small issue - Separating the CARC from the swingarm was a real PITA. It was "glued" in place but good...Had to result to using a sharp chisel to wedge between the two parts. Other than that all went well. Ordered a new rear tire while I was at it so it will be a week or so before I am on the road again. The guy that runs the shop that I will use to mount the tire and balance the wheel seems to be quite competent. I am going to discuss the tappet conversion with him. I feel fairly certain that with the instructions and all the information on line in numerous forums he will be able to handle it. Heck, I was about to give it a go myself but fortunately my better half talked me out of it. :nah

    Next project will be the steering bearings and then a reworked seat. If I'm going to keep her I might as well do her up right!

    Can't wait to get back on the bike. The weather is perfect this time of year in South Florida and a quick trip around Lake Okeechobee is long over do....
    #26
  7. Bigtime

    Bigtime Been here awhile

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    Muddyjj,, If you decide not to do the conversion yourself, AF1 Racing in Austin, Tx. would be my choice. First class.
    #27
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  8. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    A chisel? Jesus wept! Use a bottle jack between the shock linkage and abs sensor mount, it'll separate sweet as a nut. You may have to gently pry at the boot retainer to separate it but a fucking chisel??? Put the tools down and move away from the bike.......
    #28
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  9. muddyjj

    muddyjj Adventurer

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    Sounds worse than it was... I'm not that green and I wouldn't do anything to scar the face of the parts. After tapping the damn thing for 1/2 hour I read on another forum where someone had used a chisel. There was a spot where a blob of sealant was oozing from the bottom of the joint. Tapped the chisel a couple of times into the gooo just to get it started. From there I used a hardwood shim working my way around the joint to gently separate the parts. Didn't even leave a mark. I'm no pro but I knew what I was doing and I was very gentle. I have a pipe clamp that may have worked as you describe but I would have been concerned about breaking the sensor mount. I may decide to skip the sealant when putting everything back together. I wonder if using a very thin paper gasket material would be a problem? It would only be a few thousandths of an inch thick...

    Anyway, I was surprised to find the bearing on the shaft side actually had a fair amount of grease, the other was damn near dry...

    Thanks Bigtime, that's good to know. unfortunately i'm not in a situation where I can leave town right now. My 91 Year young Dad needs me and I can't leave town. That said i always wanted to ride up to the panhandle and over on I-10 to Texas. I have some friends there and it would be a fun trip.... I am going to discuss the conversion with the guys at a shop near me. They seem to be very good and have a number of vintage bikes on display. They are a KTM/Husky dealer but they work on "all makes and models" besides, I love checking out the old Hodaka Super Rat they have on display. They fully restored it. That was my first dirt bike back in the early 70's and I rebuilt it from the ground up . Ported and polished the cylinder, added reed valve , larger carb and stinger pipe. Ran like a raped ape and I think I may have used a chisel a few times on that one too!!
    #29
  10. motomoda

    motomoda Long timer

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    The sealant was originally applied because sometimes there was a slight misting of oil at the joint and a whole load of people got sandy 'ginas over it.

    The front boot is supposed to seal by the crush provided by the retaining ring being squished down on the boot when the bevelbox is bolted up to the swingarm. Unfortunately, while fine in theory, in practice it can weep. Only a tiny amount that isn't sufficient to loose any significant amount from the bevelbox but enough to cause the 'giny packing staining around the joint. The factory's answer was to glue the bevelbox on with about a gallon of silastic which makes the box difficult to get off, it's a PITA and completely un-necessary!

    On my bike I use no sealant and don't care about the slight staining, it only happens in hot weather anyway. For customers who are needy and paranoid I use a very thin smear of Threebond 1211 to seal it up again. NOT pints of gorilla snot!
    #30
  11. muddyjj

    muddyjj Adventurer

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    Thanks for the great tips and all the advice! I'll pick up some 1211 before I bolt everything up and next time I service the swing arm I'll use the bottle jack method...

    I need to get everything put back together before the weekend as some friends want to take a quick ride through the everglades and around Lake Okeechobee. 1 last ride before dropping the bike off for rollerization, Thanks again for all the help and great advice!


    #31
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