2011 LA-Barstow-Vegas Dual Sport Ride

Discussion in 'West – California, the desert southwest and whatev' started by GalacticGS, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. vintagespeed

    vintagespeed fNg

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    YES! i would've liked to see a waypoint at the road crossing for fuel at Baker though! we missed it and rode 20mi in before realizing......pulled up to the pump on fumes. :D

    otherwise it was awesome and the speed at which you guys loaded the tracks each day was painless. great work! :clap
  2. Strega

    Strega Black is a color

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    In all fairness, I just made some track waypoint edits to clean things up to make it easy for riders, I didn't create the route. Big thanks to everyone that put time in riding the route and coming up with great tracks!
  3. timholio

    timholio Adventurer

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    My Moose rollchart was useless - impossible to roll it after loading. Anyway the GPS tracks on my Garmin 60cx was excellent and I never used it before!

    I lost my iphone in the first 10 min on day one (placed in wrong pocket) and a sweep rider found it and I got it at the Ramada. What a well run event! Thanks to everyone who puts this together. Me and GalacticGS had no real issues and finished early each day.
  4. GK_The_German

    GK_The_German Adventurer

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    Agree!!!:freaky
  5. RAZR

    RAZR u may run the risks my friend but I do the cutting

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    lemme guess.... you ride a GS:lol3
  6. johngil

    johngil Reseda, CA

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    Guys, the rollchart is necessary on this ride for several reasons. The most important is to indicate the tortoise zones.
    The rollchart is the only way for the organizers to get the info to the riders. Hazards are also noted on the chart.
    I realize most still don't care about these things, but it is all part of the game that is played to get the necessary permits.
    My Countdown holder was very full, but worked fine.
  7. jimrobinette

    jimrobinette Been here awhile

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    About as far from it as you can get. As the SDAR guys call it: The Girl Bike. The mighty WR250R!
  8. jimrobinette

    jimrobinette Been here awhile

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    John,

    Having worked with BLM extensively on many land use issues, I understand their point and fully support it. I'm a big fan of BLM actually, so I don't want to blow off their requirements for permits.

    That being said, I fully disagree about the roll chart being the "only" way for the organizers to get the info to the riders. First, the rider instructions could have all the major important items listed such as the tortoise zones, major hazards, etc. The organizers then need to put out a GOOD map of the course. The one we received was horrendously bad. The EZ route in the legend was yellow, and the EZ tracks on the map were a combination of green and yellow, but mostly green. Then, there were also blue routes with no explanation in the legend! :huh I think you can clearly mark all tortoise zones on the map. You could even make the GPS tracks a different color to signify 30mph zones and then have a waypoint at the beginning and end of each zone.

    Hell, even the roll chart was jacked up when it came to tortoise zones. On Day 2, the note at the top said "SEC 1 ALL & SEC 2 EASY HAVE TORTOISE ZONES ON ALL DIRT ROADS (Highlighted in yellow)" and then didn't have anything highlighted in yellow for those two sections, but then had yellow zones highlighted in SEC 2 HARD? :huh So, the roll chart isn't gold standard. The rider instructions for Day 2 under "SPECIAL PERMIT STIPULATIONS" #3 said that tortoise zones will be "identified on your maps and roll charts." I didn't see any tortoise zones on the map on the revers side.

    I agree that a bunch of good info can be contained in roll charts. But, there are other ways to convey that information to riders than just a roll chart. I think there are many people who grew up on roll charts and are used to them, and don't want to move on to different ways of doing business. It seems like there is an inherent bias against GPS in the LABV ride, and I can't figure out where it comes from. If we don't evolve, we be come irrelevant. Many ways to skin a cat. I'm not advocating getting rid of the roll chart, as it can work very well. I'm saying lets get more info out there, and use all the tools that we can to convey the information the ride organizers want us to know and comply with. I'm not just trying to pitch a bitch, but offer suggestions on how to move forward to make the ride better for everyone.

    Here is a scanned copy of an excellent map that was given out at a small group ride out of Primm a couple of years ago. And you could do even more than this map. It even had areas where to stay out of, such as the dry lake bed, and even has lat/long in case you get lost off course. This was a simple example of what you can convey to riders. Just an example.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  9. adayinthedirt

    adayinthedirt Adventurer

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    So you blew thru the tortoise zones?
  10. jimrobinette

    jimrobinette Been here awhile

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    Nope. Ok, so I took a little poetic license. Looked through it and knew were those zones and where the speed zones were on Lovell Canyon Rd were, when I got it before the ride and THEN put it in my tank bag. I didn't NAVIGATE by it. And like in my previous post, I'm betting many people blew through the zones since part of them weren't marked on the roll chart like it said it would. How many looked at the roll chart that close to catch the mistake? Did you?

    Like I said in my previous post, I'm a big supporter of how BLM does business, and that may put me at odds with most on here, but I've seen the why and how they work and they do what they do for a reason. And fundamentally, from what I saw being passed numerous times in the tortoise zones on Day 2, I don't think many people were either reading or caring about the zones anyway.
  11. RAZR

    RAZR u may run the risks my friend but I do the cutting

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    so is this your first year on the LAB2V or any other D37 rides?

    also, before going any further with your points, best thing to do is go on District 37 forum and air it all out with the people who put this on. not on ADV where this thread was started to spread the message and get more ADV riders on this A++++ ride.


    http://www.district37ama.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5


    there are some great folks on the District 37 forum that can answer your questions and concerns.
  12. Strega

    Strega Black is a color

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    My own tracks had the tortoise zones marked with additional tracks and waypoints after I realized I forgot my roll chart holder and don't have a tank bag. Ended up stuffing my roll chart in my vest in case I got lost.
  13. jimrobinette

    jimrobinette Been here awhile

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    Yes for LAB2V, No to D37 or D38.



    Concur about taking it to D37. Already done that. But, I would say that my first comments were about roll charts in general, and then others brought up ride specifics, not me. I only responded with ways to improve things for both roll chart and GPS riders. It is a great ride and a blast to ride with great people.
  14. CA Stu

    CA Stu Peace and love

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    Me too, the only one I use.
    I think it's a bit deeper than the cheap imitations. :D

    I reckon that those of us that rode rides like this before GPS tracks were available are really are lucky to have that experience.
    In the unlikely event someone lost their cellphone (:augie) or had a GPS failure, not being able to read and follow a basic roll chart would be a real handicap.

    It's a hoot navigating without a GPS, I was a bit resistant to ride in someone's tire tracks at first, but now I use both the roll chart and the GPS.

    You can bet that my roll chart is read frequently and it's always on the right mile marker.

    I'm slow enough that it probably wouldn't make a difference, but a fast guy riding unaware of a big washout around a blind corner and hurting himself really badly has happened more than once on this very ride.

    I suppose if there was a way to slap a huge red X or a skull and crossbones on the GPS tracks, that would be awesome, but I dunno about how to do that....:dunno
  15. johngil

    johngil Reseda, CA

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    Many folks show up w/o a GPS or mono-chrome units.
    Just sayin'...

    The rollchart seems archaic, but has worked in the past w/ great success.
    I personally enjoy having both and a color screen on my GPS.
  16. fudgypup

    fudgypup Banned

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    My GSA comes standard with a soothing female's voice via bluetooth in my tortoise frenulum-lined helmet:

    "Right turn ahead."

    "Scary deep rut ahead"

    "hairdresser behind you about to pass and roost you"

    "Nearest Starbucks is 2.3 miles"

    :lol3
  17. Countdown

    Countdown Long timer

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    Do you have a new one with slotted shafts? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to cut a long roll chart in half at lumch and with the slots, only takes about a minute to load 2nd half. If chart is over 20 ft, it needs to be two halves. I have to do that on my Mammoth and HI Desert 250 rides. Just too many turns in a day.
  18. johngil

    johngil Reseda, CA

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  19. MJS

    MJS Long timer

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    Jim,

    I'm sure the D37 committee would love your help, did you just volunteer? :D

    A number of riders had Nuvi's or other street type GPS units that don't do tracks. I'll admit to using my GPS as a primary navigation unit but I also kept the roll chart on track, so to speak.

    Then there were the riders (at least four that I know of) that grabbed the roll chart out of the rider packet and never read the instructions. I know this cause they came back to the registration table looking for their rider number which was in the packet they threw away. :huh

    There was some discussion early on about having the GPS pop up a warning when in a tortoise zone and speeding. It was doable but left code buried in the GPS unit that was not easily removed. Not something the organizers felt they could or should do to other peoples GPS units. A lot of that info is part of the map product and not transferable to a track download.

    There will be discussion about the tracks and maps and how to make them better. Please post your comments up on the D37 site. FYI, the maps just barely got done and the roll charts went to print on the Monday before the event. More volunteers would help as this whole event is put together by just a handful of people.
  20. jimrobinette

    jimrobinette Been here awhile

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    Stu,

    I don't think anyone would not be able to read and follow a roll chart. When I did my first roll chart ride, I had never seen one before and used it with great success in Big Bear. Not hard to use at all, and I think they are about as simple as you can get.

    I too love different forms of navigation and keep all the roll charts from all the rides I've done. I enjoy reading them. :huh Seriously!

    John,

    Concur about using roll charts! Never had a problem with them, and think it is a great asset. My only issue has been resistance to using GPS. If a rider wants to use roll charts, great. But many of a ride's customers have moved on to using GPS, and if they are going to use it, you might as well realize it and make it as useful a tool as possible. If your customers aren't happy, they don't come back!