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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by harcus, Dec 3, 2011.
I find that 14 / 52 is a good compromise for the Utah terrain...IMHO
Nowhere...you have to create it. I ran a separate line from the battery (protected by a circuit breaker) forward to the headlight area. Connected that to a relay(in the headlight area) triggered withe the ignition key. That is used to power heated grips & GPS power. The grips need all the volts they can get. The grip switch is located near the LH grip for easy access while still holding the grip.
Nowhere...you have to create it. I feel that using existing wires like the headlight power does not provide enuf voltage. I ran a separate line from the battery (protected by a circuit breaker) forward to the headlight area. Connected that to a relay(in the headlight area) triggered withe the ignition key. That is used to power heated grips & GPS power. The grips need all the volts they can get. The grip switch is located near the LH grip for easy access while still holding the grip.
Pictures would be, of course, utterly awesome, sir.
ET, I second that. Got any pix, or a wiring diagram, Jim?
BTW, I find 15/52 great in Utah and around here locally.
Maxvert, I bought the Woody's Wheel Works cush hub and think it is worth the money for longer trips. I've seen high mileage 500 class machines with the splines on the output shaft rounded off needing replacement. Case splitting time. If you do a lot of miles that has some road involved this can save you headaches down the road.
Not being an electrical engineer I decided to go with this kit just to simplify the process. Everything is fused protected and you can choose between all switched
or 2 switched and 1 constant.
+1000, even if I keep repeating myself...
Show me a high-ish mileage powerful KTM/Berg that has been dual sported, and I'll show you a worn countershaft that requires splitting the engine to replace. Cush hubs are a good investment, period.
RAD and Haan are more bling, but OEM (stock on older LC4 640s will fit all 125-660) works fine. Avoid Talon as they use an inferior damping system.
We'll see the same thing happening on the 500 when they start accumulating enough miles.
Lukas's statement above is absolutely correct. Over time the driveshaft takes a beating. It's my 525 shaft in the pic and after a few hundred hours I noticed no wear on the shaft. However once it started, the wear progressed pretty rapidly. The 525 shaft had 470 hours on it in the pic.
The upside is that most people don't hold onto their bikes that long and so most new owners will not need to worry about it. its the second hand buyers on bikes with more than a few hundred hours that will have to weather the storm at some point (or if you're lucky enough to log good hours on the bike). The driveshaft itself is not expensive ($126 on the 525), its the hassle of splitting the cases. However most of us can't leave well enough alone and end up wanting to get inside the motors at some point anyway for modifications so replacing the shaft is no big deal at that point. I only have my shaft to go by but it took 470 hours to look that horrible.
Lukas did you notice a change in throttle response to the rear wheel with the cush hub? I've only ridden one big bore dirt bike single ( RFS ) motor with a cush and it felt somewhat lacking in a direct feel between the throttle and rear wheel. However it was a quick spin on a bike that I was unfamiliar with so not sure if it was the bike set-up (jetting) or cush hub altering the connection in comparison to my own bike. The 500 has a wonderful feel between the throttle and the rear wheel (due to FI and the lightweight crank compared to RFS motors) and not sure if my concern of the cush hub altering that connection is warranted or not.
Have you seen a '12 or '13 model 500 exc/xcw (or 350 for that matter) with worn output shaft splines already? I've seen pictures of the wear on the pre-'12 models, but these new bikes have the rubber dampers behind the clutch basket, and I'm wondering if they have been PROVEN ineffective.
A good question. I've not seen any high mileage 12/13 500 motors yet. My 9 month old 500 only has 70 hours so far. Mostly all off road and most of the off road riding has been with the stock rear wheel rather than with the WWW cush hub.
FTB -- I have not noticed much difference in throttle response with the cush hub and without. As the rubber spacers wear I might. If I do get that "sloppy" feel I will replace the rubber spacers.
Ok, due to popular demand, here is the auxiliary power circuit & photos for items like grip heaters. Remember, the problem we are solving is voltage drop. It is common to pick power off a headlight circuit to power items like grim heaters. The OEMs use small wire to power their headlights since they care little about the amount of light we get. This is further proven by the quality of lights they provide. The point is, with small wires, you may have 12 vdc at the battery but maybe 11 at the headlight. The more power you pull the worse it gets.
These photos are from my 500 EXC.
Here is the schematic...
The circuit starts at the battery. Look for the red wire. The wire is protected by a circuit breaker. This item is available at the auto parts store for about $4. Use std blade connectors protected with some heat shrink. A wire for the negative side runs from the coil attach point on the frame forward as well. It is not a good idea to run power thru steering head bearings. It looks like this...
The wire runs forward along the RH side of the frame to the headlight area. It terminates in a terminal block. I use term blocks to make it easy to connect all items plus replace damaged items like a damaged grip heater this weekend). The term block is mounted onto a bracket on the fairing. It looks like this...
The power is controlled by a relay (available for $4 at the auto parts store) that is controlled by the key switch on the EXC. If such a key switch is not available (like on an XCW) other methods could trigger the relay. It looks like this...
This brings extra power up front for anything. The switch for the grip heaters is mounted near the LH grip so I can flip it with my thumb. I made a bracket from alum angle & mounted it on an extra mirror mount like this...
I pull power from the term block to run my GPS & what ever else desired.
I hope this helps.
Thanks Stu for the feedback. Just picked a used 640 cush drive hub off Ebay for $20 as there were no other bidders. Either that or the thing is shagged so badly its hardly got any life left in it or it'll crumble like a poorly built Lego set.
Look carefully for cracks on the internal webbing and around the bearing supports. Also check the holes where the spokes mount to the hub. Cushioned hubs usually bring good money. If you get a good one for $20 you are very lucky!
I don't currently own a KTM but obviously the problem exists in other makes with RFS type thumpers.
The pictures you posted are excellent and illustrate the output shaft spline problem very well.
What I would like to add is that the damage (IMO) isn't limited to the output splines. When riding on paved surfaces the hard hitting (non dampened) power pulses effect everything in the power train. From the piston wrist pin to the tire tread.
In regards to a clutch damper;
I don't know about the KTM clutch damper springs,the clutch cush spring spacer washers in the Huskys hammer out and drop steel pieces into the oil and are no substitute for a rear wheel cush hub.
Dirt Rider apparently wanted to give the Best Of The Year award to the 500 EXC again. They must have felt that no bike, no matter how deserving, doesn't get the BOTY twice. They did say, racing the 500 EXC in a hare scramble, "There is a reason the 500 EXC is so popular; it works great just about everywhere. With plenty of power and surprisingly capable handling (given the number on the scale and the fact that the bike is street legal), this KTM is an awesome option. ... Nothing is perfect buy, boy, this bike comes close!" One rider commented that if the 500 were kept at just below full race pace it was a less tiring bike to hare scramble than 2-strokes. That brings you closer to placing than fading at the last.
Most interesting was the comment, "We've heard there are some substantial changes for 2014 to the EXC, and we can't wait to see what KTM does to improve on greatness." Greatness! That sums up my '13 500 EXC.
Thanks for the info, and is good to know that we are not the only ones thinking that our bike is awesome!
Surely the 500 EXC has quite a bit more torque than the 350 EXC, so I'd imagine the stock gearing should be ok on the 500 in the dirt, probably also depends of the type of trail riding you are into.
No way you're going to use the stock gearing (15/45) in the dirt. Stock gearing is only to get the bikes into the country and meet CARB/EPA (sound levels) emissions specs.
That was poorly phrased I meant 14/45 as stated by the other member. I know many probably wouldn't be happy with that gearing, but for my application that would be fine.
Some of us, but certainly not all of us, like hard edged bikes whether street bikes or dirt bikes. We live with compromises to enjoy them at peak performance. A 500 EXC geared 15/48, with a better saddle, a cushioned hub and larger gas tank would make a very capable dual sport if you want the ultimate in performance and handling off-road. Geared 15/50 it should be pretty well ready for the TAT. Some inmates have gone the other way and made their DR650/DR400s, as an example, more dirt worthy and they live with those compromises while apparently slanting their needs toward more hard surface riding.
The 350 EXC is a bike that could be considered for DS riding but this is a thread about a different bike, the 500 EXC.