2016 DAKAR "Cliffnotes" (lifeboat)

Discussion in 'Racing' started by troy safari carpente, Dec 29, 2015.

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  1. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    Looking at the times everyone finished today, I wonder how many racers came into the event, being fast guys where they come from, thinking "I might have a chance of being competitive". Then realizing the speeds the elite are racing at are now thinking....holy crap what have I gotten myself into. If not today then after tomorrows lengthy stage.
  2. Mikemm

    Mikemm Long timer

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    First videos of the crash I found.. im sure many will follow in the next 24 hours

  3. BC61

    BC61 Long timer

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    That's ugly. The second video and the middle pic below show the car was pointed toward the crowd before the rear even touched down.[​IMG]
  4. too old

    too old Keen supporter Supporter

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    This often gets said in rally's Ted and the gap widens day by day.

    It was only a short stage today but it will be interesting to see if the starting gaps have any impact, especially for the likes of Toby and Matthias, who certainly looked like they took it easy, but now find themselves with quite a few riders in front of them who may not have top 10 pace - will they hold them up or will they be able to pass - I recall also that it's 3 min gap for the top 10 starters, or was that just for that 1 crazy special later in the race?
  5. NoExit

    NoExit NoProblem

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    Tomorrow's start times have Laia leaving 29th, and Speedy Goncalves 28th after reseeding following delays on the mini prologue stage that saw them finish 108th and 49th respectively.

    http://www.dakar.com/dakar/2016/us/stage-2/live-timing/sector-1-df-bikes-hours.html#ancre

    By my reading this puts them 1-2 at the back of the pack of the elite (yellow number plates) riders, with only (amateur) white plate riders behind them.

    Some find this reseeding .... well seedy. Seems fair to me, though, but I'm happy to be convinced otherwise. Here's my rationale:
    - they're elite riders, now at the back among those against whom they're competing. The amateurs are not their competition.
    - there has to be some benefit to earning elite rider status. They've earned it by making riding their careers and earning past results in competition. Are there other benefits in the rules for earning elite status?
    - there's a lot more riding on their results than for amateurs/privateers: their careers, their teams, etc.
    - as a result, they'll risk more to fight through dust, traffic, etc, to gain back position
  6. BC61

    BC61 Long timer

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    Since yellow plates have their privileges why not score the race separately, pros and amateurs? Why do some factory riders not have yellow plates? How can some riders who are clearly professionals and top of their discipline come in as first time participants with white plates?
  7. too old

    too old Keen supporter Supporter

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    That's right, they are are the back of the 1 min spacing a after them it's 30 secs.

    For Speedy, ambitions of a win may be over before it starts, with the top 10 definitely starting at 3 min intervals and him off at 1 min with 27 riders in front it's going to be a hell of a job not to lose time - his current minute is nothing, but by the end of the day it could be much more unless he risks a lot today in overtaking!!!
  8. garfey

    garfey Scruffy Adventurer Supporter

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    I could not disagree more. Each one is putting his/her life on the line; none is worth more than any other. Pffffttt on "their careers, their teams, etc." - those are transitory and, in the end, of little importance to anyone but themselves. At worst, short of death, they can get real jobs like the amateurs/privateers do.
  9. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    Reseeding also screws the amateurs who are racing to win. Reseeding happens after a team throws down a 1000? Euro and protests.

    What about the guy who was in 28th who is now in 30th? He has more dust to contend with and less of a chance of gaining positions.

    Separating the elite from the amateurs is NOT in the spirit of the Dakar, a race where any person can jump in to compete against the worlds best.

    Re seeding after a prologue is even worse. The whole concept was for folks to earn their starting position. Laia screwed up, she should pay the price. Speedy had a mechanical, sucks for sure but pay the price...like 90% of the competitors would have to.

    Reseeding at the Dakar is lame. Heaven forbid an elite rider has to ride in the same dangerous conditions the other competitors have to. Heaven forbid their is only one set of rules for all competitors and they all compete against each other.
  10. BC61

    BC61 Long timer

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    Not at all

    The result was obviously ugly and unfortunate for the injured spectators. But it would be a lot of speculation and second hand guessing as to what really happened even with the video and pics. There could be arguments for driver error, co driver error, road book error, parts failure, the list could go on.
  11. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    That speed bump had to of been a !!! or a !! in the roadbook? Navigator not call it? Driver not take navigators advice? Communication error between the two? Lack of experience on the drivers part? Can a person rent a mini? Not blaming anyone, genuinely curious.
  12. neduro

    neduro Long timer Supporter

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    +1

    I clearly understand the rationale for reseeding... but I don't agree with it.

    On the yellow plate elite thing, I think it's crap too. Kurt went to Dakar with a yellow plate (and should have). But doesn't Ricky clearly deserve one from the same viewpoint?

    IMO, it should be all the same color plates, no reseeding, you take what you earn each day and continue from there. From the photos, that water crossing looked like something that would only be trouble if you rushed it... the photo of Stefan Svitko not rushing it is a perfect argument against reseeding.
  13. neduro

    neduro Long timer Supporter

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    Yup, and according to some I spoke to last year, the price is falling fast vs. when they were a factory outfit. You can rent a mini and a good codriver/ navigator and service for a 6 digit number.
  14. Hay Ewe

    Hay Ewe Just a Wannabe

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    Yes, that is the aim and goal of many, and should be all, organizations - sporting events, mining, manufacturing, transport companies, aviation.
    The reality is that it is very difficult in many cases. The Dakar is a high risk event and we have just seen that an amateur has had a significant accident causing harm to spectators.

    How could this have been avoided?
    By not allowing her to race? By limiting the speed? By limiting the proximity of the spectators?
    By affecting any of those three, the Dakar would very quickly loose its appeal to many people - like us.
    The spirit of the Dakar is allowing amateurs to race in the same field as professionals if that is limited, then what interest is there?

    What about the professionals - do they get it right?
    I can think of 4 right now that all died in major rallyes - and there are others
    Andy Caldecot
    Richard Saint
    John Deacon
    Fabrizio Meoni

    I work in aviation - in a high risk environment due to the location / geography / type of work / requirements (so not regular airliners)
    We are often constrained from carrying out a job because of the safety aspect.
    Don't get me wrong, safety is important but it has a risk of limiting what you can.

    I don't even fly. I don't even, work on the aircraft, I am back office pencil pusher basically, but had a conversation from the safety person for going down the stair case too fast and not holding on with at least one hand!

    When organizations say they want to have an even with no incidents - admirable - but achievable?
    Squily likes this.
  15. BC61

    BC61 Long timer

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    Lots to speculate....

    There was a link posted to pictures of what to appear as multiple road humps. They would have to be marked. From the little I saw in the past I'd guess at most !! though possible a !. It could be the proceeding humps weren't as steep and therefore felt they slowed enough.

    Lots to speculate....
  16. garfey

    garfey Scruffy Adventurer Supporter

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    Trying to backtrack to catch up prior to F5ITH and get the PCs set up on the "right" displays.

    Do I have this right:
    JBB away first @ 0800, ARG time,
    3-min intervals for the 1st 10,
    2-min intervals for the 2nd 10,
    1-min intervals for the 3rd 10, then
    30-sec intervals for those following?
  17. steved57

    steved57 Long timer Supporter

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    I'm not in agreement on the reseeding either especially a prolgue - it is what it is wherever you finish. I have great respect for Speedy and Laia but it's racing and where you finish is where you finish. My 2 cents
    Oh and Thanks to you f5 regulars and all your awesome knowledge/info
  18. NoExit

    NoExit NoProblem

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    I respect your opinion as someone who ran such a competent Dakar.

    Eager to better understand what a yellow plate gets a rider, beyond reseeding opportunities, and the recognition/prestige. Can you, or anyone else, fill me in?
  19. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer Supporter

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    upload_2016-1-2_19-40-35.png

    http://www.cyclenews.com/2016/01/article/dakar-rally-gets-underway-with-prologue/

    Many riders, such as KTM’s Toby Price, opted to ride conservatively with the goal of securing a modest starting position. “I was aiming for a 10th to 15th position,” said Price. Fellow factory KTM rider Matthias Walkner agreed with the strategy, explaining he didn’t want to push too hard because he didn’t want to start in front. In that regard, it was a successful day for both riders, as Price finished 16th right behind Walkner in 15th for the day.

    For riders such as Rodrigues, however, out front is exactly where they want to be. “It was a good day for me as I achieved my goal,” said Rodrigues, of the Yamalube Yamaha Official Rally Team. “The Dakar Rally is long and I wanted to be at the front from the beginning.”

    “The briefing said it was about 30cm deep, but I think it was more than a meter,” said Meo. “So the bike took on water and I had to take off the filter and remove the water to get it restarted.”

    “I felt comfortable with the bike, then it stopped in the rider,” Sanz explained. “I got started quite quickly but to lose 2-3 minutes in the prologue is not a good start. Now I need to be calm and have no problems. I need to be smart and improve every day.”

    On the “Team USA” front, American rider Ricky Brabec had a good first day, finishing a modest 22nd place in the prologue, earning himself an ideal starting position. Ian Blythe finished in 41st place and Scott Bright came in 76th place.

    American rider Alexander Smith – son of off-road legend Malcolm Smith – had some difficulties today, reporting that he lost his front brake 1km into the prologue. “I rode the remainder of the test with no front brake,” said Smith by way of an inReach Message. “Tomorrow is a new day and I’m planning on making the most of it.”

    [​IMG]
  20. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer Supporter

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    So Ruben is up front with Bam Bam. A good time no matter how you call it for an old man @41. So what do the visionaries think. Is he there to show the world what he's got and go for the win after so many years as Coma's waterboy or is he just getting position to support Pablo? The old dude's got talent and he can navigate.
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