2016 OFFICIAL DAKAR f5irehose - THANK YOU ALL F5 posters and lurkers!

Discussion in 'Racing' started by troy safari carpente, Dec 27, 2015.

  1. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    :deal:pynd Main switch on, engaging f5 drive... :thumb

    (From the doyle archives: :deal)

    As we embark upon yet another holiday season of disgusted spouses, neglected children, angry pets, angrier bosses, and IT internet usage reports that throw management into a frenzy. Friends of the f5 community, the time is once again, upon us... the 2016 OFFICIAL DAKAR COVERAGE f5irehose.

    As has been the case over the last few year's, we've settled into an early rhythm with the appropriate threads for the appropriate topics already in full swing... with the Pre-DAKAR thread and various f5 resource and index threads now posted and stickied, and under construction (thanks myway) http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/2016-dakar-adv-f5-resources-list-links-timing-schedules-etc-info-only-please.1113648/

    Mischa's timing and scoring site has evolved into the standard, by which all others are judged, and it can be found here: TrackingDakar link: :deal
    http://trackingdakar.nl/live.php


    The pre-DAKAR thread is now established as the ritual and will remain active until the first bikes are away on the first selective (January 3rd) when this thread will be opened for business.... then opens the full bore, no holds barred, F5irehose of information. Until then all of the scrutineering, ceremonial START podium ceremony and PROLOGUE discussion can take place on the pre-DAKAR f5ree for all. :rayof

    For the n00bs (or for those who it's been 12 months since last time) here is a ref5resher on following along; specifically on where to find and how to decipher some of the information on Dakar.com http://www.dakar.com/index_DAKus.html

    Although the number of posts/views on the ADV Dakar f5irehose may have fallen over the last few years... what is not told by figures alone, is the increase in quality of the content and information has risen. This is really a tribute to all the participants that keep the information flowing. The numbers are no longer important. That the ADVRider.com RACING forum coverage has established itself as the single most comprehensive repository for Dakar information is due to all of you. Well done.

    But enough of the rhetoric, let's get down to business. :deal

    Daily Information:
    and for the car fans amongst us (the other race in DAKAR :deal ) the RaceDezert.com forum is a wealth of information about the auto category... although with a good helping of orange SPEED flavour to it, with all the RG fans - there is still a lot of great information on the 4WD vs 2WD batlle on there: http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/forums/Dakar/
    Dakar mobile apps:
    Android
    iPhone

    Check the rider list below for links to their personal or team pages, many of which are updated with individual news.

    Another great source is Twitter and Facebook although Facebook may be tough if you haven't 'friended' many of the riders. A lot of the most timely information on a rider by rider basis hit's FB and Twitter pretty quickly.

    Where to watch:

    Here is the link to the 2016 ADVRider f5 resource TV coverage page:
    http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/2016-dakar-adv-f5-resources-list-links-timing-schedules-etc-info-only-please.1113648/#post-28309807
    • NBCSports.
    • Eurosport.com generally runs two updates daily, an interview update and then a stage/daily coverage show. Check either the media or torrent threads as those are the best sources for this information.
    • In recent years TV France has taken the level of live direct send DAKAR coverage to new highs. Comprised of live color commentary, rider interviews from the arrival control, incar and helicopter footage from the stage conclusion - live by satellite from the bivoua... it is THE best DAKAR broadcast going. If you do not "parlais vous francais" too well... get your phrase books out! Because the show is well worth it!
    Make sure to keep an eye on the latest from the "where to watch" thread for all the latest broadcast information on program times, links, streams etc. inmate myway is one of the guru's in there::deal http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/2016-the-dakar-where-to-watch-broadcast-information-only.1107878/


    Who to watch:

    Dakar.com rider watch and competitor link (all categories) here:
    http://www.dakar.com/dakar/2016/us/rider/rider-list-bikes.html

    A special mention to all who follow and support the riders. Those who go without sleep, clean clothes, or showers and endure the bumpy roads and non-roads helping to keep the riders riding for our enjoyment. Thanks to you!

    Last but not least... a big THANK YOU to Baldy and the all new ADVRider.com forum... without whom, this whole F5 phenomenon may never have existed.
    (please tip your waiters f5olks).

    The Route:
    http://www.dakar.com/dakar/2016/us/route.html

    [​IMG]
    #1
  2. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Here at ADVRider.com the collective DAKAR cyber consciousness that is the 2016 OFFICIAL DAKAR COVERAGE f5irehose is thank's in no small measure to the enthusiasm, participation and CONTRIBUTIONS of you... the inmates.

    Because of YOU the f5 DAKAR has taken on a life f5orce of it's own, and spread the "f5eeling" (almost virally :rofl) around the globe... and while nothing can ever compare to "being there" what the ADVRider Racing forums Dakar coverage DOES achieve, is give you... the diehard internet cross country rally f5ans of the world the absolute best in real time information, coverage and banter on this the WORLDS single most all consuming annual motorsports happening! :clap

    There'll be live timing links, mischa's excellent spreadsheets and statistics, there'll be photo's, videos, tweeties, facies and even selfies... :lol3 from people on site, colour commentary, insights, links, conjecture, theory, educated guesses and even rampant speculation all jumbled up in one relentless f5irehose torrent of information... :norton

    For 2016 there will be a decidedly MALLE MOTO feel to the f5irehose... a number of our veteran cyber DAKAR aliens have hung up their mouse pads recently, some of our privateer pro's will step up to the bar... even more exciting is the prospect of an "unknown" f5'er to break onto the scene. In any case, it will be as exciting as ever... main thing is; if you see, hear or wonder about something that you think is interesting or relevant... put your fingers to the board and post it up... "Throttle to the donkey" f5irehose style! :happay

    You WILL be tired, you WILL get lost, you WILL get passed by the virtual sweeper truck and you WILL be there in the end for the thrill of victory... :D all from the comfort of your keyboard at home. Virtual DAKAR - f5 style... THAT's how we roll here at ADVRider... :clap:clap:clap
    #2
  3. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    :clapDakar following 101...Timing and Scoring...
    ...or how to drink from the fire hose and enjoy the taste.
    :lol3


    [​IMG] Current local time in Buenos Aires, Argentina

    http://24timezones.com/world_directory/current_buenos_aires_time.php

    The important things to know up front are the basics or Dakar rule applications. There are two rulebook translations, in French and English. There can be different interpretations, depending on the article or situation. According to the ASO regulations, the French version is the definitive interpretation.


    The stage:
    Liaison:

    Each stage can be broken up into several pieces, 'Liaison', 'connection', 'road section', 'transit section' are all the same thing. They all refer to a section of the total stage that is not timed, but is basically how the riders get from the bivouac to the start of the timed section. Liaison distances can be anywhere from zero to several hundred kilometers and can be before, after, or at both ends of the timed stage.

    Depending loosely on finish placings the day before, riders are assessed a start time. Riders starting 1 through 10 are sent off in two minute intervals, starters 11 through 20 in one minute intervals, 20 on back in 30" intervals. Every now and then they'll stage mass starts of 10 or 20 riders at a time, but is may only happen a stage or two each year if at all.

    Timed section:
    This is where you get your boogie on. If you are in the top 30, you are dropping the hammer for a good placement. If you are farther back, you are most likely looking to survive to ride the next stage. It's important to know the motivations for participating.
    For the top 10 (this year in 2016) many are there for a win, with no #1 plateholder (Coma and Despres for the last decade) the title is clearly up for grabs. For the rest of the top 30, they are hoping for a good placement in order to attract sponsor deals or get noticed by a factory team. This year the TOP 50 contain riders of unparalleled quality... may who easily have talent to be top ten contenders by the rally's end.

    The rest of the field consists of riders for which the finish is the win they desire. Whether it be a dream fulfilled, an adventure undertaken, or simply someone with more dollars than sense, these riders will never battle with the likes of Viladom's, Barreda, Price or Goncalves... but they will battle even more fierce opponents like sand, dunes, time, darkness, and their own will and stamina to carry on.

    There are a few anomolies to these unwritten rules. Riders who come back year after year, hover in the 50's to 60's as far as time and placement and gradually move up towards the end more out of attrition than outright speed. They have flashes of brilliance now and then, but they know they will not win a stage or even end up on the podium. For them and riders like them, the motivation is intensely personal and seldom discussed.

    Every now and then a timed stage will include a neutralisation. A neutralization is usually an untimed section in the middle of a timed stage where riders need to get from one area to another. Usually this is when there is no feasible racing route through a particularly long distance. If it's a short go like through a village in Africa, the ASO will impose and closely monitor a speed limit. If it's long, they'll simply throw in a neutralisation section.

    What we end up with is two timed sections and the total time of the stage becomes an aggregate of the two sections. Think of it like two stages in a single day with the times added together.

    The end of a timed section may be right at the bivouac or there may be another liaison from the end of the timed stage to the bivouac.

    Timed sections are broken into many segments denoted by waypoints. As a rider approaches a waypoint, once they get within a defined perimeter, the GPS comes to life, and an arrow points the way to the waypoint. When the rider gets to within a closer set distance from the waypoint, it registers, his time is recorded and he or she takes off in search of the next waypoint (WP). Interspersed through the stage are also Checkpoints. These are spots where (as far as I know) time is manually recorded by an ASO official and the riders card is marked. CP's may or may not match up with a WP, but they usually do.

    Not to get too deep into the rules about delays, late starters, etc... as all that exists in the rules pdf here, but suffice to say, the ASO has penalties for everything and as I said above, the assessment of those penalties may or may not make sense and may or may not show on the timing lists.

    Typically stage maps from the Dakar.com main page showing CP's.
    These are often representative only... and NOT acurate as to the actual route as such...


    [​IMG]

    A typical stage map from Dakar.com showing WP's.


    From the same page, this is the stage profile of the WP's. This is often better than the stage map as it shows the km's. One note of caution, the ASO is seemingly intentionally vague on their km markings and whether they actually line up with WP's or just denote the end of a particular type of surface, ie. the transition from gravel to dunes, etc...


    The iPhone App map is actually the best and more like the old Dakar.com it clearlt shows the CP's and a nice dashed line to the km marking. Notice for instance, CP4. Had the line not been there, it would look like CP4 lines up with km609 when in fact it is listed at km593 a full 14km's earlier. When expecting a rider to come in, 14km's in the dunes can be quite a lot of time.



    Hope fully that explains the basic mechanics of the stage and the movement of riders from bivouac to bivouac each day.

    Timing:
    First of all, if you want to track times like the best of them, yuou have to know your lists inside and out. Don't underestimate the difficulty of trying to figure out time splits while the pressure builds about posting it first as to not repeat, or 205, already posted information. PackMule has this down pat and is faster than anyone. Sure the time sheets give the split times form the stage leader, but what if you want to see how much time 5th place Ze Helio gained on 3rd place Chaleco from waypoint 4 to waypoint 5? This is where list knowledge comes in.

    Waypoint times show up in the live tracking "follow your favorites" section of the dakar.com site and checkpoint times show up in the live tracking for the day here.

    As you learn to use both of these, you'll understand how they can compliment each other.

    For 2011, the ASO has drastically revamped their site and really took the wind out of the timing sails. One crucial element now gone is the physical time of day that a rider posted a WP or a CP. This was immensely helpful in tracking riders that have been lost, broke down, crashed, or simply slowed down. Now we only get the physical time of day for the start of each rider.

    The four most important things to remember are this:
    1)
    ASO timing is notoriously spotty. Not the times themselves per se, but when and if they show up. Because a rider has not posted a WP time does not mean the worst. The iritrack may not be working, the ASO official may have gone for coffee, the rider may have missed the waypoint.

    2) Always keep in mind the start intervals of the riders. For example: Joan Barreda may be leading Toby Price by 10 seconds from WP to WP, but when Joan posts his time at a WP and Toby's time doesn't show up 10 seconds later, many people panic that the second ride fell or slowed up, or whatever. Keep in mind that the second rider may have started physically on the stage 10 minutes after the first. Understand that the second riders time may not show up until the 10 minutes and 10 seconds have passed. Once your head around the "staggered start" concept, you'll be able when to expect a rider through a WP or a CP.

    The live WP to WP timing is usually referred to as the iritrack. The CP to CP timing is usually referred to as the Posis list after the French name for it. When you really get skilled, you can start venturing into the French version of dakar.com because for the most part, the times are updated a little faster there.

    3) As the day turns to night... and the night drags on... the updates on the ASO scoring becomes less frequent and spread out. The front guys have their times refreshed up to the lists pretty quickly, but if you are following a guy who is languishing in 134th place and is still out on the stage 6 hours after the first guys are in, good luck on keeping track. This is what we of the f5 call the "graveyard shift." it is the heart and soul of the f5 DAKAR experience... especially for the ADV forum inmates and competitors that we follow. Each year the f5 collective adopt riders that they more or less "will" to the ASS incontrol at the bivouac each night. This phenomenon is known as the "slow clap" :clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

    It can take on many forms... both geometric and symbolic... it's power is unquestionable... and there are several inmates of the f5 clan have mastered this mysterious artform to the point where it has become a kind of religion with the 00:00 to 05:00 am (local Argentine time) cyber rally disciples. :thumb

    What all this this means is that the ASO scoring crew sometimes turn in, before the riders make the finish of the special stage. The times will ultimately get recorded within the ASO, but they may never show on the list. If they are on the next days start list, they made it in. It is the f5 graveyard shift that are the spiritual caretakers of the backmarkers... so many souls they have salvaged over the years.

    4) Withdrawals and the withdrawal list. Previous f5 DAKAR experience dictates that inclusion on the withdrawal list is terminal. If your rider ends up there but it's still a mystery where they are, they are out. We cannot recall a rider make the withdrawal list, but then still somehow continue on. Not sure why the ASO is so spot on with withdrawals and spotty on everything else, but that's how it is... TERMINAL

    DSS, WP, CP, ASS, etc...
    DSS - Starting point of the timed stage (French abbreviation of Departe Special Stage)
    WP - Waypoint (electronically recorded time stamp)
    CP - Checkpoint (manually recorded time stamp)
    ASS - Not the nice Chilean girl screaming "Chaleco, Chaleco, Chaleco", but the finish of the timed stage. (French abbreviation for Arrive Special Stage)

    As mentioned, the various lists will give you just about all you need to track the riders. Don't be afraid to open up some tabs or some separate browser windows and have your various time lists up on each ready to toggle and refresh at a moments notice. The ASO's fancy new auto refresh will have you spitting nails by the fifth time you are copying a time from 14th place at WP5 and it refreshes back to the start times of the cars before you can select copy but it is what it is.

    What is "F5" - many are unsure of this and what it means. For us geeks that have been hovering over time sheets for the past few years, F5 became a joke about how often we are refreshing the browsers. For most PC based computers, the F5 key refreshes the browser just like the refresh icon does, but since many are typing it saves time to hit F5 over grabbing the mouse and clicking refresh. Nothing more complicated than that. :1drink
    #3
  4. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Tomorrow, DAKAR 2016 begins. For those who are there, DAKAR is more than a 2 week event. It is a way of life- of going farther, faster, of never saying die, of pushing through. We live in a world that is too often reasonable, too often denatured and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. Dakar is none of those things. It makes no apologies for drowning the dreams of half her suitors. But that's why we love it, because the feedback is honest.

    For those who will start in the morning, the moment they go off the line is the culmination of a year (or more) of work. For months, there have been so many details to sweat, so much work to be done both on the race, and on paying for the race. All that ends tomorrow morning- whatever flaws you've come with, they are yours to the end. It's all over but the doing, and that's where the joy lives.

    It's not just the individual experience, either. Being a part of Dakar means that for two weeks, you are surrounded by people who are just as committed as you. People who have rejected what is reasonable descend from all corners of the globe, and the atmosphere that results is charged with magic...

    All of us at home get a little bit of that magic too. We get the chance to transcend ourselves for a short time, and that's what makes all the sacrifices of the race worthwhile. The world is watching, and we feed off the strength of those in the ring. We hope for the best for everyone, we wish everyone could finish, we respect their commitment, and we sit back and enjoy the show.
    #4
  5. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    DAKAR 2016... schedule

    [​IMG]
    Click it, to get it bigger
    #5
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  6. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    "LEG 0" PROLOGUE: Saturday 2nd January - 11 kms

    [​IMG]

    Stage One: Rosario - Villa Carlos Paz. (MOTO) Sunday 3rd January
    *********************************************
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    SS1: 227 km

    Total dist (incl. liason) 632 kms
    #6
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  7. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    As Myway and Mischa (gold f5 stars to both :D:D) both correctly point out, todays "LEG 0" liason stage from Beunos Aires to Rosario bivouac (including the 11 km Prologue selective stage) is a bit of an anomoly (for those that cant remember back to the euro starts in the Africa DAKARS of yore).

    Sundays stage is referred to in the official itinerary as Stage 1.
    #7
  8. garfey

    garfey Scruffy Adventurer Supporter

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    Trying to backtrack to catch up prior to F5ITH and get the PCs set up on the "right" displays.

    Do I have this right:
    JBB away first @ 0800, ARG time,
    3-min intervals for the 1st 10,
    2-min intervals for the 2nd 10,
    1-min intervals for the 3rd 10, then
    30-sec intervals for those following?
    #8
    troy safari carpente likes this.
  9. Sparrowhawk

    Sparrowhawk Long timer

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    So Ruben is up front with Bam Bam. A good time no matter how you call it for an old man @41. So what do the visionaries think. Is he there to show the world what he's got and go for the win after so many years as Coma's waterboy or is he just getting position to support Pablo? The old dude's got talent and he can navigate.
    #9
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  10. too old

    too old Keen supporter

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    It changed this year - 3 mins for the top 10 - then 2 mins for the next 10 etc. - as Garf just posted :thumb

    Although the regs still have it as 2 mins 1 min and 30 sec?
    #10
  11. too old

    too old Keen supporter

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    #11
  12. cyborg

    cyborg Potius Sero Quam Numquam

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    When is Stage 1 start time? I'm having a hard time locating that simple bit of data in the flood of info and threads and even Dakar.com.
    #12
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  13. beechum1

    beechum1 Dandole Gas al Burro

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    0400 they leave the bivi. 0800 first bike on stage. Gmt-3.
    #13
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  14. cyborg

    cyborg Potius Sero Quam Numquam

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    Thanks, I know I just lost a f5ew positions in asking :D not that I'll be a contender this year anyway. I finally found it in Myways links to the Dakar.com timing section, I forgot to actually click on them, doh! Thanks Uller and beechum1!
    #14
  15. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    Here we have a beautiful piece of Stage 1 roadbook:
    LiaRoadbook.jpg

    And here we have the course that matches that section of roadbook (racing right to left). Compare the markers on the map to the matching km in the roadbook.
    Las Penas Sur.png

    And the Google Earth file that goes with this section of the course:
    http://www.HogWildRacing.com/dakar2016/Stage1Dakar2016SectionA-ByHogWild.kml

    I'll release the whole stage Google Earth file somewhat later.
    #15
  16. Myway

    Myway Long timer

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    [​IMG]
    #16
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  17. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    :thumb:thumb:thumb Okay...

    so during the LEG "0" we've already had Stage/Podium gate, Sainz water-hood gate, MINI-trip and fall gate (most unfortunate and condolences to those injured and those that lost their lives) and we've had our first... what time does the stage start "gate".

    All in a ll pretty much par for the course...

    So now, (while the kids are still asleep) and the first of the MOTO competitors have rolled out of the bivouac in Rosario towards sundays Special Stage 1.... Daddy f5 DAKAR has switched on the 2016 DAKAR - OFFICIAL COVERAGE thread and I hereby declare the f5irehose open... :clap:clap:clap
    #17
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  18. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    From DAKAR.com

    Stage 1: Rosario to Villa Carlos Paz

    Argentina is a country of mountains, in all forms. Although the first stage is not yet at altitude, the summits are well and truly visible. The wheels of the vehicles follow sinewy and undulating tracks, with the exception of the first, faster, part of the special section. A partial separation of the categories will ensure dangerous overtaking is avoided.

    Stage One: Rosario - Villa Carlos Paz. (MOTO) Sunday 3rd January*********************************************
    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    SS1: 227 km

    Total dist (incl. liason) 632 kms
    #18
  19. garfey

    garfey Scruffy Adventurer Supporter

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    So who can sleep!
    Up 3hrs early, eyes won't go shut, coffee pot on the burble,
    G'Morning, All!
    :wave
    #19
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  20. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    :nod
    The old guard will have a few days now to establish their tactics, while many of the "young gungs" find their feet...

    ... but there seem to be some quick learners in the new school class... so better make hay while the sun shines Jordi, Rubens, David and co. :nod:evil
    #20