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Discussion in 'Racing' started by RhinoVonHawkrider, Nov 4, 2015.
Money is on Price to podium & Gordon not to.
Interesting curiosity quasi-fact about Dakar and dominating factory teams... their reign at the top and subsequent "dethronings".
I rarely happens... "dethroning" I mean...
Usually, when a factory team finds, refines and the "defines" the recipe for success... at least in DAKAR, history shows that they have gone on to duplicate that success, often a number times in succession... But in stark contrast to being "dethroned", often it is actually the teams own decision (marketing or sponsorship wise) to withdraw, that see's their reign at the top come to an end... not being "dethroned" as such, by another competing team that comes along and knocks them off the top step.
(with reservations for some slight historical innacuracies - this is off the top of my head) Here is what I mean;
Mid 80's (1984/85) Marlboro BMW take two wins in a row... dominant... Marlboro then pull out, Rahier puts together a much less potent effort (with Suzuki) and Honda/Rothmans come in to take over.
Honda/Rothmans step in... four years in a row victory... Lalay dies... HRC pulls out... Honda's reign ends... takes them 25 years until they decide to return.
Same period... mid 80's Rothmans/Porsche come to play in AUTO's with Rene Metge... two years domination, then Rothmans pull out - Porsche never heard of again in DAKAR.
Then comes the Peugeot/Citröen dominance in auto class... 1987 to 1996 almost undefeated* (including World Cup rallies) untill the ZX rallye Raid was banned by the regulations and 1997 Citröen headed off the the WRC.... where they continued to dominate - first with Sainz, McCrae (Xsara)... and later Loeb, sordo & orgier (C4 then DS3) (hang on... those Sainz and loeb blokes are back again now... with the new bigger, meaner PUG aren't they? )
*1992 / 1993 Mitsubishi SONAUTO/Ralliart broke the Citröen stanglehold on DAKAR with the T3 Pajero... this is possibly the only "dethroning" in the AUTO's I can recall off the top of my head... and the battles between Ralliart and Peugeot/Citröen between 1988 to 1996 were something to behold.
YAMAHA and SONAUTO/Gauloise Blondes dominated Dakar in the Moto's from 1991 to 1998... *with Cagiva and Orioli on the factory Lucky Explorers breaking the suite in 1994. But when Sonauto/Gauloise Blondes pulled out of YAMAHA and Peterhansel retired... so ended their reign as well - no one "took" it from them.
BMW came (back) in 1999. The came, saw... and conquered - two years straight - 1999/2000 - with Richard Sainct. Then BMW pulled out of rally - almost as fast as they came - to sell F650's and GS1200's to this date, all on the laurels of those victories.
That commenced the 14 year KTM dynasty...
In the meantime, in the Auto's...
Mitsubishi ATS (under Sven Quandt and Dominique Serieys as manager) dominate Dakar 2001 to 2007 (Peterhansel again a big part of this equation). When the rally the moved to Sth America after the 2008 terrorist cancellation in Africa... they made a (rather last minute) effort with the GDi Diesel SP/Proto Lancers in 2009... but failed badly and Mitsubishi Japan pulled out of both WRC and Rally Raid (till this day) on the pre-text of the Global Financial Crisis.
THAT's when VW took over the AUTO category with Red Bull... bang, bang, bang... steamrolled three wins in a row with three different drivers (was two 1,2,3's podiums?)... and then they pulled out...
In steps MINI to the vacated palace... 4 victories straight... in a surprisingly similar invasion-force like dominance to that VW exhibited... MINI x-raid did not "take" the crown, they seized a vacant fort... even though they gave Toyota and Robby G some black eyes along the way.
So back to the MOTO's... and KTM's unbelievable 14 year streak...
Now that the two Kings (Coma and Despres) have vacated the moto throne room finally... KTM have stocked their castle with several knights of the round orange table (some blue ones too this year ) in order to to defend their title.
Will HRC be able to "dethrone" the Austrians this year... or will they "snatch defeat from the hands of victory" once more...?
Honda have a good chance this year, to do what (in my estimation) only Mitsubishi and Cagiva have ever achieved in the past... and that is give the reigning title holder a bloody nose, in a square match.
Bam Bam and Gonk... better put your gloves on...!
50% of me wishes for a HRC win in order to keep their appetite and continuance, which the event needs, especially in these times of difficult sponsorship - of course this % will disappear is Sam's recovery progresses as it has to date!
Troy, whats your thoughts in regards to Peugeot / Redbull "dethroning" mini. The money is there, they have the drivers...I have no insight of their managment/strategies. Does it simply come down to the car and its performance/reliability? Remove Nasser from the picture and Stephane seems like the odds on favorite driver to win.
A red bike and a French car winning the race? Maybe.
RG has been oddly quiet this year. I really enjoyed his two part prep videos last year. No question he is the car I'd like to win
Since march of 2015, Peugeot has done everything right - as far as what would be required to come out and "win Dakar first time back" - like they boldly stated (for January 2015) when first they released the PUG (vers 1.0) mid 2014 amidst all the Red Bull bubble and fanfaire.
Now armed with PUG vers 2.1 and the fantastic four of Perfecthansel, Sebbe, Bullfighter and Mudboy, Peugeot have the team to take a fight to MINI X-raid... Had they ditched the "turd" vehicle that the LeMan's CAD jockey's gave them to work with in October/November of last year (after the Maroc Rallye debacle), stayed home in January 2015 to get a headstart on PUG Vers 2.0... which evolved into vers 2.1 - the one we saw Carlos debut in Marocco last month...
Well under those circumstances, I'd have PEUGEOT as my favourite for 2016.
So I think that the battle the first week of January, up until the rest day, is going to be.... wait for it...
Jurgen mentioned in a interview, that ASO said, this year there are 14 Malle Moto riders.
Strange that there will be as much (well nearly) interest in 4 wheels, or is it 2 (drive wise), but whichever there are 2 stars on board - the Mini, Pug ( oh and Toyota) battle is going to be great to follow also
I am thinking Ruben has a good chance this year of a high spot. I am going for Gonk/quintanila/Faria with laia in the top ten again
I am rooting for Sams recovery too but in terms of the race, personal opinion I know but I can't see how he can compete
@ too old - KTM usually use their press conference at the Milan show to launch their Dakar team - will Sam be there on Tuesday ?
No he won't be travelling to the show - the recovery is going well, but the decision on the Dakar unknown at the moment and probably won't be final one way or the other until the week before Christmas.
I was hoping to be able to catch up with him and say hi - fingers crossed and hope the recovery is complete and swift !
"Prologo" of the Dakar 2016 will take place in Buenos Aires City reefs on January 2. It's a stretch of speed of about 10 km, which does not add time as part of the race (similar to a Shakedown of Rally), but it is preparatory for stage 1 of Sunday, January 3.
In this way the first day of full activity of the 2016 Dakar travel arms. After verifications techniques on the grounds of Technopolis (31 December and 1 January), Saturday 2nd largarán participants from the ramp located opposite the entrance to the grounds of Villa Martelli.
The caravan will move bound to reefs to dispute the "prologue" with motorcycles, Quads, cars and trucks. After that activity, compulsory in the route, vehicles continue heading to Rosario, where will be to focus on the so-called 'zero camp".
Do we know if it dictates starting positions for day 1?
The regs don't read like it does, so maybe just a ceremonial prologue?
15P2 STARTING ORDER
Generally, the starting orders will be given in the following manner: the Bikes - Quads will start in the order of the previous day’s Selective Section:
the first 10 Bikes every 2 minutes, the following 10 every minute,
the remainder, 1 by 1 or 2 by 2 every 30 seconds.
The starting orders, and particularly the ones from the first and the last Stages, will be determined by the Timing handed out during Administrative Checks, which is the official document stating the start orders for each Stage.
Each change will be subject to an Information Note that will be posted in the Official Board.
The start order will be established on the basis of the time achieved in the Selective Section, plus any Sporting Penalties obtained in this Selective Section (speed, missing Waypoint).
In the case of a dead heat, Riders will start in the race number order.
Other penalties: Road (Time Card destruction or loss, etc. as well as all the penalties regarding
Article 25P – Rider’s Code) will apply to the General Classification.
If it didn't then it wouldn't be much of a spectacle.
That's what they did in Abu Dhabi at the beginning of the year and it was a bit of a farce.
Dakar 2016 Recon. Still looks odd to see Coma in a truck creating the route. Certainly implies the Salt Flats are back, for better or worse. Hopefully some lessons were learned last year and bikes get as prepped as possible.
Is it January yet?
If someone wants a tiny taste of the Dakar right now, Carlton Kirby is commentating on velodrome racing on Eurosport1.
I have no clue what he's talking about, but it sounds familiar.
Kellon is in the passenger seat for the Baja1k with RG. Does he normally do this or is it Dakar prep?
Young British fellow on the Mini team. Another fellow to follow in January.