2019 AMA Monster Energy Supercross

Discussion in 'Racing' started by nachtflug, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. RedRocket

    RedRocket Yeah! I want Cheesy Poofs Supporter

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    I do t think he much chance to build any momentum between the injuries.
    They take longer for some to get past than others.
    Also maybe Webb just didn't feel right on That 450.

    Pairing with Marvin will be interesting, they've had their run Ins IIRC.
    #81
  2. nachtflug

    nachtflug deplorable

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    great post seriously well stated. but you can't have it both ways. if there is nobody more qualified why should they move up in the pecking order ahead of Cooper Webb. this sport has seen guys make careers out of not even being podium contenders. Cooper is still a podium contender until we see definitive evidence that he is not and we have not yet seen that. why give a guy with no "track record" a shot ahead of him and if we should, who is this mystery man with more upside that Cooper Webb?
    #82
  3. robert110411

    robert110411 Long timer

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    Some people have said some unflattering things about Yamaha's handling. Maybe amplified by 450 vs 250 Webb just can't get it together.

    Maybe on the Orange bike he'll get back on track.

    Maybe at 5'7" 145 he's never going to get it together on a 450.

    Lots of riders had bad season followed by huge comebacks. Lots of riders never made it out of the 125 (or 250 in modern days) class ever.

    But in a few weeks we'll find out. I'm not totally convinced that just an Orange bike will fix the problem, but we'll see.
    #83
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  4. ridenm

    ridenm Missing my emotional support squirrel Supporter

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    In two years on a 450 I count only three podiums for Webb, none better than 3rd, and 10 top-5 finishes. If he can't produce better results on a factory KTM, he probably will be one of those guys who just helps make up the field on the track. I like Josh Grant, but I see a lot of similarities.
    #84
  5. rick danger

    rick danger The further adventures of

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    He got some tips from Bam Bam..:lol3
    #85
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  6. south

    south Been here awhile

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    Not to split hairs, but I don't think it's a matter of having it both ways so much as it's merely a case of looking at the same situation from two different perspectives. You are (entirely legitimately) framing the situation from a fully pragmatic, "team manager" -type perspective--i.e., "OK, who all can we actually put on the bike"--and I think the counterpoint is coming more from a fan's view--i.e., "Webb isn't anywhere near up in the mix; surely there's gotta be somebody else to put on the bike who could potentially run with Tomac, Roczen, Anderson, and Musquin and make the racing/show that much better".

    Not being a team manager or MX/SX insider, I certainly can't give you an answer as to what riders are actually available to be had--i.e., not already contractually locked down by other teams/manufacturers--nor do I have any idea who--if anyone--KTM actually auditioned on the bike before making their decision to sign Webb. For all I know, Cooper was KTM's best real-world option, which is pretty much why, as I stated previously, I don't have a problem with Webb getting a(nother) shot on a (factory) 450.

    (All that said, and along those lines, I always figured KTM would poach Osborne from Husqvarna--i.e., "KTM JV"--and put him on the varsity team. I've felt Anderson is a worthy #1 for Husky, whereas I've never considered Marvin to be the "final answer" for KTM.)

    Anyway, I certainly don't see any of KTM's 250 guys--which really comes down to McElrath and Smith--as serious candidates (today) for the 450 (although I do wonder a bit about Smith), so, sure, barring some additional info along the lines of one of those 250 guys setting a new 450 track record at KTM's practice facility, in my book, Webb definitely gets the seat over either of them.

    Now, as a fan, and disregarding all contractual obligations, I've got two names--well, one and a half, really--that intrigue me more than Webb as far as a potential stand-out (if not fully "great") 450 rider. The first (fully legit) is Cianciarulo: serious promise/potential shown in his early 250 outings which was undone/derailed by his slight, arguably/seemingly somewhat frail, body, and now that he's all grown up and healthy/robust, he's just got *too much body* for a 250. No absolutes, not saying he's a dead lock for 450 greatness, but I'd be keenly interested to see how he'd go.

    The other guy on my radar has, of course, a full name, but I list him only as a "half" because he's still at least a (race) season--if not a (full calendar) year--away from being ready to jump on a 450--or at least before I'd seen enough to say, "yeah, put him on a 450"--your local(ish) boy, Flug: Justin Cooper. The biggest question I have with Cooper is just what kind of (untapped/unseen) ceiling he's got. The kid is seriously impressive, albeit in a relatively small sample size, but then the facts that he really isn't actually a "kid"--i.e., a teenager--and that he's developed, and continues to operate, rather outside of the standard orbit of pro MX/SX racing, have me wondering if we're seeing him arrive fully-formed, pretty much at his peak, or if he's still got plenty of potential left. I do know the last (new) guy to catch my attention as he's done was RV, and, needless to say, he did pretty well. Then again, RV was winning--even dominating--on the pro level when he was still in his teens, IIRC.
    #86
  7. nachtflug

    nachtflug deplorable

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    REALLY awesome stuff dude. great points on both Adam C and Justin C. With regards to Cooper. I've recently been to a few fall local races here and the track I've gone too has a small track for the smaller riders to go along with the big track. I've spent more time watching the smaller kids on the Cobra's and the intensity there is every bit as palpable as on the big track (all things considered). Some of these kids on the Cobra's make you :eekers they aren't there to play around its mind boggling given the ages of way under 10. And we're seeing the same from Justin Cooper nobody seems to have informed him that you don't just compete up front right away but obviously he is and obviously he isn't there to play around so he is an excellent suggestion. He did win on the 450's at Loretta's in 2017 and I'm sure all of these guys have spent time on 450's so they all have the potential to jump onto one and turn laps it's just a matter of those lap times. I was open to hearing names and you named two really good ones that I hadn't considered.

    [​IMG]
    #87
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  8. nachtflug

    nachtflug deplorable

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    Ryan Villopotto's dad passed this week from a heart attack..
    #88
  9. TwilightZone

    TwilightZone Long timer Supporter

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    (Sighs) I knew him when he was just a kid... he was maybe 4-5 years old.
    I was probably in my early 20's.

    Wonder if Fred, the 'old man' is still alive and kicking.
    He had a bike shop in Eureka Ca. Sold CZ's and Hodaka's.
    Those were good times.
    #89
  10. rick danger

    rick danger The further adventures of

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    The win always seems to just elude AC92. But I think its just a matter of time. He's a talented kid and seems to be getting progressively better.
    #90
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  11. Racer111v

    Racer111v Long timer

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    And he is a great personality...His blogs are great
    #91
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  12. south

    south Been here awhile

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    Thanks, Flug--just trying to hold up my end/earn my keep around here; not saying I always succeed ;), but I try.

    As for Cianciarulo, his considerable growth spurt occurred while he was off the bike recovering from his (shoulder) injuries, and he's talked about how he's had to recalibrate/relearn everything he does on the bike because of his new size and weight. So, I think in light of him having to rework all of that, coupled with coming off his injuries, and that he's now one of the--if not *the*--heaviest riders in 250s, the fact that he's still been able to run up front and snag a win on occassion is pretty impressive and makes me wonder how he'd do on a 450, which has the power to neutralize his weight penalty and where his size/height can actually be an advantage. I imagine if he keeps going the way he is, we'll have a chance to see before too much longer. I have to wonder exactly how good Savatgy will have to be to convince Kawi to keep his seat beyond his 1 year deal/try-out/place-holder. And I won't rule out Forkner having a turnabout in form, but I think that's going to take some considerable work/improvement on his mental game.

    Now, Justin Cooper--I'm not sure I knew that he'd won on a 450, so thanks for that extra tidbit, Flug; all I remember hearing is that he's based out of NY state, and consequently hadn't even been riding year-round like the CA and FL -based riders do, and that he just showed up at Loretta's and won. And then, of course, Yamaha put him on the 250 for the outdoors, and he was immediately fast; holeshotting, running up front, and podium-ing (didn't he even win a moto? without checking, I'm pretty sure he did). Anyway, the new-to-me fact that he's obviously already got similiar ability/pace/experience on a 450 has me wanting to see him moved up that much more/sooner. But I suppose there may be an element of "that's just not how we do things; you have to do it this way" involved, and they'll keep him on the 250 for at least the SX season.
    #92
  13. enduro0125

    enduro0125 Sticks and Stones™..

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    TLDR
    #93
  14. south

    south Been here awhile

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    Good for you, your time management skills, and your post count total; beyond that, your input/commentary means precisely f' all to me, but if you're not going to read it, feel free to not comment on it as well. Just FYI, FWIW.
    #94
  15. enduro0125

    enduro0125 Sticks and Stones™..

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    Sorry

    Forgot the :D
    #95
  16. rick danger

    rick danger The further adventures of

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    Seems to be working for Benny Bloss. He's the same height as me. I remember back in the day riding huskys because the ergonomics were more suited to tall riders than YZ's and other jap bikes. (mid late 70's)
    #96
  17. rick danger

    rick danger The further adventures of

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    Now ,Now, We're all freinds here. :D
    #97
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  18. enduro0125

    enduro0125 Sticks and Stones™..

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    “I” before “e”,
    friend.

    :D
    #98
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  19. rick danger

    rick danger The further adventures of

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    except after c...:lol3....spell checks on the blink
    #99
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  20. enduro0125

    enduro0125 Sticks and Stones™..

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