2019 Forza 300

Discussion in 'Battle Scooters' started by cabanza, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. Lethe.au

    Lethe.au Adventurer

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    The XMAX 300 was available here in Australia for probably 9 months prior to the new Forza also. During that period I emailed Honda Australia and got basically the same response you did. And then it turned up. So all is perhaps not lost, but the lack of communication is frustrating, I agree.

    Honda Australia is still dragging their feet on accessories also. I asked the dealer to order in the OEM heated grips in advance of the first service, and the wiring harness for the grips turned up, but not the grips themselves. Not a big deal as it's summer now, but still.
  2. TedKarhu

    TedKarhu n00b

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    Has anyone any experience/thoughts on riding with a passenger? Looking at buying my 1st scooter after a lifetime on bikes. I have yet to sit on one let alone ride one, but up now based purely on reviews & pics I've decided on 1. Forza. 2. Xmax 300/400? 3. C400x/C400gt. (although I'll probably eliminate 3.) But what I'd really like to know is how does a 300cc scooter perform with rider/passenger/luggage weighing up to 200kg. Does it significantly affect speed/handling/fuel consumption? It will be used as above 95% of the time for longer trips on 80-100kph, mostly flat roads. Thanks for any help, I can't seem find any info on this.
  3. davenowherejones

    davenowherejones short guy

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    Where? 200 kg = 440 pounds = too heavy

    I have a 2014 Forza and two people of that weight would not fit with my top case on the back.
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  4. Blue&Yellow

    Blue&Yellow but orange inside...

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    All scooters are typically rear heavy because the engine (on most machines) is in the swing-arm engine package, whereas on a regular bike the engine is right between the wheels. Then on a regular bike you typically sit between the wheels (sportsbike a bit more forward, cruiser a bit more rearward) whereas on a lot of scooters you often sit quite far back. Long story short, the majority of scooters are already more rear heavy than most regular bikes. And they have smaller wheels as well which doesn't help.

    I haven't ridden the Forza yet but on my X-Max I don't like the feeling of riding 2-up that much, and definitely not on slippery roads with gravel etc. The X-Max is also only classed up to 161kg for passengers + luggage so 200kg would be asking a lot from it. Riding solo my X-Max is great, riding solo with luggage is great. But if you're going to be riding two up you'd better be two pretty light individuals. This isn't something which only effects the X-Max though, I'd say it's pretty typical for all mid-sized scooters.

    My general recommendation would be to look at larger and heavier scooters or a DCT motorcycle. Contenders could be (in no particular order):

    Yamaha T-Max
    Burgman 650
    Honda Integra 750
    Honda NC750 SD
    Honda NC750X DCT
    Honda X-Adv
    Honda Silverwing 600
    BMW C650 & C600
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  5. TedKarhu

    TedKarhu n00b

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    Thanks for replies. My passenger & myself weigh 165kg, & I'm guessing all the gear we wear - boots, helmets etc + luggage must add up to 200kg. So I found out the Forza is unavailable here, & the xmax is out cos of the weight limit. That just leaves the c400x & c400gt. Their weights are 204 & 212 kg each with a max payload of 405kg (incl. scooter) so we could just make it if cut down on the luggage. Do you think that's pushing it handling wise? I prefer the look of the GT but the extra weight means even less luggage + it's €1300 more than the x.
  6. Blue&Yellow

    Blue&Yellow but orange inside...

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    Personally I'd look at the second hand market. For instance, the Honda Integra is a strange beast and not many people give it much attention. So currently there are some deals to be had on that one and for you it could be perfect. Big nice stable wheels, relaxed engine with good torque etc. Often comes with panniers and topbox included etc.
    TedKarhu likes this.
  7. LoloPD

    LoloPD Been here awhile

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    I'm 90kg in my gear.....my wife's about 57kg in her gear. So that's 147kg total. My tent is 6kg, so that leaves about 8kg for other luggage if we want to go touring......not a lot if I stick to my XMAX!
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  8. LoloPD

    LoloPD Been here awhile

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    When I bought my V-Strom they did the same to me! I wanted the X-ADV or if it wasn't available then the Africa Twin. So I emailed them. They told me 'Honda Philippines has NO PLANS to introduce these models into Philippines' , so I ordered the V-Strom. Actually while I was waiting for the delivery, Honda Philippines had a HUGE press release of their NEW model line-ups containing......you guessed it.....the X-ADV and the Africa Twin!
  9. Lethe.au

    Lethe.au Adventurer

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    The new Forza is rated up to 180kg (just checked the sticker under the seat), but I think your requirements (combination of weight, speed, distance, and "95% of the time") are a bit steep for any of the 300s to meet, and I would be looking at the BMW C400 (350cc) at minimum. Another machine worth looking at would be the new (or even the old) Suzuki Burgman 400. Or even the Piaggio X10 or Bev 350 (330cc) if it's still available in your region.

    l've only ridden my Forza once with a pillion to date and did my best to solicit feedback in comparison to my old Yamaha Majesty 250. It's "higher", "feels more like a motorcycle", "better suspension" (bearing in mind the Maj was 16+ years old at this point), the pillion pegs were preferred to the Maj's footboards, and the seat was not as comfortable as the Maj but still tolerable (keeping in mind this was a <30 minute ride). From my perspective the fact that I'm on tiptoes on the Forza did cause me some anxiety with a pillion at very low speeds, whereas I'm fine with it solo.
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  10. TedKarhu

    TedKarhu n00b

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    Thanks for that info mate. So now I can cross the 300's off my list. Besides the BMW I can't seem to find max laden weight of the Xmax400 or the Burgman 400. I'd have thought if I don't exceed the maximum laden weight then any scooter would be fine? Surely if they set this limit they must have tested them fully laden wouldn't you think? Anyway for a start I can at least sit on a c400gt at the upcoming Helsinki bike show. Maybe that's the best place to find out once and for all if a 400 will be suitable. I don't want to go any bigger because I'm after something lighter because of my age.
  11. Lethe.au

    Lethe.au Adventurer

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    AFAIK the major points against the new Burgman 400 were it's relatively high price, which probably isn't relevant if the BMW is the other scoot in the frame, and the lack of traction control. I ruled it out simply due to lack of local examples to test ride.

    On weight and usage, I expect even the Forza would realistically be fine with 200kg of payload as those sorts of specifications are very conservative, and I don't expect it would have any issues travelling at 100km/h with such a load either. If that was the task at hand I'm confident the Forza could handle it. But if I were going to travel long distances with that sort of load on a regular basis, such that it was my standard trip, I'd want a bigger machine that I wouldn't be pushing as hard in various ways (engine, frame, brakes, suspension). A concrete example is that 300cc is the crossover point between single and dual front discs. The Forza and Xmax (and everything smaller) have single front discs, the X10 350, C400X/GT, Burgman 400 (and everything bigger) have dual front discs for greater stopping power.
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  12. Lethe.au

    Lethe.au Adventurer

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    Maybe a clearer way of thinking about it: my Mum drives a Mazda 2 (~VW Polo) with a small 1.5L engine. Mostly she drives it around the city and suburbs and it's great for that, but roughly once a month she drives it for a few hundred ks at 100-110km/h, sometimes with 3 or even 4 persons on board. And it does the trip fine, but is not exactly in its element. If Mum was making that longer trip several times per week instead of once a month, she would probably be better off with a somewhat larger vehicle like the Mazda 3 (~VW Golf) with more power, better suspension, quieting and comfort features. Similarly, it's mostly that you said that 2-up/100km/h/longer distances is your STANDARD anticipated use scenario that leads me to think you should look a bit bigger than the XMAX 300/Forza class machines.

    Re: C400X vs. GT. The extra cost is there, but its going to design features that seem to reflect your anticipated usage scenario, i.e. better coverage from the windscreen and fairing, more plush seat with lumbar support, footboards rather than footpegs for the pillion offering more flexibility in feet positioning (although the only pillion I've had on the Forza to date prefers the footpegs to the footboards on the old Maj, which is interesting). Obviously it's up to you to decide whether those features are worth the extra cost, but they are matched to your intended usage of regular long-distance travel at higher speeds with a pillion, so it's certainly worth considering.
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  13. TedKarhu

    TedKarhu n00b

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    I agree with all your reasoning & now I realise the gt would suit my needs over the x. But comparing it to the xmax 400 I can't see how it can be worth €2,000 more - apart from the BMW has a 3yr warranty v. the Yams 2yr. I also still have to find out the payload of the Xmax. I'm sure going a few kilo's over the permitted weight isn't that important (apart from maybe making the front end light) & remember my round trips of 700kms are on smooth flat roads (no hills). I have to wait til Spring now for a test ride so by then I'll have whittled the list down to 1 or 2. There's one more thing I'd like to know regarding the final drive. Is it a belt from the engine to the rear wheel or cogs? BMW call it a "gearset". Thanks again for your input.
  14. Sparkytoo

    Sparkytoo Quiet Rider

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    Is there any indication that American Honda will make the 2019 Forza available in the USA? All their web site lists is the 2015/2016 model info.
  15. DRO4

    DRO4 Adventurer

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    I inquired at a local dealer in NY area as well. They said no plans for 2019 also (that would be a MY2020 per american model year standards). The guy was the vice-president of the largest moto dealership in the area and seemed knowledgeable/aware of the situation.
  16. Lethe.au

    Lethe.au Adventurer

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    Unfortunately the only higher speed areas nearby are uphill/downhill. My maximum speed with a pillion, total rider+pillion+top box+gear weight probably around 180kg, uphill, was an indicated 105km/h. On level ground I expect that ~115km/h would be attainable, but am unable to confirm. I queried my pillion on the experience and she said it was comfortable and felt safe/stable (this is with a top box back rest mind you). Her only complaint was that when I put the windshield up it redirected the air straight into her face (the pillion sitting higher than the rider), increasing noise level and probably affecting comfort over longer durations.
  17. Lethe.au

    Lethe.au Adventurer

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    So after three months with my new Forza, I have some suggestions for future improvements. We should be clear at the outset that this is already a fantastic machine, however.

    Engine: It's no secret that the Forza's 279cc single banger falls short of the 292cc unit in Yamaha's competing XMAX 300. Not only does the Yamaha deliver slightly more power, but more importantly it offers better fuel efficiency also, presumably at least partly owing to its much touted variable valve timing technology. A new engine from Honda on par with (or superior to) Yamaha's unit would take away one of the major reasons one might currently preference the XMAX over the Forza. And of course looking slightly further afield there's the electric revolution...

    Underseat Lighting: In many ways the Forza positions itself as a premium experience; unfortunately this does not carry over to the underseat storage area, which although spacious, lacks both underseat lighting and full felt coverage.

    Electric Folding Mirrors: This is not just wank, hear me out. The Forza's spacious mirrors are one of its best features, and better yet they can be folded in when serious filtering is required. The problem is unfolding them. If you haven't progressed to the front of traffic by the time it starts moving again, there is inevitably a rush to unfold the mirrors into riding position before the traffic takes off. And sometimes that doesn't happen and you end up riding with one or both mirrors folded. This is particularly a problem with the right-hand mirror, because to unfold it you either have to take your hand off the throttle and front brake, or reach across your body with your left hand to make the adjustment, and in doing so you are introducing an additional cognitive task and compromising your ability to control the machine whilst changing its balance slightly, and all while you are surrounded by other vehicles. It's a hassle that dissuades from casual use of the feature, but more seriously it's a recipe for an accident. Having a button to fold/unfold the mirrors would make using this feature far more workable, seamless, and safe. Additionally, the mechanism could be integrated into the startup/shutdown sequence for the bike, i.e. mirrors fold when off, unfold on startup, increasing the 'premium cachet' of the machine.

    Dash Navigation: The Forza's dash is pretty good by most standards. Everything is clear and readable; lots of information is provided including range estimate and continuous fuel consumption, and the speedo and tach do a nice analogue sweep on startup. But it does lack the integrated navigation systems that are showing up in BMW's C400 series and the new Vespa SuperTech. And as nice as the large dual dials look, the tachometer isn't necessary on a CVT machine that spends 90% of its time between 4200 and 5800rpm, so there's lots of space available to cram in the fancy display stuff.

    Might add some more later, but that's the major stuff.
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  18. The Bigfella

    The Bigfella Big Adventurer

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    I just took my older Forza (I think it's a 2015 - haven't really bothered to check - bought it off a mate recently) on a 600 km, two day jaunt to do a visa run last week. Two-up, with a bit of gear, but not too much. Together, we weigh about 170 kg.

    [​IMG]

    Here's the elevation profile for day 2

    [​IMG]

    Nice ride through the mountains... lacking the punch out of corners that my Multistrada has :D, but it was OK.

    [​IMG]

    I would take it again, over one of my 250 or 500 Hondas, if two-up.
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  19. DRO4

    DRO4 Adventurer

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    You should have waited to receive the bike first.
  20. HamsterTheRipper

    HamsterTheRipper n00b

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    You jinxed it...why ?! I ended up getting NMax 155 from Yamaha.

    Reasons why I did not buy the Honda are mainly build quality and design faults, I hope they will fix some of those in the updated models:
    1) Built quality (plastic) - rattles a lot going over small imperfection of the road
    2) Suspension - very very stiff, even though the settings were in the middle
    3) Size of the underseat storage - it is quite narrow and you must have a small head to be able to put 2 helmets in there. Mine barely made it (size M, 58cm Arai Vector 2), with the second helmet in I could not close the seat, no matter how I positioned the helmets. The storage in the X-Max 300 is definitely more usable.
    4) Why do you put horn where blinkers should be?!Makes me wonder that this was done specifically for Asian countries where everyone uses horn more often than blinkers.... though you will get used to it eventually, but need a longer thumb for that
    5) Rubber floor mats - They move around when you put your feet on them, gives a very strange feeling when riding as your legs jump up and down going over a bump, could they not lock them in place properly, or just make some grooves on the plastic and throw the rubber mats away?

    Overall, did not feel that it was worth $9K Honda is asking for the bike.I would have bought it for $6.5 without questions since Yamaha's X-Max 300 is $7K and the Yamaha's built quality is better, yet ergonomically I have issues with the Yamaha's front floor boards - taller riders beware (over 175cm)

    I will wait for a couple of years - see what is going to happen to the Honda and their quality control at the Thai factory, and whether they are going to drop the price or not. Unfortunately, most of the reviews I watched were filmed by guys in UK, Portugal and I believe the bikes they get may be assembled somewhere else(Europe, probably Italy), not in Thailand, where the Aussie one comes from. Cager on Two Wheels commented on the built quality being excellent on the Forza, yet I did not find it so, at least not for Australia.

    P.S N-Max 155 has almost the same maximum speed as Forza 300, weighs 60 kilos less, and mises 10HP and 10NM. It is very light and nimble, has ABS and in my opinion is a great machine for commuting and occasional highway use. I would go to the twisties on the N-Max, yet I am not expecting it to perform as an R1, though it will be quite capable of delivering fun where the speed limit is under 80km/h, and still keep fuel consumption under 3.0L/100Ks