2020 Fixed-Fairing Indian

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by Rollin', Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Rollin'

    Rollin' does it come in black? Supporter

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    1770 cc, 120 hp liquid cooled v-twin engine. Fixed fairing Indian touring bike. 2020?
    Info - https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-fea...ted-with-new-liquid-cooled-v-twin-engine.html

    "The patent shows a 60-degree V-Twin with a single overhead cam manipulating four valves per cylinder. Despite the visible fins on the cylinders the engine is actually liquid-cooled, with the water pump on the left side of the engine being driven by the crankshaft via a belt or chain."
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  2. 72 Yamaha RD350

    72 Yamaha RD350 Been here awhile

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    From the spy picture I saw, I fear this thing is going to be hideously fugly.
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  3. Rollin'

    Rollin' does it come in black? Supporter

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    Victory engine?

    "What this means is that this new patent was filed by Polaris but the rights were then transferred to Indian. The only other patent I could find with a similar setup were for the frame of the Indian Scout which shares much in common with the Victory Octane. This suggests that the engine design was initially intended to be used for Victory but will now live on with Indian."
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  4. 72 Yamaha RD350

    72 Yamaha RD350 Been here awhile

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    That was my first reaction to the engine as well - looks like a Victory. A YouTuber pointed out that the radiator is very similar to the Scout.
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  5. Eddy Alvarez

    Eddy Alvarez Motorcycle ADD Supporter

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    I question the decision by Polaris to kill Victory. Every Victory owner I have met around here is very resentful towards Polaris and most conversations usually end with a loud and angry "F Indian AND Polaris!" Others have mentioned moving to HD as they worry Polaris could pull the plug on Indian just like they did to Victory in a few years if they aren't making enough money.

    Over the last 18 months I was in the market for a heavyweight American cruiser. I test rode the Springfield and almost pulled the trigger but ended up buying a Road King due to the fact that there is ONE Indian dealer within an hour drive from me, but at least six HD dealers in the same area. I believe Indian and Victory could have been sold under the same roof but I am not a businessman nor do i know Polaris' future plans.
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  6. JaySwear

    JaySwear Been here awhile

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    Victory for the modern machines and Indian for the more traditional. Would have made sense to me to have them both, but maybe they decided moving everything to Indian made more sense. Still, they killed off some interesting models and got rid of some loyal customers when they offed Victory. Of course the only Victory showroom I ever saw was one of the saddest things. Three, maybe four, models on the floor and one super uninterested salesman in a building the size of a two car garage.
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  7. st3ryder

    st3ryder Been here awhile

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    The 111 Thunderstroke has known heat problems re rider comfort, so a water cooled model may be the best answer for them considering the highly stylised body they use that keeps heat in engine bay afaik. Plus they'll be able to squeez more HP out of smaller engines. Indian is the storied marque, Victory was not, so for Polairs to stop "competing against itself" by selling two lines of heavy weight cruisers, it made sense to go with the histroic brand like back in the 40's when Indian and HD were the only 2 survivors in the American-made market. Personaly, I'd go with an Indian over a HD if I was looking for a heavy weight cruiser with HD a very very close 2nd. I've owned an HD and I like HD a lot, but......Indian IMO seems to have more style.
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  8. ARiderX

    ARiderX Long timer

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    But where is the real continuity still linked to that marque, aside from some marketing babble and some brand new bikes that are supposed to (fakishly) evoke a side-valve flathead design? The marque has been sold and passed on to different owners more than a dozen times. Rebranded royal enfields, rebranded italian bikes with royal enfield engines, moving the factories around every time some new venture capital wanted a go at a motorcycle adventure, ...

    In that light the whole Indian thing is a complete travesty, and the brand should have died and stayed dead in the 1950's when it happened. The first 50 years Indian was a brand to rival harley, with 'sporty' (for the time) motorcycles and a great racing history. Now it's just a nameplate owned by a general motorsports corporation.

    Don't get me wrong, these are pretty bikes. Pretty in the sense that I would stop and check them out on the street if I saw one. But then I can't get over the whole opportunistic move of polaris just buying that badge, the whole 'way too retro' engine design (especially making it look like something it isn't, just doesn't sit right). And there's a few design lines and proportions on the bike that are just off, like that big slab of space and sheet metal from the back of the engine, under the seat, to the rear wheel. All this from a corporation that has proven they will shut them down and the first sight of trouble.

    While not a big Harley fan either, I'd have a Harley over any Indian any day of the week.

    Regarding this water cooled Indian, I might respect that one a bit more. At least they wouldn't be restricting themselves for the sake of retro design. The might even tighten up the design some. In the same way that I'm much more favorable to a scout (water cooled, funky industrial machining on the heads instead of going for a fake fin-look). If the scout was 1,2X the size, I'd have one already. As it is, it's way too small for someone 6'4".

    Also, I really liked Victory a lot more. At least it's a brand that stood on its own, fresh, young, new, making its own history. Really great looking bikes, imo way fresher and more exiting looking than harley at the time, especially from 2006 onwards with the 100ci models. I waited forever for Victory to come to Europe, and when they finally did, they closed shop a few years later. The few times I saw them in real life, I knew they got the bikes right.
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  9. 72 Yamaha RD350

    72 Yamaha RD350 Been here awhile

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    HD and Polaris are not building motorcycles purely for the nostalgic tribute to history. Corporations are in the business of making money and terminating Victory made sense from the standpoint that Polaris captured more market share and sales under the Indian brand in the past four years than they made in nearly 20 years with Victory. Keeping the product line slim keeps their costs low which will benefit them if the large V-twin market continues to shrink. Bringing out the FTR looks like it is going to be a smart move.

    Conversely, at some point HD will need to collapse their product line as they introduce their stated goal of 50 new models. Currently HD has ten different models in the Softail lineup, seven different models in the Sportster, and another ten models in the Touring series, plus three Street and two Trike models. While all of these bike share major and minor components, keeping them all on the active build list does increase sustaining costs and puts inventory pressure on dealers.

    Indian needs a new engine to compete against the M8. Polaris/Indian and their Thunderstroke 111 forced HD to do something it would not have done otherwise - step up their game in the powerplant arena. Polaris/Indian's success shows that HD was simply too slow with rolling out Project Rushmore improvements.

    My wife's affection for riding pillion and inability to easily mount/dismount the VStrom places me in the market for either an Indian or HD. Indian needs a large water cooled engine for its touring bikes. The heat off the TS-111 is almost unbearable even in moderate summer temperatures of the northern latitudes. I have no idea how anyone south of the Mason Dixon line copes aside from de-catting and spending money on tuning upgrades. I have not found the stock 107CI M8 to be anywhere near as hot the few hours I've ridden one in comparable temperatures.

    The few Indian dealers isn't a great concern to me. I do have a dealer within 20 miles of my house, but I haven't read of any significant reliability failures suggesting that a huge Indian dealer network is necessary. The fellow who won the 2016 Hoka Hey challenge on a Chieftain put over 200k on his bike with nothing but oil changes, tires, and a battery replacement. I understand that a broad dealer network may provide peace of mind during traveling but nothing creates more unease to me than the picture of the M8 with the shattered crankcase from a counterbalance gear that shed a couple teeth and got out of sync with the piston. We know that manufacturing defects slip through, but still... that picture is soul crushing.

    I drive by Polaris corporate HQ every week day. I can tell you that if they kill Indian a whole bunch of employees will be out of a source for new bikes. I pass dozens every day during riding season headed to work. And when I was at my dealer recently looking at a used Springfield in a prep building - there were dozens upon dozens of new Indians on hold for Polaris employee pick-up. Most were Roadmasters but there was a sprinkling of other models too.

    What detracts me from Indian the most is their accessory pricing. If you thought HD accessory prices were high - be prepared to have your bank account brutally raped. I could probably get past the cheap looking plastic switch gear with the thin metallic plating, but $1,000 for a sissy bar and backrest or $3,600 for a tour pack is ridiculous. That's what is driving me to HD with its shitty color palette. I don't want to have to trade in a bike on a higher trim level bike simply because it's cheaper than buying the one accessory I want or need.
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  10. fldfcnscsnss

    fldfcnscsnss Been here awhile

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    Polaris' accessory pricing turns me off too.

    Otherwise, solid bikes and the new water cooled bagger will be great. I could care less about heritage, lineage, origin authenticity or soul.
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  11. st3ryder

    st3ryder Been here awhile

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    I understand what you're sayng about broken production continuity, (Guzzi is the ony other brand with continuous continity for close to century) but the fact reamins, there are Indian motocycles some on the road and others in museums, from the golden age of American motorcycling manufacturing. And original Indian clothing apparell that has also survived. Those surviving motocycles and apparell pieces, as well as signs and magazine artciles and adverts, exists and predate Victory by tens of multiple decades and are the "genuine" thing, not....not....a Harley clone , but a genuine Harley competitor considered by many to be better than HD, back in the day.

    So as good as Victory bikes are, they're still considered HD clones for the most part, whether they were built in America or not. Indain does not meet have that image. They were the real deal, back then and now as a reserected brand from the past, still have the cache not to be referred to as an HD clone. They have their own heritage to drawn from and build upon. They're not copying HD.
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  12. ARiderX

    ARiderX Long timer

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    So the claim to fame of the current Indian marque is the 'surviving memorabilia, museum pieces, and history from the first half of the previous century'. Not a strong link if I'm honest.

    So Polaris, maker of snow scooters and quads, purchased some ready made 'cache' and heritage by slapping a name to a tank, is what you're saying. Imo it's current Indian that has no image today, courtesy of all the crap that was done under that name from the 70's to 2010. If anything, Victory had more of that illusive 'heritage' because victory was always ever only victory, nothing else, and not 'resurrected'. They were their own thing, having a go at the number one, and I respect that effort much more.

    I didn't know they had that reputation of being HD clones in the US. I thought they were different enough to merit their own identity. In that case you could refer to any V-twin as HD clone. If this was really the vibe, I would think that's a bit biased, harsh and shortsighted from the US cruiser buying public. It was at the time the only US based cruiser manufacturer trying to stand out with a more modern platform, in an era where HD's stil looked like WW2 era bikes. Victory's didn't look anything like Harley's" the engines were unit designs, much less busy looking with cleaner lines, no external visible valve guides, long tall cylinder designs, clean and tight. Good prices, trick cast wheels...

    What does Indian have today for anyone who's not an old fart that desperately needs that WW2 Americana design? Again, they are pretty, but I still wouldn't buy one. I wish they could have kept some of that victory tooling and line up, to offer something modern and slap that Indian badge on there. I don't care about what name it says on the tank and could live with an Indian branded victory. Like what they did with the octane/scout.

    I'm not at all into baggers, but I'd much rather have a victory cross country with an Indian badge that the current chieftain or whatever it's named. Or a Hammer, or jackpot or something instead of the scout or most of the softails...

    Then again, I agree with @72 Yamaha RD350 , if the brand logo flip made Polaris more sales and more market share, it was obviously the right move. Who am I to argue those numbers? Just, again, says a lot about the buying public.

    I'm still not fully convinced about the staying power of Indian. They did switch up their line-up with ducati monster type bikes for a younger audience. And apparently also now watercooled tourers. So we'll have to see, I guess.
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  13. shupe

    shupe Been here awhile

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    So Polaris killed Victory (which had 4 valve heads), and brought out the 2-valve Thunderstroke.
    Harley then brings out 4-valve heads, so now Polaris has to as well.
    I think Polaris should just buy Motus and slap an "Indian Four" emblem on it.
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  14. Rollin'

    Rollin' does it come in black? Supporter

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    The "new" Indian looks like its a leftover Victory design with an "Indian" fender. People will still pretend that its a real Indian?
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  15. Rollin'

    Rollin' does it come in black? Supporter

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    Raptor?

    [​IMG]
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  16. Backlund

    Backlund Been here awhile

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    I've owned two Indian 111's, a Classic, and a Vintage, neither were hot to ride, at least in the casual way I rode them, with nothing to impede airflow like windshields or lowers.

    However! I've pretty much abandoned heavy V-twin cruisers for lighter, much sportier, and MUCH less expensive bikes. Indian (or HD) no longer offer a machine that I have one atom of interest in, I'm having too much fun on my 1200 Thruxton and V7III.
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  17. st3ryder

    st3ryder Been here awhile

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    I agree with you about big heavy bikes not being as much fun, let alone having to pick up if dropped!

    Indian's new approach to keeping the heat down is to have the rear cylinder shut down when running very slowly like when stuck in traffic, so it's an issue of which they're aware. :-)
    #17
  18. MHaz01

    MHaz01 I Used To Be Faster

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    This is one of the big reasons why I bought an M8 HD bike for two-up touring. There are eight HD dealers within a 45-minute radius and only two Indian dealers in the entire state. And some states/provinces where I travel have zero Indian dealers. Yet nearly every city has a HD dealer or a service that can repair a Harley. I'm not convinced that Indian is a long-term play for Polaris.

    The Victory CCT I owned was rock solid. I liked everything about it except for my inability make the air shock comfortable for two-up travel, and the lack of any after-market alternative. The engine/transmission were bulletproof.

    Having said that, If Indian introduces a touring bike with a liquid-cooled engine, I'd take a hard look at buying one, provided that it weighs no more than the current Roadmaster, and hopefully one hundred pounds less. And the cat is located somewhere where it doesn't cook legs or feet.
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  19. Eddy Alvarez

    Eddy Alvarez Motorcycle ADD Supporter

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    You should change the title of this thread to "2020 Indian Raptor-Road Glide riders beware!" :lol3
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  20. Eddy Alvarez

    Eddy Alvarez Motorcycle ADD Supporter

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    I found this tiny picture of the actual bike. Looking for bigger and better pictures...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    #20