2020 Unexpected ID-UT-NV Loop

Discussion in 'Ride Reports - Epic Rides' started by MasterMarine, Nov 30, 2020.

  1. MasterMarine

    MasterMarine Long timer

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    It was beautiful up there on the 001 trail. I am sure it was possible, just wasn't a good idea.

    The Loafin' Shed was something we ran across years ago. It is in one of my old Ride Reports. It saved us from being out in some gnarly thunderstorms and was completely unexpected.

    Some trail luck for sure!
    #61
  2. MasterMarine

    MasterMarine Long timer

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    Day 6
    July 8, 2020

    Today we had a couple of loop routes planned. We decided to just do one of them which would take us up to the Idaho, Nevada, Utah border corner and then south thru a gnarly mountain range and then back to Grouse Creek. It was a chance to explore some of NE Nevada and NW Utah. Someday I would like to check out a little further west than we went. This area is pretty far from gas and doesn't have many roads so I need to check it out. We hoped to have a good ride today but also give our bodies a chance to recuperate by having a short riding day followed by some rest time.

    We slept in, ate some breakfast and then left on our unloaded bikes for the loop. It was a lot of fun ripping on some 2 track for the morning. I did not take many pictures on the loop. Some of my memories included great sections of hardly ever ridden 2 track, a swamp crossing that wasn't really bad at all, watching a very big hawk land in the top of an undersized tree, riding on a gravel road for miles with a million locust on it that would fly up as I was riding over them and too many NO TRESPASSING signs.

    This first was on the road that goes to a bridge to get across Goose Creek. It also appears to be part of the California Trail.

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    So we found an alternate route but that one was also blocked by another NO TRESPASSING sign. This was actually where we were supposed to come back down after having gone up to the border corner. So we moved on without going there.

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    From there we went south. We went thru another ranch property.

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    This road took us right by a ranch house and shop so we looked around for someone to talk to. No one was around so we continued on. Just after leaving the main compound, we saw a truck with a cattle trailer behind it. We talked to the ranchers and they told us we were ok to continue on thru their ranch as long as we stayed on the main road.

    They had some hay harvesting activities going on and were cutting hay in some of their fields and baling in others. The road was pure silt for much of it because of all the driving around that was going on. As I came around a corner trying not to crash in the silt, I found a HUGE harrowbed coming straight at me. It was a big one set up for carrying the BIG square bales. It looked like a monster truck. Anyway, I avoided it and continued on. We also came by their pump station which had an interesting sign.

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    Finally we passed thru another gate and got after it. Somewhere along this section I almost had a ride ending crash. It was one of those times where you are hauling butt and all is well. Then suddenly the back tire is trying to pass the front. Luckily I was able to just go off the road without hitting anything and slow down without going down. But my heart was in my throat!

    We kept riding and then climbed up to White Rock Mountain.

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    We went down a windy 2 track on our way back to Utah.

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    We did some more running around and eventually made our way back to the Loaf'in Shed. We cleaned up, ate, and enjoyed AC and ICE cold water. We got ourselves and our bikes ready to get back on the main loop headed south tomorrow.

    76 miles today.

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    #62
  3. liv2day

    liv2day Life is about how you handle Plan B Supporter

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    Nice update @MasterMarine! Looks like a great day of riding, sans all the damn trespassing signs. Curious if you had a map showing BLM land vs private property? One of the things that bugged the hell out of me when I did my ride in June was coming across no trespassing signs posted on land that was clearly BLM. I get that ranchers have grazing rights to the land, but they're not supposed to restrict access on a BLM road. I've found it very helpful to have the Gaia GPS app and offline maps showing property ownership - helps me make the decision to go or not if it's clearly USA that owns the land.

    In any event, the scenery is beautiful man, seeing all those pics is really making me want to get over to the OR desert - even if it's just to see the wide open expanses from the back of my truck.

    Look forward to the next update.
    #63
  4. MasterMarine

    MasterMarine Long timer

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    I knew there could be issues there because of the private property surrounding the creek from my research. Looking at the first gate now, we probably should have just gone thru it assuming they just wanted us to stay on the main road. We would have been out the other side to the north pretty quickly. It is frustrating when the private property blocks travel across the only water crossings across a drainage and restricts access to more public land. It is hard to tell if a landowner is just trying to tell you to stay on the road or if they are blocking access sometimes. We had already been to that Idaho, Utah, Nevada border corner point on a previous trip and when we were leaving it then headed east in Idaho, we had come to a gate across the road that was posted there too that caused a big diversion.

    I could have researched tax records to figure out land ownership and then called the ranchers pre-ride. I have had good luck with this in the past. When I was planning the ride I figured it was likely the two day loops I had planned in this area would be sacrificed as we always have more miles planned that we can get done so I didn't worry about it too much. Personally I was more interested in the southern portion of the route near White Rock Mountain which is the part where I actually took some pictures. The state of Utah has some ORV maps of this area around Grouse Creek you can find online so I imagine the local ranchers probably have everything signed up to try to keep people out to avoid problems.

    I am with you man. I want to go riding but I have way to many other things to do right now instead. Looking at the trip photos is bringing back the memories and had me thinking about places we didn't go on this trip or remembering others places I still want to go. I might have to go do some roadbook practice this weekend in the desert of eastern WA (wishful thinking!) or at least ride my trials bike around the yard. Can't wait for summer!!

    Still a couple more days to go. The next one was a long one.

    I hope the other riders come along soon with their own perspective, pictures and videos! This is kind of one sided.
    #64
  5. Humunn

    Humunn Agent Provocateur

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    This was the #1 problem I've had over the years. I would write it off to "all part of the adventure" but there have been times that not knowing public access or private lands has caused more than an inconvenience. I started using Gaia as a routing tool a year or so ago. It has a lot of useful features but one I like the most are the map overlays, specifically the private land overlay. It shows the name of the owner and even public roads that pass through private land as public. I think this comes with the paid (premium) version which is about $30/year on a five year subscription. They have a 3 month free premium version to try it out. FWIW you might check it out and see what you think. It does remove some of the adventure but also a ton of potential turn arounds and on the trail re routes.
    #65
  6. LittleWan

    LittleWan You can do it!

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    "...or at least ride my trials bike around the yard."

    :thumb
    #66
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  7. liv2day

    liv2day Life is about how you handle Plan B Supporter

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    ^^^ this plus 1k.

    I went all in and bought some membership package deal they had for 5 years a year or two ago. The ability to download all the maps with the property ownership overlays is excellent. Gaia also updates the functionality and features on a pretty regular basis, so it's not static. As an example of my own stupidity, had I zoomed in close enough when planning routes during a short trip over to China Hat in October, I would have noted that my track clipped a couple corners of private property.

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    In addition, laying out routes and tracks using their web interface is very easy - far more so than using the crap Garmin s/w. Export the GPX and load onto your GPS unit - easy.

    Sorry for the momentary hijack, figured it was worth it :D.
    #67
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  8. MasterMarine

    MasterMarine Long timer

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    Hey @liv2day and @Humunn,

    Thanks for the suggestion.

    Is there some thread I should look at about using Gaia for route planning with a Garmin? It seems like most of the focus is on the phone mapping app portion. I have been using iPhones and iPads for Road book riding for a while and am not quite ready to use one for my primary nav.

    Does Gaia allow you to do all the track and route editing stuff that is available on Basecamp. Like cutting tracks or routes, reversing them, editing max number of points, convert tracks to routes and the opposite, etc.? It looks like it just allows you to make a quick route that snaps onto the road or trail if it is in the map data. How does it handle your gps data inventory? I have a lot of stuff and tend to look back at old stuff while planning. I like how Basecamp has the collection sorted out.

    Tell me where to ask these questions and/or find out if you have seen it.

    Thanks.
    #68
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  9. liv2day

    liv2day Life is about how you handle Plan B Supporter

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    Hey MM - great questions...I wish I knew (embarrassing). You can definitely edit routes using Gaia, but my experience is you do not have the same level of tools to do so - especially cutting the number of points or converting routes to tracks. I haven't done a ton of digging as I figured out a "workflow" of sorts and roll with it. I plan my route in Gaia and then export the GPX file. I open that route in Mapsource (yes, still using it...lol) and it comes in as a route. I save the file as a Garmin GDB and then use WinGDB3 (freeware for converting routes/tracks/etc) to convert the route to a track. Open this in Mapsource and manipulate using the tools available.

    Honestly, it's kind of a pain in the arse; but the features of Gaia (better topo maps, property ownership, and lots of other overlays available) makes it worth the pain. I still rely on my Garmin for nav when riding, don't have plans to switch to using my phone - though I have had both on my handlebars from time to time when needing to reroute using the offline maps from Gaia.

    I don't know what the storage limits are, but I have tons of tracks uploaded in Gaia. I keep copies backed up locally too, but my guess is the cloud storage available with a Gaia membership is enough to store as many tracks as you can upload.

    One other note that's important for me, I do lots of hiking and use the app for that too - especially when I'm in the coast range or up in the Cascades. I've also been impressed with the Gaia support folks when I've asked questions - they're quick to respond.

    Hope that helps. I haven't searched the forum for Gaia threads yet, but imagine there's probably a bunch.
    #69
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  10. Humunn

    Humunn Agent Provocateur

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    I would suggest signing up for the free three month premium membership and start experimenting. One of the features I like is that it does synch with your phone, although I don't use it to navigate with on my phone but it is nice to use my phone as a trailside option to see where I'm at - it is usually quicker/easier than moving around on a Garmin screen. I used to use OsmAnd for this purpose but with Gaia what you see on your computer you see on your phone. I do use my phone to navigate on the road bike and while overlanding in the Jeep so it is handy there.

    All of the route work you do on BaseCamp you can do on Gaia. A couple of key differences: you can save the work in the cloud so it is available anywhere (this may be available on BaseCamp but I haven't used it) and there are many map overlays that make routing easier and more interesting. We already mentioned the private land overlay which, in itself, provides a huge upgrade in my ability to plan a route. Here are a couple other examples:

    MVUM overlay.
    upload_2020-12-17_5-36-18.png

    Same area near China Hat. Roads and trails overlay. The purple trails are the OHV trails.
    upload_2020-12-17_5-37-56.png

    Here's the private land overlay. Notice how the Silver Creek road is gapped through private lands. This takes a lot of guesswork out of routing.
    upload_2020-12-17_5-40-20.png

    Here's the 1930 topo overlay. If you are into treasure hunting you might like this. I like to explore and this allows me to see things that were on the map at one point in time, pin them with a waypoint and see if I can find any remains.
    upload_2020-12-17_5-44-9.png

    Regarding your routing questions and how it compares to BaseCamp it doesn't appear to have all of those features (or I haven't figured them out yet). Since I don't use a Garmin GPS any longer (I use a TrailTech Voyager Pro), the need to switch between a track and route and back or manage the number of route points doesn't exist any longer.

    For data storage, I use Gaia to build routes but always download a finished copy for my files. I still like to have them saved (route and track) locally as I literally have hundreds going back over the years.

    A couple other features/thoughts worth mentioning:

    Because it is in the cloud you can collaborate with your riding buddies. They can add/modify a route you are working on together (think Google apps).
    Their support is very good. Lots of tutorials and I will receive a response to my email questions within a day. They send periodic "how to" emails which are interesting as they sometimes highlight different ways of doing things that I hadn't considered. (you can teach an old dog new tricks)
    The free premium membership does not require you to enter a credit card. I typically shy away from offers like that. They don't automatically charge you when your three months is up. That tells you something about their confidence in the product.
    The minimal membership revenue appears to provide them the ability to continuously improve the product (vs other free options).

    I signed up for the free three month trial earlier in the year and "tested" it by using it to plan an IBDR trip and a Jeep overland trip. I didn't take me long to know I would buy it when the free trial was up. It is the only routing software I use now. There is an old but still active promo code out there that buys the five year membership for something less than $130 if I recall correctly.

    (and I'm not affiliated with Gaia - just think there app is cool and useful)
    #70
  11. Bonnie & Clyde

    Bonnie & Clyde Wishing I was riding RTW

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    really cool stuff
    #71
  12. jglow

    jglow Two wheeled traveler

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    @MasterMarine this is a great trip! I'm loving the singletrack. Thanks for writing it up. Funny, I've been away from ADV for a while as well, and it's motivating to see a familiar name getting back after it. Looks like you've found a nice middle ground with the ADV-F mindset. I've also taken a liking to the freedom the ADV-F can offer, but I've yet to ditch the tent (or the chair :augie).

    Keep it coming!


    Jordan
    #72
  13. MasterMarine

    MasterMarine Long timer

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    I am going to actually try to make this a possible priority to fire up the Beta and do some figure 8's!


    Thanks a lot for the input @Humunn. I have tried using other web based apps for planning and have not been impressed. After your initial post about the map overlays, I went straight to Gaia's website and scoped them out and they do look handy. I wish Garmin would hire some folks who care about their customer's needs and would introduce all those maps. Their days of using the map as a revenue increasing feature are long gone. I will look around and see if I can find more info about using Gaia for route and track management for other gps units and share if I find something.


    Hi @Bonnie & Clyde. I really am glad you are enjoying our trip. It was a fun one.


    Hi @jglow, I haven't really change my mindset on minimalist travel so much as that I have accumulated better gear that packs smaller and lighter over the years. I typically purchase one expensive item every year so after quite a few years, it is getting pretty dialed. I don't think I am going to lose the tent or chair soon but I am of the opinion that it is best to bring less stuff and try to do so.
    #73
  14. MasterMarine

    MasterMarine Long timer

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    Day 7
    July 9, 2020


    We packed up and headed out from Grouse Creek. A couple more shots of our accommodations and the store.

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    We took a somewhat familiar route that took us up into the hills SE of Grouse Creek. It would follow a fantastic ridgeline as we headed south. You can see some of them up ahead.

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    Off in the distance are the Raft River Mountains we had ridden thru a couple days ago.

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    Great Salt Lake off in the distance.

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    We dropped down the east slope and had some fun riding around in an area that reminds me of City of Rocks. Someone may have accumulated a few pink ribbons in the rocks. Perhaps the guy in the picture above. From there we headed south again and attempted to get to the radio site at Bovine Mountain. We were dissuaded by yet another gate.

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    So we continued on our way south. Eventually we crossed over Highway 30 and then hit the Transcontinental Railroad grade. We followed it toward Lucin. I stopped on an old wash crossing for some photos.

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    Straight line forever!! I hit some pretty high speeds on this leg.

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    Information stop.

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    Who is that coming??

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    We stopped to have a look at some tubes in the desert. More info here.

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    Break time!

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    Scotty on a tube!

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    Trying to get lined up. These last few pics are of the same 2 tubes. It is pretty cool how the composition changes from different locations. This was an even cooler (pun intended) spot to visit than I expected! There are lots of photos waiting to be taken of the contrasting detail of light and dark and shadow.

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    Off we go again.

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    Now it was time for a couple passes. First westbound over Copper Mountain. We had been over this before so I knew what we were in for. Last time it was snowing at the top. Not today!

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    On the other side.

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    We headed south parallel to the range until we got to Patterson Pass Road which we followed eastbound over Patterson Pass.

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    The initial decent was a little loose and steep. We rode down and then headed back south on the east side of the Pilot Range. The Bonneville Salt Flats are out there somewhere. At one point on this road after riding at high speed for many many miles, there was a curve to the left. Even with anticipating it and being concerned I was going to run off (for minutes it seemed), I still underestimated my speed and locked up my brakes and went off the road at the curve. Crazy!

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    We found someone may have got in a little over their head and had to ditch their car.

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    Their view.

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    We looped around Pilot Peak and then headed back north to Montello, NV. We gassed up and grabbed supplies at the store (masks required) and then headed over to the Saloon for some food. Enjoyed some grub and ice filled drinks before getting back on the road out of Montello.

    We rode southwest on some fun 2 track.

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    The day was getting late so we began to look for a place to camp. The wind was whistling so we didn't want to get up too high. We found a nice spot on a saddle south of Murdoch Mountain and set up at K Camp.

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    More camp pics.

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    The wind completely stopped at sunset. Nice!

    Was a warm day today in the lowlands. Almost 100 degrees. Whew.

    155 miles.

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    #74
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  15. MasterMarine

    MasterMarine Long timer

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    Hey @Humunn and @liv2day and anyone else who may be interested,
    I started a thread in the GPS Zone about using Gaia for a replacement for Basecamp. Here is a link. Please stop in there and share your experiences and knowledge. I tried to find one but all I could find was threads about the smart phone and tablet app usage. And thanks for pointing it out as an option! :beer
    #75
  16. Humunn

    Humunn Agent Provocateur

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    Good idea. Curious how others are using it. Now we can get back to the regularly scheduled RR. Sorry for the detour!
    #76
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  17. MasterMarine

    MasterMarine Long timer

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    It was a good detour. Part of the adventure! :ricky
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  18. trailrider383

    trailrider383 867-5309

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    Still following along. :thumb I see a lot of things in your report that I had marked on Google Earth. I will see them in person eventually. Carry on. I will see if you miss any POI's I had marked in that area.
    #78
  19. liv2day

    liv2day Life is about how you handle Plan B Supporter

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    One more slight detour (:lol2), just reading the latest email from Gaia and they're offering a killer promotional deal again...$128 for a 5-year membership.
    #79
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  20. cidi

    cidi cidi Supporter

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    @Liv2day is there a code for that offer? And is that for their premium or standard membership?
    #80