2021 AFT Flat Track Thread

Discussion in 'Racing' started by ADK, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer Supporter

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    Sammy is tougher than he looks , this pic proves it.
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  2. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    I just remember how there was so much negativity about Hooligan racing and production based racers about two years ago. Not to mention a lot of anti-MX bike flat track. Of course two years ago the true present day Super Hooligan bikes were not as prominent, idiots on choppers were.

    I would agree to stay simple, but maybe even pull the size down a bit to 500cc. Maybe even do some classes. One consideration for limiting cost a bit might be to focus on wheel size, 17s specifically. Many of the bikes for consideration are running 17s now, going to 19s is expensive as are the tires. Keep wheels at 17 and there is a plethora of dual sport tires that might suit the racing. Just thoughts...

    Right now I think the Harleys are the "go to" because of ease of getting a Sportster, a bazillion of them were sold and hop ups are known, not to mention some past history from the 883 days. I would think one could do a Sportster up pretty good for what it would cost to get a lot of other models. Right now it would probably cost over $10,000 to get an FTR1200, not sure but maybe about the same to get the KTM. A rough Sportster can probably be had for a couple grand.

    I don't recall ever seeing a bike wadded up that bad. Halbert was fortunate to get away with what he got. Thank goodness for that.
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  3. Rich B

    Rich B Long timer Supporter

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    "I just remember how there was so much negativity about Hooligan racing and production based racers about two years ago."

    I don't think you will find any comments from me that were negative towards Hooligan racing. I have been a fan of it for some time.

    "Not to mention a lot of anti-MX bike flat track."

    That still exists, here and other places. Time marches forward. Rules for singles class have changed. Is what it is. Besides, I think 450's rock!

    "I would agree to stay simple, but maybe even pull the size down a bit to 500cc. Maybe even do some classes."

    You are already making it complex. Use the Hooligan rules, change the weight to something less than 400#, engine displacement 0 - 749cc. Very simple

    "One consideration for limiting cost a bit might be to focus on wheel size, 17s specifically."

    The selection of decent 17" flat track tires exists only for 85's and Mad Dog classes. Using 17's is a non-starter since no suitable 17" dirt track tire exists. You have a huge base of 19" to select from.
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  4. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    I left my answer a shade vague on the topic of the hooligan and other classes because I didn't feel like going back to the 19 or 20 thread and wade through it. I know you were on board with the 450s. But I'd have to look... I guess I did look click here

    That is why it was a bit shocking to hear a comment to add to Hooligan racing.

    For smaller hooligan bikes there are 400s from Yamaha, Kawasaki, and KTM and they aren't very costly to even start new. Then there are the EX/EN500s laying around for a grand or so. The 650 up are already covered in Production Twin classes, so why overlap and if the Hooligans are becoming high buck, doing a 650-700 will end up a frame away from a Production Twin. The 650-700 range engines can perform well, but are still probably more expensive to buy and set up than a Harley Sportster.

    With 19" you are now entering an expensive area, a couple grand for wheels. For an enthusiast class to run that kind of expense, why? Isn't it supposed to be a way to enter racing at a lower cost? Or is everything having to be $50,000 to do it? I'd say try it first then see what happens. Seems someone did that with the early hooligan class which was damn near a demo derby. Some serious riders got involved and it evolved. Problem is it may have evolved itself out of a class for the enthusiast into a class for top level amateurs and lower level pros. Point being how will it be affordable, figure out how to do that. Eliminating a $2000 set of wheels is one big step.

    The "class" thing was only a thought, like the old 125, 200, 250 structure which could actually could make it simpler. A 500 class allows anything up to a 500, make it twins to eliminate the bikes like the KTM500 or whatever. Just make it small enough to have some light bikes running a bit lower speeds. After all, isn't that becoming an issue in 450s, from what I'm hearing and reading. Why does it have to be big and heavy?
  5. Rich B

    Rich B Long timer Supporter

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    "With 19" you are now entering an expensive area, a couple grand for wheels. For an enthusiast class to run that kind of expense, why?"

    There are simply no suitable tires to suit anything over about 250cc that are not 19" flat track tires. It is an expense you can't avoid if you want decent tires. And I simply do not believe in having people out there on tires not suitable.

    Yes there are Dunlop K180's that are not all in 19", but they are spotty on availability, expensive, and really only work ok on a good day. Some people have had some luck with the Duro MT53's knock offs, but not sure they are a good rear tire.

    19" wheels are available used and new. It is an expense. But then the tires available becomes much bigger selection and much better quality.

    Shinko - fairly cheap and don't laugh, they have some compounds that are working quite well.
    Mitas - great cushion track front tire and they wear great
    Maxxis
    Hoosier
    Dunlop

    And I have probably forgotten a brand or 2.

    Don't skimp on tires.
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  6. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

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    Yup. No matter what kind of racing is done,it costs money and always has.
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  7. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

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    He is one lucky boy.
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  8. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Actually Shinko makes 17" flat track tires. Only thing I see as a problem is the rear rim width of most 17 street rims - too wide by about 1-1/4". I saw a guy at Lima running the 17s on one of the Harley/Aermacchi 250s in one of the classes at the spring Lima regional. One reason for why 17s could be run on 500cc and smaller in a hooligan type set up.
  9. Fabricator

    Fabricator Hello Moto Supporter

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    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE make Castle Rock part of a what they might call a west coast swing!!!
  10. Fabricator

    Fabricator Hello Moto Supporter

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    That picture warms my heart, given what that man has been through recently....
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  11. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    Just listened to the Tank Slappin' episode with Sammy. It was old, winter of 2019-20, but they got on some of the track prep stuff. These are some really interesting and entertaining conversations. One of the take aways so far is that the real danger in the 450 singles is not the track, but the riders. These guys talk about moving down, they don't like doing so, but ya gotta eat. The repeated comments are that the new riders in the 450s just get, how do we put this... overly enthusiastic and bounce off each other. Not bad on shorter better tracks, but definitely dangerous at 100+ mph and on bad track surfaces.

    Another take away was that a track may be fabulous one year, but for any number of reasons, is crap the next... or vice versa. So far they don't have much solution to the situation. Kind of look forward to the podcasts with Morehead and Locke.

    Still another is the recognition that there needs to be a blend of brands, but no easy solution. They seem to like the 450s and would like to see the Production Twins more prominent in broadcasts to add to the value for sponsors and help grow the sport in all classes.

    It's just enjoyable to sit down on the "veranda", fire up a stogie, and listen to another Tank Slappin' to see what comes up next.
  12. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

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    Dunno if your joking or complaining or ?
  13. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

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    Yeah. A broken leg. A broken arm. Plastic surgery on face looks like he coulda easily lost an eye but didnt.
    All fun and games.

    Speaking as someone who has worn various casts for months due to racing and riding,its part of the game.
    Hard to laugh it off after the first month or so.
  14. Rich B

    Rich B Long timer Supporter

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    For the New England guys…..asphalt oval racing….

    [​IMG]
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  15. ossadmr

    ossadmr Long timer

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    This is not flat track, why even list same ?????
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  16. markk53

    markk53 jack of all trades... Super Supporter

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    I take it you've never seen a good asphalt short track? I saw one of the old MARS races years ago at Charlotte. Totally awesome. They used worn out flat track tires and it was as good as a lot of flat track races, backing them in and sliding out on XR750s, sometimes with wisps of front tire smoke on the way in. I'd go see another. I don't remember any get-offs in the races. Can't say the same for the Legends short track cars. I think they did more laps cruising after spin outs than actual race laps. Booorrrinnng! Most of the crowd wanted them to bring on the bikes for more race laps. Probably darn near like perfect dirt, like some ice racing.
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  17. Rich B

    Rich B Long timer Supporter

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    1. Is it motorcycle racing? - Yes

    2. Is it on an oval track - Yes


    Then it is flat track, IMO

    When you started board track racing, was that considered flat track?




    :hide


    :rofl
  18. ossadmr

    ossadmr Long timer

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    I didn't say one word about the good old days or board track racing !!!!!! Have you ever saw a rider get off on a 1/2 mile asphalt track? It can be {BAD}
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  19. ossadmr

    ossadmr Long timer

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    Wondering what kind of crap your hero will say? No I haven't seen a short track, but have seen a 1/2 mile but didn't leave as quick as I should have saw a rider high side an broke his right leg in several places. Will never go to another asphalt race including short track. I don't go to flat track hoping to see CRASHES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  20. gks

    gks Been here awhile

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    The fatal crash at the Connecticut round of the SuperMoto championship occurred where the SM track used corners 3 & 4 of the 1/2 mile paved oval.