2021 COTAH DUAL SPORT RALLY - participants discussion and preparation thread.

Discussion in 'Racing' started by Piedrosa, Mar 30, 2021.

  1. David Black

    David Black Adventurer

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    22
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    Friday - Tech Inspection and receiving & installing the RallyComp. Taking the rats nest of wires means not tightening anything down so hard that it gets cut, but tight enough to not flop it’s way into failure

    Attached Files:

    #61
  2. TroopThrowback

    TroopThrowback Been here awhile

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    May 11, 2013
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    920
    Love your roadbook reminders. Always smile! This stuff is so much fun!
    #62
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  3. David Black

    David Black Adventurer

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    Saturday - start day. Came into the start with only a couple hours of sleep and completely nervous. I had signed up a day before the deadline without even owning a 4-stroke bike. So I had to find/buy a bike, tank, nav tower, tires, pegs, and everything to turn into a rally bike, Also had to get summer-time camping gear, tools, spares, etc. I prototyped getting everything into the official “malle-moto” trunk and felt ready when we departed a week before the event, but the night before, I was still trying to sort out a few last things/tools etc. You can never have enough tools but with limited space, you have to make tough choices. Having never done a rally or had more than 10 hours on my Husky 501, it was an anxiety-ridden educated guess.

    We arrived at the staging the staging area, dropped off the trunk and the “prep anxiety” subsided because it was “locked in”. I’d say that most of my anxiety was about getting to the starting line and a wave of excitement took over when the countdown began 5,4,3,2,1…go.

    I left and headed out of the venue, passing the Eclipse Waypoint for the start, and getting my fist of many “beeps” from the RallyComp. I headed out on the road and approached the first intersection, and went straight instead of turning right. I quickly figured out the mistake, returned to the intersection reset my odos and watched Jared pass me. I followed out of town through a few right-left-speed-zone instructions into progressively more rural plots. Eventually the pavement turned to dirt and it was “on”. I hopped up on the pegs and worked my way up into the hills above Montrose. Other riders who had made nav errors passed me at a pace I couldn’t match through the woods. I’m thinking a series of GNCC and SERCs races are going to be on my calendar.

    After this woods section, we came to some shallow creek crossings followed by technical/rock uphills that got progressively more challenging until I found myself looking straight up a long boulder-strewn climb. I’d never ridden anything like this before so I dipped into my bag of academics, pulled out the trials training curriculum on traction, kicked it into to 2nd gear, got on the pegs with only a couple inches off the seat, knees bowed out, bike dancing wildly between my legs and let 2-parts gas, 1-part faith carry me up. This was the first of many challenges the Cotah would throw at me where I was tackling a surface or condition for the first time. Once past this section, we crested this range, and came down and up and back down long triple-caution - fatal consequences for mistakes.

    As I climbed the other side of the valley, I was again presented with a long rocky climb, but it was wide enough to not be too psychologically hairy. Got into position and blasted up. At this point, @Piedrosa caught up to me as he was sweeping and passed by. A few minutes later I came upon the scene of Michael’s crash. I stopped and offered help but between Tim and @Piedrosa helping, they sent me on my way.

    A few directions and maybe 20 minutes later, I arrived at the bivouac. I got my camp set up and got my legs up because I was still nursing an injury from the week before. That might, a huge thunderstorm came in for a few hours. It was cool to see my gear could handle it. Next morning, I scrambled to get everything out back in the trunk, load the road book and be at the start. Learned a lot of lessons about how long it takes to pack and eat. Day 2 to be continued….

    Attached Files:

    #63
  4. David Black

    David Black Adventurer

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    Something I barely remember is the neutralization gas stop on Day 1. To anyone reading this that didn’t participate, your roadbook leads you to a gas station, RallyComp starts a countdown timer forcing you to take a 900 second break, get gas, refill your hydration pack, and relax for a minute.
    #64
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  5. Piedrosa

    Piedrosa Been here awhile

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    Colorado
    What you don't like freeze dried food?,,,,LOL. Remember the trick is double the time for letting the boiling water sit inside of the pouch. Awesome pictures!
    #65
  6. David Black

    David Black Adventurer

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    22
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    Atlanta
    BC5506E1-ED87-4008-9A00-1DD50C4DAD47.jpeg BC5506E1-ED87-4008-9A00-1DD50C4DAD47.jpeg AA43A745-E5F9-4488-9C70-3E4E085E9EC9.jpeg F6C5FC8A-71D4-4358-95FD-F41904F222D5.jpeg F476B0EA-4C85-4F68-BB26-85A208EB1382.png 1D9EF2C1-C7F1-4B03-B6D9-8985DA3DF2AA.jpeg 29D39C5C-397E-416B-B261-6BD2FF5D0396.jpeg 74FAB58F-C960-4F2B-9112-7C714AA2517E.jpeg 3C01A893-F912-4CEB-9B19-EB03BA320040.jpeg 36F86CDD-9E4A-4AD9-9851-0BAC9F3D11C6.jpeg 65593E7E-6715-4950-A089-E678AE6E01A0.jpeg Day 2 - I was a bit shaken by Michael’s crash, but it was exacerbated by other rider’s decision to drop out. I took it slow to get the cobwebs out, enjoyed the tacky dirt from the rainstorm the night before. The trail went from lush meadow up to high-desert rocky gnarly. This was my first time dealing with endless rocky baby-head trails and found myself spending a lot of time navigating through them. After a couple hours of this, I popped out onto progressively smoother idirt, followed by pavement and then down into Moab for a fuel stop.

    After the fuel stop, the roadbook took us up to Sand Flats and we did a 20+ km grind at 15 mph. The rally comp starts beeping when you get close to the limit. The game is to “ride the beep” - fast enough to get it beeping, but slow enough to avoid the single beep indicated you’re on/over the limit. The road winded it’s way up, less and less SxS, and wide smooth gravel replaced by narrower loose rocky tracks until I finally reached the gate at the end of the park. The trail eventually opened up to some huge vistas. I stopped to film a couple hits because it was so breathtaking. The path led me down to a road across the ravine, turned into pavement and I worked my way to Onion Creek. This was by far, the highlight of the rally - a dozen creek crossings, amazing canyon and formations, and a fun / flowy surface. Once leaving the canyon, turned onto the highway and drove a few miles to the bivouac along the river (Colorado?) north of Moab for night 2 at the bivouac.
    #66
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  7. David Black

    David Black Adventurer

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  8. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    :thumbup

    What I take from the enthusiasm and reports I have read thus far...

    Inaugural event...
    A mammoth effort of organisation and logistics by Mike and his team.
    What looks to be meticulously thought out, prepared and well run event by a fledgling organsiation.


    Only ten entrants...? :eek2

    I would have assumed that surely with all of the interest and enthusiasts on this site, that an event of this magnitude - conducted within he United States - could have, should have, would have attracted more participant support that ten riders?

    The "build it and they will come" mantra is a noble one... and I am sure that the organizers of events like the NORRA MEX 1000, the Sonora and Baja Rallies all know the feeling all to well.

    If "rally" events like the COTAH are to exist and flourish, they need competitor/participant support. Yes - the sport of moto (navigational) cross country rally is still in it's relative infancy in the USA... I hope this and other events can continue to grow, establish a viability for those that organise them, and the sport flourishes.

    Still seems to be very much a niché market however.

    cheers,

    Troy.
    #68
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  9. Piedrosa

    Piedrosa Been here awhile

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    With us being new and nobody knowing anything about us I think riders have to vette us as a startup organization to see if we can provide that rally experience. I know a lot of riders looked at us as this has to be a straight recreational event like a Starbucks adventure ride if I can't haul ass and go fast . As you know we are so over regulated here that is what drives rally events to other countries. So we had to seriously step back and look at it from a different perspective and we are always looking down that rabbit hole on how to bring the adrenaline to the surface for a rider getting ready to start a stage when the countdown starts in the box. We had to look at terrain features, we had to look at distance, we had to look at navigation, we had to look at rider safety, we also had to look at public safety. With all of these things the development of our rally program did not happen overnight. The ten riders who showed up took a chance on our program and organization and we really appreciate that, but one of the things that we are noticing is that when a rally bike shows up at a motorcycle shop people gather. They want to know about the functions of the equipment on the nav tower. They want to know about the sport, many hare scramble riders have been in awe of how our program works. They look at the penalties that are pretty stiff if you violate a speed zone or a stop. We had to make it to where the riders have to think continuously just like a chess match. Then we had to make it an adventure, something that stirs the blood to make them get up every morning and want to do it again while looking around the bivouac to see who else has that drive and did not DNF. We must crawl before we walk and then we must walk before we run and one of the things we refused to do was write a program and then cut corners and our federal land managers noticed that with us. We wanted total oversight of our riders and a scoring platform that would be beneficial to our participants but also had their safety in mind and the public's and that is where RallyComp comes into our program and we love the device for what it does. Do we have over redundancy in required gear as if it is overkill and the simple answer is yes and it is for a reason and the ten riders who participated in our rally understand why they must have those items in their possession for our rally. Troy I hope you come back to the states soon so we can do some riding it would be good to meet in person and thanks again for letting the guys post to this forum. If it is the same ten riders who show up next year that is fine with us because they are the best bunch of dirt eaters we have met, but I think we will have more then that for 2022.

    Cheers
    #69
  10. BobcatSig

    BobcatSig Fresh Off The Couch Racing

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    The following is from a relatively new guy to both dirt bikes and to rally... and coming from European sportbikes.

    I see a few things as to why.

    Cost. As a new guy into this discipline, I'm amazed at how cheap dirt bikers can be. $900 is nothing to sneeze at, but you think of what it costs to obtain the necessary permits, insurance, camp spots, and equipment - it makes a lot more sense.

    Tubes vs. mousse. I know this was a bone of contention when COTAH was first announced. And while I typically run mousse in my off-road bike, it was a non-issue for this event. Beefy tires with HD tubes and adequate pressure is all you need, even if you're smashing rocks. Only one rider had a flat. None of the top three finishers had any issues, and neither did I.

    Equipment and requirements. I know many read what was required and balked. In reality, it is no different than what you should be preparing for on a long ride. And when considering the type of ground covered, distance, and the remoteness of the course - you absolutely should be carrying things like a PLB or a first aid kit. Same with gear. A few made comments about having to wear protection. I'm a little shocked that people don't wear gear. After hucking my bike at 40 mph on some fast, flowy double-track; I'm fortunate to have walked away with a bruised arm and elbow. Anything less than the gear I was wearing, and I'm looking at some fractured bones.

    Location. Montrose and the western slope of the Rockies is close to nowhere. It's a haul to get there. Most of the participants had a minimum of a 12 hours drive. A group drove over two days from Houston, and it was a near-18 hour drive for me. However, there are few places in the US that have the public land and the distance to accommodate such a thing as this male moto rally.


    For the tl;dr crowd - if you've ever griped about the lack of a proper, FIM-style rally in North America - this is your chance. You missed out this year, so best be ready for next year.
    #70
  11. David Black

    David Black Adventurer

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    The event was solidly produced and the team did an excellent job making a true competitive event. It has a bright future now as it’s proven and there are people like me who will share it to local FB groups for the ADV and Dualsport. I’m actually planning to build a couple roadbooks of N. Georgia routes that can be used with mobile readers to give people a taste of this.

    Very little complaints as a participant. I think it was simply a lack of awareness that led to the smaller numbers. I heard about this event 3 days before the registration deadline because I had just discovered the Chasing Waypoints Podcast. I then posted on the Rally Riders group on FB and picked up one more rider.

    Its not an easy sport to get started - a lot want to do it, but you’re talking $3-$4k just for the nav tower and probably $1000 for other mods. I’m hoping to start producing some videos about rally that will explain all this stuff - I had some amazing mentors reach out to help me get my bike set up. There’s very little content on YouTube about rally which I hope to change.
    #71
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  12. TroopThrowback

    TroopThrowback Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 11, 2013
    Oddometer:
    920
    I concur with the cost hurdle for rally. I came to dirt bikes/rally from a super cheapskate mentality. In the 4x4 world I drive an xj cherokee, so if you’re familiar that kinda says it all.

    That said, I’ve always had used/broken/old motorcycles and really wanted to get into the whole navigation rally sport. Cotah made that possible by being the lowest entry fee of any North American rally by a fraction. Being Malle Moto kept cost down, as did freeze dried foods and tent camping (most of which I already own from boy scouts with my sons). Not to mention no passport and diesel fuel is cheaper the farther I get from california.

    I bought an old used ktm 525 and a secondhand roadbook with ico. I bought a new thumb switch and various components I needed from RMS (who ended up being an incredibly awesome dude to deal with, Matt Glade helped out with all my troubleshooting questions and budget and time constraints).

    I already owned my inReach PLB due to being mostly a solo rider in remote Northern California. I already owned a cheap old garmin that still worked.

    I had to buy a new helmet and some more packable tools. Who doesn’t need better tools?!

    All said, I spent about as much on the purchase of the bike itself ($2300) as I did to go rally with it. And I still have the bike and can go rally again with only the cost of the rally itself to pay for. Everything else I still have and it all works.

    I don’t have a tower, hell I drilled one hole in the roadbook plate and it bolted right to my triple tree. I wired simple two pole switches for aux power with bulk wire, all from Amazon for a few dollars.

    Anyone that was there knows mine was a budget setup, and it performed just fine.

    A truly low buck “beginner” kit setup supplied by a us based vendor could be a big boon to the sport here. I know RNS has a diy setup but that starts around $750. If a super basic one could be done around $350 I think we’d have a lot more folks trying it out. That’s what I paid for my beat up used roadbook holder setup.

    IMG_8736.jpg

    Oh yeah, my ancient ico crapped out day 1 but because we used RallyComp I was able to just use that for all my nav. I was very pleased with that system.

    Troop
    #72
  13. David Black

    David Black Adventurer

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    Atlanta
    Day 3 - A Sisyphean Effort

    We woke up near Moab at our bivouac along the Colorado River. I was a lot more organized and was able to eat a full breakfast and be ready on time. Unfortunately, my rally comp had a malfunctioning GPS antenna and I couldn’t get the system started. We scrambled at the last minute and put in a new antenna, but instead of being the 2nd to leave, I was now last. I finally took off up into the hills above our campground which immediately turned to slick rock with unmarked paths followed by drops down into sand washes and some stretches along some silty roads. I missed a turn and found myself spending 30 minutes trying to reorient myself. Had my first spill from cross-rutting the silty road. My brain seemed to be broken this morning.

    Once back on the right track, I found myself on a big dome of slickrock - super fun as we used CAP headings instead of tracks. I worked my way though this section and commuted to the next which included some pretty gnarly rocks. I have no idea how fast to ride this - we don’t have this type of surface in Georgia and I chose to ride slowly, pick lines that didn’t hit larger rocks etc. This really slowed me down and it wasn’t until the following day where I saw the pace of others, that I learned how I can blast though this stuff.

    As I scrolled the roadbook, a double-caution note came up that said “wall”. As I approached, I literally stopped and observed an 18” wall with lead-up steps. I’ve never even zapped or splattered something that tall on a trials bike, but I studied it and saw a tiny chunk missing with a smaller boulder in front that I figured I could use to launch up. I’d have to let the nearby juniper whip my shoulder, but otherwise figured it like be fine.
    Made the run up, popped up my front, hit the gas, cleared the first step and immediately discovered that junipers don’t flex like our local pines in Georgia. It literally knocked me off my bike onto the rocks. But the bike at least made it to the first step and I found a route from there that was easy to clear the next. The trail gradually opened up into a park with facilities. Still have no idea where I was except a Kokopelli character on the signage. I blasted around the main dirt roads and thought I was correct on my roadbook, but things got weird and “off”. I rode back to my last known spot - a cattle guard and tried again. Still wrong. But the tulip looked exactly like what I was looking at but the next instruction was 12k away and I didn’t want to risk it, so I went back again and drove around some other spots until it finally clicked where I made a mistake. I had taken the main roads when the roadbook put us onto paralllel dirt including another technical rocky climb where, in my haste, I took a bad line and wiped out on the rocks. But at least everything in the roadbook lined up - an hour later. I completed the long commute which took us under I-70 though a dark tunnel and on to the next neutralization/gas stop. I have very little memory or recollection of this time and I wasn’t taking photos.

    The route took us to an area west of the Grand Junction airport where I followed a canal until I realized I was supposed to be on the parallell dirt road. I fixed my position but didn’t have a sense of how to recalibrate my distance. This put me into a series of bad turns that led me into a wash which I thought I was supposed to follow, but ended up traveling for about 1/4 mile until I found a spot to re-emerge. At this point I was like “fuck it…this is actually a lot of fun riding stuff I’ve never ridden”. I finally made it to a waypoint and recalibrated myself for the OP section with only cap headings through petrified dunes. The first one was 5km at 95 heading and I kept re-starting it until I recalled how I do it in the PS4 game - get a distant reference point, head toward it with a sense of how long you were going to the right or left of the heading. During this time, I saw some massive pyramid dunes with seemingly vertical trails going up the side…couldn’t resist. I was actually hoping to see the dam referenced in the next note because it was near the masked waypoint. I finally found the dam, backtracked to where I thought the waypoint was, couldn’t find it, so instead of spending another hour, I hit the button to “open” the waypoint and take a 10 minute penalty. Fuck…it was literally 50 meters away.

    but this is why this is so fun

    The next waypoint was a breeze - I held my line off-piste but then saw a pattern of trails that would generally cross and converge in that heading so I just zigzagged my way through until that beautiful beep came up on the RallyComp. Nailed it.

    The route then took us past the airport runway at Grand Junction, exited the area, rode parallel to I-70 until a tunnel followed by streets took us into Palisades where we they were waiting for me at a private campground. I wasn’t just last in, I was so many hours behind that people cheered when I arrived. It was such a relief but getting dark. I scrambled to set up my tent and was thrilled that we were shuttled into town for a real dinner, and a return to real showers. Got to sleep and woke up to a meeting with the organizer and official who said that if I rode this slow on the final day, they’d pull me off the course because they terrain was too dangerous in the dark.

    Day 4 to be continued…
    #73
  14. David Black

    David Black Adventurer

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    Aug 6, 2015
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Day 4 - Redemption

    Being last meant I could start first - position I held for about 30 minutes until one of the other riders caught me and passed me. As I was following him, I saw my ODO hit the mark for a right turn…he went straight…I went right “boom! Rally!”. I knew I was probably getting beat eventually that day, but I was still in the lead. I made it to the neutralization zone before in ????? town before the others. I filled up, and went across the lot to a Burger King for a bathroom break. It was there I discovered my InReach fell off. Oh well. I got back on the bike, blasted past the heard of riders at the pumps and started to turn onto the highway before I realized they were all yelling for me to come back. I did and thankfully someone had picked up my InReach. I returned to the longest red light ever - nearly ran it because it was using magnetic sensors that didn’t detect me. I lost 2 minutes. When it turned, I took off on the highway to the next section - it was an off-road rocky climb to a communication tower. The guys behind me now caught up and I tried to get on their tails. This was the moment I saw the pace through the rocks and learned to just blast them. I was also humbled by the rear-wheel drifting and smoothness. Goals. I held onto the tail of one ride for quite and was still in front of a couple. I tried to hold a fast pace and used the day to work on speed.

    Eventually, this trail took us down into some Grassy meadows and back up into the hills. I think we had another stop in Delta before returning into a climb back up into the hills, snaking our way into a private road through Escalante Ranch Canyon where we were speed-zoned for 25km at 15 mph. It was painful, but also beautiful.

    9025924D-47B0-43C8-86E8-C273F3B053B1.jpeg 9C99B49B-2699-46BF-8959-DF73FE866E2E.png E4785862-570F-44DA-B45C-C29A9AE6159C.jpeg A85A3397-EC59-46A5-8844-1D550A40BF25.jpeg

    The speed-zone finally ended and I found myself back in an areas that seemed familiar - woods with large pines, and creek crossings that turned up to long rocky climbs. Apparently, we were on trails we did on the first day, but going backward. Th e first rocky climb got me - hit a rock, killed the momentum and pointed me off the half-way off the road into a bush. I got the bike re-aligned and was able to get up without starting over. I then entered a scenic pasture with a pond, looked at the roadbook and had a moment of confusion - I thought I missed a turn. I went back and saw the intersection of trails, took one that I believed was the correct trail only to find myself at the bottom of that same damn rocky climb. Oh well - another opportunity to clean it…which I did!

    Once back up, the road I was on was actually correct, and I came around a hairpin-up and washed out on the silt. Pulled myself together, got another run and cleaned it only to be faced with a seemingly endless rocky / technical climb. I got into my most neutral trials position, and started working my way up with good line choice until I hit a larger rock, lost momentum and went down perpendicular to the trail. My only choice was to go back down to the meadow and restart the entire section. I rode down, rested for 10 minutes and reset myself before hitting it again. This time. I made it to almost the same spot as the wreck but stalled out. I was able to restart and foot-down my way way to the top. In retrospect I was simply tiring out and sitting down at that spot. Need to work on my legs.

    The trail eventually opened into a logging camp and a series of silty logging roads. I kept working my way through until finally hitting what appeared to be a main forest road. I was back under speed control and just enjoying a smooth surface. It was like 20k or more. A group of Jeep’s passed by and I realized I wasn’t wearing my goggles - reached up (as I wrap them backward around my helmet) and nothing. They were gone. Oh well.

    As I rode this road, I was eating the dust of a little yellow car ahead. Couldn’t really see what it was but as I approached, I could clearly see it was a Ferrari F355. They were going the speed limit…I was having to go under the speed limit. I “straightened the curves” and eventually got close enough to pass. He slowed down, let me pass. I beeped my horn and he returned the distinctively Italian beep of the Ferrari horn. Fun moment.

    As this was a boring grind, I reached into my pocket from my phone and saw that my girlfriend had texted me about being at the finish with my sponsor Sam of Great Valley. It was at this time I crested a curve and could see Montrose below in the distance and the peaks above Ouray. I was in disbelief as it was so early in the day. I scrolled the roadbook through the next instructions and saw that it was some pavement, a few turns, and the finish. I literally started crying. I guess the non-stop work building up and testing the bike, equipping myself, and everything frantically getting there as a late registrant combined with the months of training, dieting, practicing etc. just hit me…I couldn’t understand it, but I was bawling like a fool.

    The dirt finally turned into pavement, and I followed a series of instructions through the hills above Montrose, then down onto Main Street, through a couple lights, and finally rounded the corner into the fairgrounds. To some, this might sound like I’m being a bit dramatic, but coming from where I was a year ago, it felt like the hardest thing I’ve ever achieved. I’m still buzzing.

    9025924D-47B0-43C8-86E8-C273F3B053B1.jpeg 9C99B49B-2699-46BF-8959-DF73FE866E2E.png E4785862-570F-44DA-B45C-C29A9AE6159C.jpeg A85A3397-EC59-46A5-8844-1D550A40BF25.jpeg 353AF1FA-67B7-4FF9-B7E4-CD36AFC1FC66.jpeg F25BAE71-49D4-4177-9EA5-344E19D6060F.jpeg 93DC849F-FB83-4860-A499-A24F8B35150C.jpeg 9025924D-47B0-43C8-86E8-C273F3B053B1.jpeg 9C99B49B-2699-46BF-8959-DF73FE866E2E.png E4785862-570F-44DA-B45C-C29A9AE6159C.jpeg A85A3397-EC59-46A5-8844-1D550A40BF25.jpeg 353AF1FA-67B7-4FF9-B7E4-CD36AFC1FC66.jpeg F25BAE71-49D4-4177-9EA5-344E19D6060F.jpeg 93DC849F-FB83-4860-A499-A24F8B35150C.jpeg 1FCFC1A0-B944-4974-BFDA-066D9432B081.jpeg
    #74
  15. TroopThrowback

    TroopThrowback Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 11, 2013
    Oddometer:
    920
    Fantastic report! Can’t wait to tackle another rally with such a fellow. A true class act. Proud to share our 1st rally together.
    #75
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  16. David Black

    David Black Adventurer

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2015
    Oddometer:
    22
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Electronic roadbooks
    Great riding with you too! Can’t wait for the next one. Seems like this is turning into a fun community as rally isn’t very popular in the U.S.
    #76
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  17. Piedrosa

    Piedrosa Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Oddometer:
    210
    Location:
    Colorado
    One of the things I would like to do is give a shout out to the following people who talked with me in person or by phone who lent me their experience as a rally competitor. If they don’t like their name posted here just tell me and I will take it down, but I have to say thank you.

    Chris Vestel @ Motominded
    Scott Bright @ Trails Preservation Alliance
    Dave Peckham @ Rally Navigator
    Mike Shirley @ Rally Navigator
    Andrew Short @ Monster Energy
    Mike Johnson @ RallyComp
    Jim Pearson @ Secret Agent,,, LoL

    Without the input from these above people no matter how small or big the information was I made good use of it.
    #77
  18. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Oddometer:
    38,615
    Location:
    "Swednavia" - f5ederation of Scandwegia
    While I recognize that this statement is true enough on face value, and it is great that David and the other participants are understandably still reliving the afterglow of what was a memorable inaugural COTAH Dual sport rally... At this time, I think it is prudent to pull open the blinds a bit, and take this opportunity to point out (while the enthusiasm dial is still on high) that there ARE a number of various forms of moto rally/navigational/cross country rally oriented events now conducted in the U.S.A and North American continent. Just on this forum alone you can find threads about most of them;

    there are the true desert/cross country rally navigational style races (Mexico);

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/yokohama-sonora-rally-2021.1485054/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/six-day-baja-rally-september-26-october-2-2021.1483945/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/2022-norra-mexican-1000-vintage-motorcycle-racing-on-a-dr350s.1387387/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/el-hilo-oficial-del-rally-2021-norra-mexican-1000-its-on-hombres.1489199/


    there are the NASA stage rally MOTO events (east coast U.S.A.)

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/nasa-rallysport-banter.1255861/ NASA Sandblast Rally and Black River Stages

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/2021-nasa-rallysport-sandblast-rally.1478337/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/2021-nasa-rallysport-nepa-rally.1493944/


    there are non-competion navigational cross country rally events (mostly western U.S.)

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/the-grand-rally.695886/


    ... a few threads on dual sport navigational rally events...

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/shanandoah-500-as-a-fun-roadbook-rally.1520582/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/amateur-rally-racing-world-grows-%E2%80%93-seemingly-exponentially.1502098/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/roadbook-1-day-rallies-for-beginners.1511509/


    and a heap of threads discussing road book compilation and navigation equipment/set up

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/rally-navigator-create-rally-roadbooks-with-google-earth-and-gps.851881/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/open-sourcing-roadbook-creation-introducing-the-tulip-project.1215442/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/rally-navigation-roadbook-creation.801843/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/rallye-navigation-bracket-photo-thread.684282/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/trip-master-rns-ico-roadbook-tips-and-tricks.929978/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/rallyblitz-rally-iphone-app.936183/

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/piste-roadbook-reader-for-android.1507113/


    and of course... :deal

    https://advrider.com/f/threads/the-f5-bivouac-general-rallye-raid-news.543325/

    ... the ADV F5's very own one stop thread for almost everything DAKAR and cross country rally raid sport related news and banter... :drink

    So... to say that; "as rally isn’t very popular in the U.S." is not entirely correct. :1drink

    While it is true that all of the above the events are somewhat spread out and conducted independently of one another (not under the auspices of one centralized sanctioning body, with standardized rules or series - so to speak), each of them is well supported - in their own insular manner. In a population base as large and geographically diverse as the U.S.A. it is easy to understand how this has come about. I for one believe that the potential for this sport is very promising - and I have done since the 90's, back when Franco Acerbis put the weight of his Italian adventure company behind the organisation led by Casey Folks, and the original NEVADA Rally was born as a multi-day Dakar style moto navigational rally event (a pre-cursor to what today is now the Vegas to Reno Desert race).

    Somehow it seems (to me) however, that all of the different arms of the sport within the US today are - each waving independently of one other (David's comment at the top of this post was the impetus that spurred my line of thought).

    If ever the US rally scene gets firing all together - on all eight cylinders - wow. :brow :nod

    However, in the meantime - while @Piedrosa may not have (re)invented the rally wheel in the U.S. - that much we have established.

    It does seem that he has added a nicely polished and very well tensioned spoke to that wheel - in the form of his COTAH Dual Sport Rally event... :D

    My point...? well, there are plenty of events and interest in this facet of motorcycle sport within the United States today... so get out there f5olks, and into it. :wave
    #78
    314ADV, snacks and WIsixfitty like this.
  19. BobcatSig

    BobcatSig Fresh Off The Couch Racing

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2014
    Oddometer:
    4,239
    Location:
    Protestlandia, OR
    Most of the competitive rallies you listed are in Mexico and for everyone outside of Southern California, it's a day to multiple day drive just to attend.

    The rest listed are rides not competitions and none of which are modeled after the FIM standards for rallies. That's an important difference.
    #79
  20. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Oddometer:
    38,615
    Location:
    "Swednavia" - f5ederation of Scandwegia
    Okay "Bobcat" - so as a former pro-motocross and desert racer who has been involved in the sport of DAKAR/Rally raid since 1988 as a rider, driver, navigator, event director and factory team manager, I admit - I am probably not up to par with your level of knowledge as to the nuances of the sports diversity and popularity around the globe, so take my ramblings for what they are...

    THREE of the competition events on that list are in MEXICO... the remainder are all in the continental United States. MOST is a synonym for MAJORITY, and the majority of the navigational/recreational/rally motorcycle events on the list I compiled are NOT in Mexico.

    I read that at least three of the (ten) competitors at COTAH traveled multiple hours - even days to attend. Does that mean that THREE riders equates to most of the participants (at COTAH) in your estimation?

    FYI "Bobcat"... the COTAH Rally is not strictly modelled after the FIM standards for rallies - either. :brow The COTAH Rally is a recreational rally event; it does not comprise timed special stages and transport liason stages as the DAKAR or other FIM CCR events do. Sure it uses a paper roadbook and RallyComp/GPS coindinates in order to define the navigational route... but it has SEVERAL key differences from the rules and regulations that which govern an FIM/FIA rally; due to a number of circumstances and stipulations placed upon the COTAH organisers, so as to conduct the event legally withing the state of Colorado - an effort that I applaud @Piedrosa and his organisation for achieving.

    but just as the Sonora, Baja rally and NORRA events are all variations on the same theme (offroad navigational rallies) all have seen fit to make their own "modifications" to their set of regulations in order to cater to the landscape, legal conditions and clientel of the event they set out to conduct.

    Hence my previous comment. :deal

    So to summarise ... I am not knocking the COTAH event - at all - in fact I have nothing but praise for the job @Piedrosa and his team have done... If anything I would love to see a field of five or six time the number for 2022 as a just reward for the work he has put behind this enterprise.

    There are plenty of rally/navigational events (both competitive and non-competitive) for those riders who wish to participate in such things... THAT is my point. Davids "afterglow" comments merely prompted me to bring the fact to the wider attention of the COTAH participants and other forum members who are interested in this form of motorcycle sport.

    Thanks.
    #80