$250.00 prize (F800GS Military Mode challenge)

Discussion in 'Parallel Universe' started by inbred, Apr 7, 2015.

  1. Full Power

    Full Power Long timer

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    Your " Blackout Kit" would be much easier to install on a DR650, KLR650 or WR250.
    Each of those bikes would be more suitable for " Low Profile evasion and escape" type operations.
    F800 is much higher in fragility, complexity ( computer) , and do not forget the BMW's inherent VALUE in excess of utility.

    Get deep enough in the jungle, you might get your throat cut JUST for the bike, not even have to bother with the extra step of pissing someone off .
    #21
  2. Barbadi

    Barbadi Been here awhile

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    ... looks more like a death wish that is... or something more law braking like illegal night hunting or smugling. :norton

    But for the shake of argument, lets do it the old way the NO SWITCH cavemans way:

    1. make three covers from cloth, soft plastic or whatever, for back light/ front light/ instrument panel.

    2 First two need velcro ends and the respective places of these ends on the bike need the opposite velcro kind glued to them.

    2a the instrument panel will be covered with the fabric sewed with a rubber band perimeter.

    3 Have a place on the bike to hold the 3 covers.

    You stop/ dismount/ slap the covers on/ remount/ gunnit.

    You need like a 15 secont headstart -or to divert from the main road to do that- but you do not harm the bike in any way and you don't try to explain to a bmw shop electrician in Honduras why the heck you have a Kthulu made of wires chocking the life out of your ride.

    You 'll also need night vision googles on your helmet, but something tells me that you got 'em allready :evil

    Good luck!
    #22
  3. inbred

    inbred Sweeter than Yoo-hoo

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    That one even got me laughing Barbadi, where do I send the check? No doubt those bikes would be easier to add a Military Mode Blackout Feature to, Full Power. That knowledge, however, ain't getting me any closer to solving this engineering riddle. These bikes are a bit complex in their electrical wiring, no doubt. But it's still just a dang motorcycle. Two wheels a few lights and a motor. And a crap load of headaches waiting to happen.

    The way I see it, the premise is simple: Be able to cancel a few lights by pressing a switch while on the fly. Neither invest a lot nor jimmy sack the correct running of the machine. If the premise is simple, there just may be a simple solution. That's why I figured I'd tap into the collective intelligence of the Parallel Universe. A couple members have provided some ideas which have gotten me started. Others offer humor. Good humor at that. I have no problem cutting myself a check for the $250 prize if I'm the one who cracks this Davinci code. Some fellers wanna wire their seats to provide warmth to their taints, I just want the option of operation without light. What option is more outlandish?

    Maybe I should start by focusing initially on rearward facing lights. There are the blinkers which do not need to be deactivated since they are manual turn on. Then there are the brake light, tail light and license plate lamp light. These are the three that need to be canceled. We've all read how the the tail light is tied into the CANbus which has a role in regulating it's voltage. People who've tried to add an accessory circuit into that power lead have had issues. If I was to interrupt power to the tail light with some sort of relay or switch (as recommended earlier), what would the likely effect be of to the stoppage of current within the CANbus system?
    #23
  4. STED9r

    STED9r Adventurer

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    It can't be that hard to figure out.
    Put on a dtsp switching ground. Use it for tail and headlight.
    Turn signals, don't turn them on.
    Dash, you're screwed there. Throw a riding glove over it or make up a pull screen to cover it.
    Pcm is going to give warnings when it senses lack of resistance in lights, will show up dash hence a cover.

    Having done a lot of blackout driving, I see a yard sale in your future.
    Cruising down the back forty at even 30 mph, then going stealth, you can't and won't see dick. Won't even mention the transition effect of brain utilizing sight for balance when the road is lit up, to the transition of inner ear balance when you kill the lights at speed.
    #24
  5. machinebuilder

    machinebuilder Long timer

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    That's easy to find out, just unplug the conector.

    KISS
    #25
  6. inbred

    inbred Sweeter than Yoo-hoo

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    Like I said, I've had this feature on every plated bike I've owned over the last 25 years. No yard sales yet, since I wouldn't haphazardly shut off my lights unless it was safe to do so. My example of outrunning bandits in Honduras was really meant to be a bit farcical. Thanks STED9R. Agreed. No need to really worry about canceling out the light of the gauges, if it presents a problem. Same with blinkers. The light given off will be negligible anyway. But in addition to the tail light and headlight, I also need to switch off the license plate lamp and brake light.

    Should I assume that all three of these lamps are powered by one individual circuit? If so then I understand your recommendation for a DPST switch. I had to look that one up: Double Pole, Single throw.

    So tell me if I'm getting this correct: I cut into the ground side of the headlight circuit. Tie this into one pole of the DPST. Do the same for the rear lights, but attach to the other pole. Then when I activate the switch, I interrupt the grounding continuity of both circuits kicking the lights off. A second flick of the switch restores continuity and the lights activate again.

    Does anyone envision likely pitfalls to a solution like this?
    #26
  7. Rgconner

    Rgconner Long timer

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    yes, if you read The Build of MechanicO:

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1030354


    You will see all the problems he has had trying to cut out the ABS.

    Seems the computer does not like having circuits just go open like that. Cutting out the lights like that is likely to throw a error and the bike will shut down.
    #27
  8. Reaver

    Reaver Why am I still here?

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    Uh, no. the bike won't quit over a simple light issue. The other bike needs functional brake lights and is a whole different issue. All the operating functions of the engine are done by the BMSK including the ring antenna, so no messing with that SOB.

    So, who needs the front parking lamp? Remove the bulb. Licence plate light, oops it burnt out officer.

    Tail light - a relay in one of the two wires to interrupt the circuit. As said, unplug your tail light and see that sudden death isn't imminent. Sure, canbus will be upset but will forgive you when all is back to normal.

    Headlight - yes, relay the ground to disable both hi/lo or just the low + wire so you could "flash to pass" the high beam if you need a quick look at the road.

    So that's 2 regular relays to keep it simple. One under the seat and one up front.

    A relay in the gauges switched power wire would kill them without resetting your clock.

    You can bring the beer when you make it to Costa Rica. :1drink
    #28
  9. B_C_Ries

    B_C_Ries Long timer

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    IMHO: You need to have an option of a working headlight on an otherwise blacked out bike.
    #29
  10. inbred

    inbred Sweeter than Yoo-hoo

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    B_C_RIES: Thanks for the suggestion. In your honor, I plan on installing a high powered fog light which will double as an optional headlight during Miltary Blackout Mode. Switch will be independent of headlight circuit. This way, if there's bogies on my tail and I can't discern what's ahead I can hit a switch and activate Forward Projecting Light Only to get me over the hump. It's all coming together now. I'm this close to changing my avatar name to Jonny Quest.

    Reaver....what can I say? Your input is incendiary. Right now I'd vote for your face being added to Mt. Rushmore. I reviewed that thread about that guy who's rebuilding that blue f800 and I can see I'm like a salamander under a rock when it comes to bike circuitry. You and them other blokes are wizards at your craft. Thanks for your assistance along with the others who are all prodding me towards the same relatively simple solution.

    If you could explain the difference between using a DPST switch as other's have mentioned and a RELAY, that'd be a big help. I've used relays before, but see them as being different than switches. I've used relays to allow small impulses of voltage to open a larger path to 12 Volt battery main juice. Don't understand why that's needed here.

    [​IMG]
    #30
  11. STED9r

    STED9r Adventurer

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    All a relay is, an electrical switch.
    While nothing wrong with a relay, adds a couple more failure points and, unless you spend the monies for a marine grade relay, even washing the bike can lead to issues.
    I like the toggle myself. Non electrically controlled and wiring and cost is easy.
    Run ground circuits from pcm to switch. Connect cut ground wires to lights to switch.
    Dash lights will fubar your night vision, period. Maybe not on a full moon night, but late night with cloud cover and dash you'll be lucky to judge distance let alone see 20' in front of you.
    Get a set of nvg's, second gen are cheap now.
    Yes, I've done an awful lot of night stuff, I may know a thing or two about night time eyesight.
    #31
  12. Reaver

    Reaver Why am I still here?

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    Yes, you have the theory correct. A switch would work with the front lights, removing the ground and that would also kill the parking light (rather than removing the bulb). My previous idea would allow the high beam to function normally but whatever you decide.

    I was thinking a relay for a few reasons. First is that the tail light is Canbus controlled and may not like another 6' of wire resistance in the circuit. May be nothing, I don't know. By wiring it to operate normally with power off, and placing it in the tail by the light (protected under the seat), it wouldn't add resistance or require power under normal riding. You'll have to try it, that's all.

    For the headlight, well I just don't like running power wires along turning handlebars, flexing them and possibly shorting. If you wire it up to break the ground then shorting won't matter so much. :D

    Really, I'm just an overly cautious Aircraft Mech. :1drink
    #32
  13. STED9r

    STED9r Adventurer

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    Or, run a resistor/shunt, off power lead from Canbus switched to ground to alleviate lack of resistance. But, then you'll need to know load of light and resistance of connectors. If one really wanted to get into the physics part of it, number of strands in said wire, length and copper percentages.
    But, does the high beam utilize same ground wire and merely splice at connector? Giving the hi beam is own ground path alleviates disabling both.
    Not that you're wrong at all. I hate adding failure points that isn't idiot proof.
    #33
  14. CavReconSGT

    CavReconSGT Just the right amount of evil. Supporter

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    I think he will be getting all kinds of warnings on his panel from the canbus system. It won't hurt anything but I am pretty sure it will come up with lamp errors. I had warnings when I was installing my additional taillight and had it disconnected. The more disconcerting problem was when trying to troubleshoot the pins just the additional current draw of the troubleshooting light would cause the canbus circuit to turn off the specific wire tested.

    If the circuit to any of the lamps is cut. I believe he will get panel errors. Not really a problem, but something he might want to know. When he reconnects the circuit, the errors should all clear.

    KR
    #34
  15. inbred

    inbred Sweeter than Yoo-hoo

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    STED9R: Thanks , Man. Come to think of it, on all the bikes I've outfitted with Military Blackout Mode, the gauge cluster was always shut down too. I trust your judgment that it'll be tough to maintain forward progress with the ambient light of the cluster wreaking havoc with my vision. Guess I gotta review the thread because I think Reaver mentioned how to defeat the gauges as well. You seem to be laying down a sort of law. That if you're goin' for Military Blackout Mode, you gotta go all the way. That is the new credo here then. Dash lights must be nixed. I gotta admit I like your comments on basic switch vs. relay. This relay idea seems one that appeals to me, however. No idea why, but, in deference to you, I will invest in Marine grade wiring as well as relays even if it costs a bit more. West Marine is only 50 minutes ride from my place of abode. The reality is the finished product here has to be the cat's ass or other F800 owners may look somewhere else for their blackout options. With you and Reaver helping out, the finished product here is liable to be something of beauty. Something that gets the job done with subdued class, like a diamond blade. No noticeable frill, just rock solid performance. My brand new 2014 f800 is more than willing to be a test case. What's the worst thing that can happen?

    Now I have to hit google and key in some search terms to get acquainted with what you are proposing as possible routes to success. Things like PCM and Resistor/shunts/wire strand densities are a tad bit foreign to me. Certainly get the abstract concept, but integrating them into an actual workable model makes my head spin a bit.

    kr1: Much obliged for your input. Given you have experienced firsthand the repercussions of the CANbus system it is great to listen to your observations. So far I haven't crossed paths with the dreaded CANbus directives. To me it sounds like a bad episode of Star Trek. Instead of the BORG I may run smack dab into CANbus. What the hell would that look like from the bridge? Probably a big imposing mass of metallic cubic energy. I hope it avoids me, but if I ain't so lucky I'm gonna keep on repeating to myself over and over in low measured tones what Revear mentioned: CANbus forgives almost everyone who trespasses within it's domain. Again, though, it's mighty cool of you to tip me off to your actual experiences. I owe you one.

    [​IMG]
    #35
  16. CavReconSGT

    CavReconSGT Just the right amount of evil. Supporter

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    The CANbus is pretty cool. It works as advertised. As soon as the problem is cleared and you turn off the bike and turn it back on, it resets.

    KR
    #36
  17. machinebuilder

    machinebuilder Long timer

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    I think its time to put this troll to sleep

    1, he doesn't own one
    2. he's a lawyer
    3 he's spending more time makeing mimes and trolling the internet that he is representingg his clients....................

    4 maybe that's why he needs full blackout
    #37
  18. inbred

    inbred Sweeter than Yoo-hoo

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    Who put the bustle in your hedgerow, MachineBuilder? This thread likely irks you so because it's long in wind and short of actual results. Guess I can agree with that part of your babble. This is largely because I wanted to have a certain basis of knowledge (and a plan) before I started cutting wires. But, I've been given enough advice here that I think I will take a stab at this. If on the other hand, you just plain aren't interested in the subject of Military Blackout Mode then go find some salt to pound, Mister.

    Next time I post, I will have actual progress to report or seek answers to specific technical issues. Until then.
    #38
  19. Drwnite

    Drwnite Adventurer

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    +1^ Inbred, says it all:poserBeen reading way too much fiction, so insanely dangerous, the thought of having an unsuspecting pillion, lawyer my ass, doesn't understand liability :huh
    #39
  20. inbred

    inbred Sweeter than Yoo-hoo

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    Wow, I'm collecting a lotta Peeps lately. Peeping into my profile like little genius investigators and SLINGING comments about my occupation as if they've discovered some sort of hidden secret. Of course, none of these charmers have supplied any logic concerning what's "wrong" with my desire to have Military Blackout Mode on my f800. If you aren't interested in the subject matter then it's really quite simple: Instead of making half-witted yet amusing comments, one approach would be to figure a way of resisting the seemingly over-powering urge to open and review the thread amongst all the others. They call that the ability to discriminate amongst viable choices. It's a good skill to have. Learned that one WAY before I attended Law School.
    #40