350 cc big bore kit for KLX250, Ready to ship!!

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by Bill & Jo Ann Blue, Nov 11, 2008.

  1. *Gravy*

    *Gravy* Jedi Loser

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    True, but answering the questions here makes it so we don't all have to ask the same questions.

    I've been thinking about this kit but I would like many of the same questions answered others here have asked without reply.
  2. Bill & Jo Ann Blue

    Bill & Jo Ann Blue Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Oddometer:
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    Wichita, Kansas
    I will answer your questions below.

    All of these questions have been answered in previous posts on the Kawasaki forum & Adventure forum.

    I now use a fiber head gasket with a steel fire ring.

    Q1: What is the outside diameter and depth of the sleeve below the cylinder deck surface? Older KLX250s (I believe of the pre-300 era) had a narrow cavity in the cases that even the 300s sleeve wouldn't fit unless the cases were modified. It was a depth problem as well as the area around the crankwebs was thicker on the old 250s than on later 250/300s. If I remember right the split came around 96-97?

    A1: The 351 kit will only fit the 300 & new model 250; the early models need the case bored to fit the sleeve.

    Q2: I assume this sleeve is not plated, just honed and the piston and rings is meant for such cylinders. Is this a custom made piston or one that exists in the market for other purpose? I know those things run for ever once done right but couldn't help but wonder. I'd assume for such compression rate and valve angles to match it must be custom.

    A2: Sleeve is not plated.
    The sleeve is bored then honed to fit the new piston.
    The piston is my own design; the valve clearance cut is the same as
    the 250 & 300 pistons.

    Q3: Obviously the head is not modified, unless I haven't read all the info here that carefully. Am I correct to assume that area of the piston on the outer top part is meant for the stock 250 head (have the valve sizes changed through the 15 years in production?), would a 300 head work a well with your kit?

    A3: The head is the same on the 250 & 300.
    The piston clears the head just like it does on the 300.

    Q4: I remember back from the 250/300 stock parts conersions there was variability in the resulting compression from the swap. Some would use thicker gaskets and some would grind an angled squish band around the head, some would do both to avoid going to high numbers. Have you measured any variability in compression on those 3 prototype engines?

    A4: I have built 52 351 kits the compression is 12.5:1 no problem.
    There will be some variation in compression because of the machining of the head & casting of the combustion chamber.

    Q5: Is there a core charge for 250 cylinders? I have a couple good ones from early 250s that I do not see of ever using, a good crank/rod 2 CVs and few other bits and pieces if anyone is interested.

    A5: I am charging $150.00 core charge, returnable upon receiving your
    cylinder.

    PS On the aftermarket oversized tanks that existed for the off road only model 250/300 there may be an issue with wiring that goes through under the tank by the front part of the frame as the loom for the street legal bikes is too thick. An other pain in the neck I dealt with since my bike was a Jap version street legal version of the non-kick start enduro bike. There had been so many versions of this bike around the world that even the most fanatic fans get confused. Between USD/conventional forks, electric or kickstart 250s, the D-Tracker, it must have been one of the most spread out models Kawa ever produced. When I saw the recent street legal version coming out my first reaction was "...ohhh no..... NOT Again! This thing will never die!"
  3. Bake

    Bake adventurer

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    100 kits delivered!
  4. rickypanecatyl

    rickypanecatyl SE Asia adventure tours

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    Anyone with one of these kits and some serious miles want to comment on the reliability of it? Thanks
  5. JacksonRiding7

    JacksonRiding7 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Oddometer:
    10
    So I totally want to do a 351 kit . . . eventually. I just picked up and 07 KLX 250 and it had less than 700 miles on it when I bought it. I dont feel right swapping the piston on a motor that's not even broke in yet, and I figure it's just as well to get really cozy on the bike before I get wheelie popping power added to it. However, I do want to do some mods before getting the 351, including upgrading to a muffler combination that is good for when I get the 351 (waste not, want not, right?). So reading through this thread, it sounded like one of the original testors LOST power by adding a larger header. I dont plan (at the moment) on changing my carb, just doing the free mods to it. So is it going to make more power with the 351 with

    1. A aftermarket slip on with stock header?
    2. With just stock pipe all around period?
    3. With a header and slip on but jetting or some particular carb mod to suit?

    As I recall the guy who lost power with the header had pretty much all the free mods I know of, but did have a slip on.. or maybe just cut out the stock muffler?
  6. JacksonRiding7

    JacksonRiding7 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
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    I'm also intrigued by these performance package ideas too! Must know more!
  7. Godzpwr

    Godzpwr n00b

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    Location:
    Hoover, Al
    Anybody nearby want to loan us an '09 for a couple of weeks??
    :lol3
    I'll work with anybody within 500 miles of Wichita, Kansas, and Bill has said a discount on parts could be made on the deal.[/quote]


    I have a 2009 KLX250 that needs some help... Still need a loaner??? Im a little farther than the 500 miles though... Birmingham, Alabama is 815 miles away. We were closer last week as my wife rode this bike to and from Colorado from Birmingham :)
  8. She_Braaps

    She_Braaps Flying Merkel

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    how much for the 351 kit...? can you really tell a difference?
  9. Rob.G

    Rob.G Mostly Harmless

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    Fulltiming in an RV! Currently Arizona
    I'm looking into maybe picking up a leftover 2009 KLX250S. What's the cost on the 351 kit? That'd be a great mod!! :)

    Rob
  10. E-Nigma

    E-Nigma Just Passing Through

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Oddometer:
    17
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    Durham, NC
    I will start by saying that I think Bill makes a quality product. I have yet to hear of a failure, and I believe my newly installed kit is #180 in his production run. However, the reason I am posting is because after I placed an order with him for a Mikuni carb and his 351 kit, he failed in multiple aspects from a customer service perspective. I think it will be easiest if I list a chronological timeline of events. Sorry it is so long, but it became quite a process to fulfill my order.

    11/13/10, Saturday:
    Before ordering, I emailed Bill, asking him several questions about his 351 kit, as well as options for setting up his Mikuni carb. He replied quickly the same day, answered my questions and said that he had one kit in stock ready to ship.

    11/15/10, Monday:
    I emailed Bill, to get confirmation on total price. Again, he replied quickly the same day;
    $527.45 351cc kit
    $175.00 Refundable core deposit
    $392.45 Mikuni TM33-8012 pumper carb, milled out to 34mm
    $32.85 3 percent paypal fees
    $1127.75 Total

    I was surprised to hear that he expected me to add in the additional 3 percent paypal transaction fees, which is not listed on the website. Why not just integrate this amount by increasing the price of the products by 3 percent?

    11/16/10, Tuesday:
    I sent an email to Bill, informing him that I had just sent a paypal payment to him for $1127.45

    11/18/10, Thursday, 5:59am
    I sent Bill an email to confirm he had received my paypal funds, and to request a tracking number.

    11/19/10, Friday, 1pm
    I phoned Bill, asking if he had received the above email regarding receipt of money, and confirm shipment. He stated that he was currently working on fulfilling 6 other orders. He did not seem to know who I was by name, no did he ask me any questions to determine this. He merely said he was planning on getting some of these orders out the same day, and the rest of them by the following Monday, 11/22/10.

    So, I was a little concerned at this point. After all, he had $1,127 of my money, did not seem to know who I was, could not be bothered to find out, and could not tell me precisely when he would ship my purchase. I thought to myself, “This guy is in over his head. He’s got lot’s of orders to fulfill, but he is having a hard time doing it in a timely fashion”. I am OK with this, but at least slow down enough (i.e. customer service) to make me feel like I matter if you have my money already.

    11/19/10, Friday, 10:36pm
    Bill sent me an email, stating that he had received my money, and that the kit would be shipped the following Monday, 11/22/10.

    11/27/10, Saturday, 12:17pm
    At this point it was 7+ days since my last correspondence with Bill, which is when he had stated he would ship by Monday, 11/22/10. Even with it being Thanksgiving holiday week, 4 USPS business days had elapsed, with transit from him in Wichita, KS and me in Durham, NC. So, I emailed him, asking if he had been able to ship by Monday, 11/22/10, as he stated on 11/19/10.

    11/29/10, Monday, 3:50pm
    Bill replied by email to the above, stating;
    “I messed up. I thought your order went out Monday. 11/22/10. I found your paperwork on the outgoing table. I shipped out your order this morning (11/29/10). I also sent you a front stainless steel braided brake line. Hopefully this will help make up for the delay in shipping. The reason I didn’t answer you back as soon as you emailed me we were out of town for a few days.”

    11/29/10, Monday, 4:43pm:
    I replied by email stating;
    “I appreciate your honesty about making a mistake. It sounded like you were fairly busy fulfilling orders when I talked with you on the phone on Friday, November 19. I also appreciate the gesture of offering a front brake line as compensation. Unfortunately, I am very happy with the stock brake setup, so I don’t really have a need for a stainless line. I would like to return this to you in the same package that I will ship my cylinder core to you. Considering this, and considering the timeline of events (package not shipped until 13 days after payment, and 7 days after stated shipped previously), I would like to propose a Paypal compensation in addition to the $175 core deposit reimbursement when you receive it. Perhaps $100 for the extra delay? That works out to 9 percent of the paid amount of the new kit and Mikuni carb, and isn’t significantly more than the listed price of the $64 brake line. I appreciate your consideration, and I look forward to your response.”

    11/29/10, Monday, 9:28pm:
    Bill’s response;
    “I can give you back the price of the brake line $64.00 + the $175.00 for the core. Sorry for the problem.”

    12/3/10, Friday, 6:33am:
    After receiving and installing the kit, I sent Bill this email message;
    “I received your kit on Wednesday, so it got here really quickly after you shipped it Monday. I had the kit installed and turned the key that evening. It runs great and really changes the bike's character. I did have some minor issues fitting the Mikuni; On my '09, I moved some of my added accessory wiring to the left of the carb as suggested, but there is no easy way to bring the main wiring bundle to the left of the carb, because getting it to clear the rear motor mount would require removing the valve head again. I suppose it might be possible to unplug one end of the wiring bundle and re-route, but that would be a lot of work. I decided to zip-tie the wiring tightly against the right frame; it just clears the throttle cable assembly. I also had to grind down a bit of the top stop on the throttle pulley as well as some of the depth of the cable guide slot on the pulley to get it to clear the frame's cross brace as the pulley rotates. As I said earlier, I am very pleased with the results. I do think I need to move up a size on the pilot jet, as getting the bike to idle without dying requires no more than one-half turn out on the fuel mixture screw. Even then, I have to adjust the throttle cable adjuster to idle at 1800-2000 rpm to keep the engine running reliably. The ziploc bag containing the old fuel mixture screw had "M=140" and "P=40", so I assume these are my Mikuni's main and pilot jet sizes? If so, can you supply me with the next larger size pilot jet greater than #40, or at least a part number and a source online to order? I will be shipping my cylinder core back today, along with the stainless brake line you included. I would like to remain a good customer. In light of that, I will just need compensation for the cylinder core when you receive it. I no longer wish compensation (i.e. the value of the stainless brake line) for the delay in shipping. I appreciate how quickly I received the order after the mistake was realized. I just ask that you ship me the larger pilot jet greater than the current #40 as mentioned above. Let me know if this works. Thanks.”

    12/3/10, Friday, 9:03am:
    Bill’s email reply;
    “I will send you a larger pilot jet #42.5”

    I did find the above response interesting. Bill made no observation of my gesture of goodwill regarding my declining $64 compensation in exchange for him shipping me an $8 jet. He also did not make any comment about my difficulties installing the Mikuni carb. At this point I think Bill was really sick of me pestering him for some customer service.
     
    12/10/10, Friday, 4:53pm:
    After shipping the core and stainless brake line back, I emailed Bill;
    “It looks like you received my cylinder core on Wednesday, 12/8/10, UPS tracking #1Z0E625V039984****. Have you had a chance to reimburse my paypal account for $175 and ship out the #42.5 pilot jet yet as agreed?”
     
    12/11/10, Saturday, 11:39am:
    Bill email in response to the above;
    “Got your core. I thought I had the 42.5 pilot jets in stock I had to order them they came in yesterday evening. I will go pick them up today & send the core money & jet at the same time Monday noon.”

    After Bill’s response above, I’m amazed yet again by his apparent lack of customer service skills. After forgetting to ship my items for a week, he tells me he will delay my $175 core reimbursement for 2 days for no apparent reason. He also says he has not yet shipped the 42.5 pilot jet that we talked about on Friday, 12/3/10 (8 days earlier). Why did he not double-check whether he had the 42.5 pilot jet in stock 8 days earlier, especially after dropping the ball with my order previous to that? I would have been OK with him telling me he did not have the pilot jet in stock if he had done so 8 days earlier on 12/3/10. I just expected him to be more proactive and to be more informed at this point in our weird relationship.

    12/11/10, Saturday, 1:13pm:
    I emailed this response;
    “Bill, forget about the pilot jet. Please reimburse me for the $175 core via paypal today.”

    12/11/10, Saturday, 1:25pm
    I have not receive any other email correspondence from Bill, but I received my core refund of $175 via paypal 12 minutes after my above email.

    For all prospective future customers, I hope that my experience was an anomaly. I also assume that Bill has probably given great customer service and fulfilled many previous customers’ orders without issue. Mine was not one of them.
  11. rickypanecatyl

    rickypanecatyl SE Asia adventure tours

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    Enigma –
    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p> </o:p>
    I think you’re blowing things out of proportion… borderline whining! J
    <o:p> </o:p>
    Consider the prices of other big bore kits AND how much they change the bike. Bills products are amazing! For under $1,600 you can reliably double the HP of the bike? What other big bore kit does that?
    <o:p> </o:p>
    I’m defending Bill for 2 reasons:<o:p></o:p>
    First off he didn’t do anything wrong.
    Secondly I’m betting he doesn’t NEED the money from these kits. He’s a brillant retired mechanical engineer who likes riding motorcycles with his wife, building engines, working on a log cabin. He probably just enjoys sharing what he’s made with other KLX owners. I think you are whinning. My fear he will think you are whinning, others will whine and he’ll just say screw this and stop doing the kits. And then maybe some big company with great customer service, a hot secretary with a sexy phone voice will fill the void offering a kit ½ as good for 50% more money. Maybe no one will fill the void.
    <o:p> </o:p>
    You can have high expectations at Starbucks as they are probably charging you 15X as much as their product costs them. I’m betting Bill doesn’t have enough profit in his kit to cover your steel braided brake line. His margins are tight enough that the 3% pay pal fee is huge!
    <o:p> </o:p>
    I’m sorry I called you a whinner… that wasn’t nice. But I am asking you to take a step back and consider what you are getting for your money compared to what else is out there. Be grateful KLX owners have someone like Bill sharing this really cool stuff with us. Appreciate that a retired guy who loves riding motorcycles is taking the time he is to make these kits available to us ok?
  12. Bill & Jo Ann Blue

    Bill & Jo Ann Blue Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2005
    Oddometer:
    31
    Location:
    Wichita, Kansas
    The following is reply to Darin earlier today.

    Sorry your order didn't go as smoothly as it should have. I have been in business for just over 8 years since I retired from Cessna Aircraft; this is only the second order with a problem. And that was due to the customer providing me with an incorrect address.

    I bore over 300 cylinders, as well as 50 sleeve jobs a year, plus do custom machining on motorcycle & ATV parts so there is always a potential for mixups.

    The SS brake line was a gesture on my part to make up for the situation. When you declined the brake line & wanted $100.00, I felt my offer was a fair one to make amends for the delay. When it wasn't acceptable to you and you declined my offers, I just let the matter drop.

    As far as the larger pilot jet is concerned, I didn't have any on hand & neither did the dealer when I went to buy one. The shop called Friday evening to let me know the jets had been received and I was going to mail it, along with your core charge, Monday, 12/13. I can't send you something I don't have and that the dealer doesn't have either.

    I am sorry things didn't go well, but none of it was intentional!

    Bill

  13. E-Nigma

    E-Nigma Just Passing Through

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Oddometer:
    17
    Location:
    Durham, NC
    Points worth repeating or noting;

    $1100 is not an insignificant amount of money, at least not to me.

    At Bill&#8217;s level of production, it IS a business and not a hobby.

    Regardless of what you think, forgetting about a customer&#8217;s order for a week, and not realizing the mistake without prompting from the customer IS a big deal. Don&#8217;t forget that it still occurred AFTER I phoned him to ask when he was planning on shipping the items and he didn&#8217;t take the time to figure out who I was.

    While Bill&#8217;s gesture was nice regarding the free brake line, why would he assume I needed or wanted one? Talk to me about it before shipping it.

    I did not demand $100 compensation, I merely offered it as an alternative.

    Once Bill was informed of the mistake, it was shipped quickly, and I noted that. I also told him to forget about the $64 compensation because of this. All I asked in return was that he ship me an $8 jet.

    In my opinion, after this confusion and delay, Bill should have checked immediately whether he had this jet in stock. He agreed to ship me the jet on 12/3, and then he told me on 12/11/10 that he had needed to order the jet. That&#8217;s 8 days of time that he could have told me he did not have the jet.

    If Bill received my $175 core on 12/8/10, why would he tell me that he was going to delay reimbursing me until 12/13/10? 5 days of delay without given reason? All it takes is logging on to paypal for 2 minutes and clicking a few buttons.

    Almost every step of this transaction was difficult and delayed, and almost all of the correspondence and movement forward was prompted by me.

    It was NOT good customer service, even for a retired engineer.
  14. jdubeemer

    jdubeemer Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    Oddometer:
    74
    Location:
    Alabama
    Bill,
    Do you know what the horsepower of the stock KLX 250 is? I am interested in the 351 conversion kit and am interested to know how much increase in HP is realized. I really love my KLX250 but have been on some rides with friends on KLR 650s and on the paved portions of the ride the little engine is really working. I had a BMW F650GS which I found too cumbersome off road and have a R1200GS which will not leave the pavement. My only other choice is the KTM 450 dual sport but I don't want to go bike shopping if the KLX will do the job with the 351 upgrade. Hope someone can answer the HP question.
    Jim in Alabama
  15. frdbronco8

    frdbronco8 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2010
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    250
    Location:
    South of Seattle
    Sounds like from the corrospondance above he did a pretty good job making things right after a minor mistake.

    Again curious if there have been any issues with decreased reliability with these kits now that they have been out for a while? There an 06 for sale nearby with the 351 and mikuni carb on it already that I am eyeballing but I have had bad luck with modified bikes in the past. I would like a DRZ400s but the lighter weight, 6th gear and lower price of this klx appeals to me.
  16. Xracer250

    Xracer250 n00b

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    8
    I had a excellent transaction with Bill, he was very helpful and answered all of my newbe questions. He sent me a pumper carb and jetted for my AO, HMF pipe and air box mods. The bike runs great, started right up and very snappy even when cold. I feel it a worth while mod on a stock bike, I can only wonder how well it would pull with the 351 kit.

    I would not hesitate to do business with Bill again, very honest and helpful, thanks again Bill.

    Jim N
  17. rickypanecatyl

    rickypanecatyl SE Asia adventure tours

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    How does the electric starter work with the 351 kit? Any issues?

    I've talked about putting one in with a couple of the mechanics here who know nothing first hand of the 351 kit but both questioned whether the starter could hold up to cranking the 351 over...
  18. mel brooks

    mel brooks Dirt Chick

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    Upstate SC




    :ear
  19. GB

    GB . Administrator Super Moderator Super Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2002
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    67,933
    Mine didn't have any issues starting with the 351 kit installed.
  20. Dino1000

    Dino1000 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Oddometer:
    32
    Location:
    Virginia
    Still wish someone would post information regarding longevity of the big bore kit. Anybody got some insight? Curious is the big bore can stand the test of time.

    Thanks!