3m 4411n sealing tape tubeless conversion

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Flynn_, May 21, 2016.

  1. tominboise

    tominboise Long timer

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    That tiger rim looks like it has the safety bead on the inside for a tubeless tire? Or am I missing something?
    #21
  2. T

    T --------------

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    It does have the safety bead. The front did not.

    That's the reason I sealed the rear wheel. A trailside repair would have been a real challenge with the tubed tire-breaking the bead (not impossible, but difficult). I did a repair on the front (no safety bead) without problem. Broke the tire loose barehanded and back on the road in no time. Having a centerstand helped immensely....BTW; I don't run real low pressure(s) under most circumstances.
    #22
  3. tominboise

    tominboise Long timer

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    Thanks for posting up. I think I will convert my rear wheel to tubeless at the next tire change.
    #23
  4. JensEskildsen

    JensEskildsen Long timer

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    Im really starting to consider this. How wide is the tape you used, and how wide was the rim?
    I have 3,5x17 and 4,25x17 on my motarded xt600.
    I see the Outex kit is around 40mm for 3,5" and 50mm wide for 4,25" Just split the difference? Cant find some in the width... :/
    #24
  5. Assfault

    Assfault Exposed Member Supporter

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    Bumping this thread.
    I just purchased two rolls of this 3M 4415N tape.
    (1) 25mm X 5yds
    (1) 50mm X 5yds
    I plan on sealing the spoke nipples 1st, then applying the tape to seal air tite.
    I'll follow up with a result. Should be good to go with all this previous experience.
    Thanks for the tips and suggestions.
    #25
  6. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    after not having flats for a long time, we recently had a rash of flats. after coming home from a weekend of three flats in one day (lots of time wasted fixing things and flatting again) for only two riders, i ordered 4411 tape from amazon. it should be here this weekend, and i'll setup one of my wheels with it to test. really hoping i have similar luck to the guys in this thread. there is no way i'm paying $100/wheel for a tubeless system that isn't really tubeless, after watching several people have flats that required installing regular tubes to keep riding. eff that.
    #26
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  7. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    I've been waiting on the 3m tape forever.... But last weekend I used some silicon on the spare set of wheels to test it out.

    Stuff I found out:
    Cleaning with a wire wheel is awesome.
    You really have to let it cure completely!
    Duct tape does a good job of protecting it while mounting the tire.
    Mounting a tubeless (actually tube less, not a kit that adds a proprietary tube and calls itself tubliss!) dirt bike tire is super easy/fast.
    I had to use a strap to tighten the circumference enough to push the bead towards the rim before I could inflate it. After that, easy peas.

    My 3m tape should be here this week, and I will use it on my main wheels this weekend, then test 13psi without a rim lock. That's what I usually run.

    Anyway, a couple of pictures of the crappy caulking job I did.

    IMG_20161023_181353.jpg


    And the stuff used
    IMG_20161023_181031.jpg

    It held 65psi without issue, but 70psi blew the plug out of my rim lock hole in the rim. I'll have to make sure that hole has a solid rubber plug to prevent dirt getting in and effecting the tape.

    I'll still carry a 21" tube just in case until I trust it.
    #27
  8. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    tape arrived, honestly I'm kind of scared to get started. oh well, this weekend I'll clean them up and give it a go. i ordered just enough to cover two wheels with a little left over for error.
    20161026_173011.jpg
    #28
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  9. dirty_sanchez

    dirty_sanchez Dirty_Sanchez

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    Guys, as someone who in a previous life spent 14 years selling adhesives and sealants, I can't help but be a bit skittish on using a soft setting sealant being subjected to tremendous temperature fluctuations. What scares me more is how a relatively soft sealant will behave during tremendous, long term, and unknown G-Forces.

    I want this to work-really do, but I'd think a harder setting sealant with enough flexion so it wouldn't crack as a rim flexes would be a better fit.

    But what do I know?

    Dirty
    #29
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  10. TheOtherBart

    TheOtherBart Long timer

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    Here's a really basic questions, how can I tell if my rims are the "safety bead" design? I really like the idea of going tubeless on my 2003 F650GS.
    #30
  11. JensEskildsen

    JensEskildsen Long timer

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    Google images, write "safety bead"
    Its a lillte "lip" that keeps the tire in place.

    [​IMG]
    #31
  12. Salsa

    Salsa Long timer

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    30-120f does not seem like extreme to me !

    Don
    #32
  13. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    OK that wasnt too bad. I stripped off the old rim strip, wire wheel'd the rim until it was sparkly, then dumped a cup of alcohol on it, then finally stretched the tape on.

    Tape is a poor description, this is really an incredibly sticky gel with a backing pad. It went on very easy, and cut the excess of with a razor blade. I also wrapped it in one layer of gorilla tape to help protect it from tire changes.

    Wrapped the tire with a tie down strap, and ratcheted the strap enough to push the tire against the bead of the rim, inflated to 75psi, waited for leaks. I wasnt disappointed, it leaked steadily at the bead for a few minutes in one place. I beat on the side of the tire and the leak stopped.

    I added a teaspoon of slime, and rolled the tire around on it's side until I felt it had gotten around the bead area fairly well.

    To five you an idea of how rough my wheel is, here you go. Is very pitted from thirty years of duct tape and crap....

    IMG_20161029_153425291.jpg

    IMG_20161029_153425291.jpg IMG_20161029_154935649.jpg

    IMG_20161029_163929887.jpg


    After a quick burn out at 14psi, then sliding through the front yard, I thought it might be road safe and wheelied out there to test.

    No leaks, feels about the same. I'll definitely be carrying a tube until I trust it.

    $15 tubeless, REAL tubeless, baby
    #33
  14. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    yesterday i inflated to 75psi to test, then reduced to 20psi ( approximately) for the street ride. it was not plush , which was not a surprise at all.

    today i tested on my tagged kdx220, at 14psi. i marked both the tire and the rim with a green (ya baby!) paint pen. this was used to treat for tire/rim slippage, since I'm not using a rim lock anymore.

    i rode about 20 miles to get to the trails, 20 miles of very rocky fire roads/double track/single track, checked my pressure again and returned home the remaining 20 miles. grand total was 59.46 miles, according to the GPS track. highest speed attained 63.2mph.

    i tried to unseat the bead and spin the tire on the rim by jabbing the rear brake on pavement, smashing the sidewall against rocks, jumping sharp rocks, and generally bombing through baby head sized rocks. i though for sure i killed it on one hill climb as i abused the clutch and pivot turned in a rocky (good traction) rut on a hill climb.

    the green marks were still in place. the tire did not move at all with 14-15psi.

    i checked on returning home and the tire was warm, at about 15-16psi, which is to be expected for 40-50mph blast on the way home.

    i was very skeptical about it holding all day, and packed my tow strap, so my buddies could drag me far enough to stash the bike and return with a truck, if it were needed. i had no intention of trying to repair the broken bead on the trail, if it deflated.

    this was a fun experiment, and I'm very glad i tried it. I'm planning to run this in the future, for both wheels, and on all my bicycles.

    most importantly, there is no possibility of a pinch flat (rocks), pinch flat (tire iron), spun valve stem, high pressure tube failure (tubliss), rim lock failure (tubliss), and theoretically i could plug the tire if i every pick up a nail/thorn.

    screenshots of my recorded track, map offset to protect the innocent: Screenshot_2016-10-30-17-55-57.png
    Screenshot_2016-10-30-17-55-12.png

    thank all of you very much for suggesting this !

    I'll be carrying a yamoo thing to seat tire beads from now all also. :-)
    #34
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  15. tominboise

    tominboise Long timer

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    Question, what are you all using for a valve stem? Do you just drill the existing hole the correct size the the tubeless valve stem?
    #35
  16. bluestar

    bluestar sheep shagger

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    #36
  17. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    #37
  18. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    #38
  19. bluestar

    bluestar sheep shagger

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    I've got about 6500 miles on mine and still holding air.
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  20. oldschoolsk8ter

    oldschoolsk8ter Adventurer

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    I have been running this set up for the last 7000 miles and 2x sets of tires on my dr650 motard.

    I used the 4412n on my rims.

    No issues, no leaks and the tape has not moved when checked during tire changes.

    Everyone has a different level of comfort with trying non-standard things.
    #40
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