3m 4411n sealing tape tubeless conversion

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Flynn_, May 21, 2016.

  1. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    Thx. Transcription error.
  2. tominboise

    tominboise Long timer

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    I'm doing this on the rear of my Tiger, as soon as the K60 wears out. Do you guys seal the spokes with small stickers or anything, prior to wrapping with the 3M tape?
  3. DeepBarney

    DeepBarney International Bumbler

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    Most here are just wrapping the 3m stuff straight on or putting dabs of Marine 5200 where the spokes come through.
  4. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    No. Ideally, if there were some small Teflon disks you could cover the nipples with, but to keep them in place during application they would have to be sticky on one side. That would counter the benefit.
  5. DeepBarney

    DeepBarney International Bumbler

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    Could just put a light dab of grease to hold them in place against the spoke until the tape is wrapped over them.
  6. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    I doubt it.
    1. The adhesive is like a semi-solid and squishes out in all directions when being applied, so it would likely take the dots with it, and
    2. I'd be afraid that any grease might deteriorate the adhesive or its adhesion

    Straight application of the tape seems to work fine and is by far the simplest approach.
    jjustj likes this.
  7. DeepBarney

    DeepBarney International Bumbler

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    1 is a valid point, you might cause them to move away during application of the tape. But unless you used too much (it really only takes a small dab of heavy grease to hold it) the grease would never come into contact with the adhesive.
  8. bcliff

    bcliff Been here awhile

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    I used the stickers when I did the rear of my Tiger 2 years ago although I'm not convinced the stickers are necessary. No issues after many thousands of miles. Great mod.
  9. MotoPolo

    MotoPolo So many places, so little time Supporter

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    OHgood - that is disappointing. would you please share more info. What tire rim combination were you running, what pressures, what environment (sand, mud, tree roots etc).

    I'd like to think I could run this setup on a KTM 690R. Do you think doing this and carrying tubes as a backup is an option? E.G. if you flat and the bead won't seat jut insert a tube?

    Love to hear more about your experience.

    thanks
  10. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    I carry one 21" tube for just such an emergency. I'll used it in either wheel to get back to civilization.
  11. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    I was using two different 18" wheels. It held fine for a little while, but the liner I ran it the more dirt got in and interrupted the bead seal. Lots out off-road riding, on a dirt bike..

    The tape was fine
  12. MotoPolo

    MotoPolo So many places, so little time Supporter

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    Thanks MotoPSychoman - sounds like you might be riding in the dirt. I'm looking to do long distance trips, mostly dirt (read Mexico to Canada) but will have to get on the tarmac for hours at a time. I like the idea of low unsprung weight, I like the idea of easy to change tire (no tube), I like quick plug repair of flat on the road. What do you think is this a good solution for me?

    thanks
  13. MotoPolo

    MotoPolo So many places, so little time Supporter

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    For those using this setup in the dirt what tires are you using?

    thanks
  14. MotoPolo

    MotoPolo So many places, so little time Supporter

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    Ohgood - If I understand you correctly the failure mode was too low a tire pressure that allowed dirt into the seal area - correct? If so do you know what the minimum pressure should be to prevent that failure mode?

    thanks
  15. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    I started with 40psi to fully seat the bead, then dropped to 14psi for traction off road. The side to side motion of rocks and roots is my guess as to how dirt worked it's way into the bead. I did try 8psi , but I could move the bead enough by hand to delete the tire , so that was no good.

    I don't think it leaked at all until the first worked it's way in, so it's totally possible that high (street) pressure would be fine, but I would lose all the lie pressure benefits.

    My guess would be that 18-20psi would be safe.
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  16. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    I'm actually probably a 80/20 kind of guy. Mostly pavement and I travel pretty heavy. Been trying combinations of 50/50 tires for a while now. I like the Mitas E-07 Dakars, but they don't have a tubeless 21" yet.

    Here's a rundown of what I've tried so far over 34,000+ miles: (2 sets of wheels, 1 set tubeless)

    Metzeler Tourance EXP (OEM) front and rear. Probably the worst tires on or off-road I've ridden in decades. No feel. Replaced both at <3k miles.

    K60 Scouts, front and rear. Fine on-road, 21" front wanders too much off road. Rear squared-off faster than I'd like. People running the 19" front don't complain of it wandering. Got 10k on the front, 6k on the rear.

    TKC80 front, K60 rear. Worse on-road, better off-road. TKC didn't last as long as the K60 rear. Got 4k on the front.

    TKC80 front, E-07 Dakar rear. About the same as the TKC/K60 in handling. E-07 looks like it will last >10k.

    Mitas E-07 Dakar front (tube), K60 rear. E-07 better off-road than K60 but not a great amount. E-07 Front has 11k and still running.

    E-07 Dakars front (tube-type) and rear (tubeless). Good on the street, fair off-road (not sand or mud). Pair could go >10k.

    Currently running a MotoZ Tractionator Adventure front and E-07 rear (both tubeless). I've had only very limited off-road on this. The MotoZ off-road seems better than the TKC. On-road it really doesn't like rain grooves. Barely scuffed in at 2k miles.

    If Mitas starts shipping the 21" tubeless this month, I'm running E-07 Dakars to Tuktoyatuk this summer. Otherwise it'll be MotoZ/E-07.
    JBird, ohgood and MotoPolo like this.
  17. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    yes! it should help if your wheels have a safety bead!
  18. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    Safety bead isn't really to keep air in the tire. It is there to try and keep the tire on the rim when it goes flat.
    That said, it should be easier to try and reinflate a tire that is still sitting properly on the rim.
  19. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    yup, thats why I recommended it
  20. JBird

    JBird Retriever

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    Getting ready to go this route on a 690. Going to use the Napa valve stem. Does anyone know what width 4412 I should purchase - I am assuming 2"?? Or do I get different widths for front and rear? I'd like to get the tape here before I take everything apart.

    I want to do 2 wraps of the wheel. Is there a top on the tape I have to peel away before the 2nd wrap?

    I like the rubber ball technique to press the tape down into the drop center. How tight do I pull the tape as I do this?

    Do I let the 3M tape dry or set before I add a cover tape? What is the best cover tape? I have seen Gorilla tape and Duct tape mentioned. Should the cover tape be pulled real tight?

    Thanks for the help on this. I am planning on running Mitas E07 Dakar rear and a Motoz Tractionator front.