3m 4411n sealing tape tubeless conversion

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by Flynn_, May 21, 2016.

  1. bcliff

    bcliff Been here awhile

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    2 inch works great. Check that your front rim has a safety bead before converting.
    You don't need to pull the tape and there is no top to peel off. In my opinion, 2nd layer is totally unnecessary.
    Don't overthink it...its an easy and obvious job.
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  2. JBird

    JBird Retriever

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    Thanks for the reply! Not going to do this for a few weeks - still have some miles left on my tires - I'll report back after I do this.

    thanks!
  3. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    I used 1" on the front WM2 rim (1.85" width rim) and had to trim 2" tape down to about 1.5" for the rear WM5 rim (3.0" width rim) to keep the tape in the valley. It all depends on the width and profile of the individual rim.

    Make sure you wire brush the taping area clean of all rust, old rubber, loose junk, etc. and clean the whole thing with isopropyl alcohol before you start.
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  4. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    @FenceJumper09 just did this on his 690.... don't know if he got any pictures. it's pretty simple, drop the tape on the rim and go
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  5. PaulTim2000

    PaulTim2000 Been here awhile

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    Just did mine on the rear of the Guzzi Stelvio. Used 2" tape, two layers. There is a transparent cover tape, on top of the actual tape, which needs to be removed before adding the second layer, it's there to stop the tape sticking together on the reel so must be removed so the second layer will stick to the first, top of tape is not sticky so I removed it from both layers and don't believe anything will stick to it or it will be damaged during tyre changes. I put the end of the tape at the valve fitting so the nut on the stem would hold the end of the tape down but I don't believe it will come unstuck after looking (and feeling) the glue. Degreased the rim with Trich, but I guess IPA/Alcohol would work just as well, and used the round end of a large screwdriver to make sure the tape was fully adhered. Overall the job took about 60 min including two trips to my local tyre fitter to get the tyre removed and then refitted.
    Only done about 500 miles on it but no air loss so far (used to loose about 5psi a week).
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  6. FenceJumper09

    FenceJumper09 Been here awhile

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    I just had to re-tape my 690 rear wheel. The rims were siliconed and taped when I bought them. All I did was remove the existing 3m tape and clean the wheel really well. The existing silicone on the nipples looked good so I just laid a single layer of the the 3M tape on (2" width) overlapping the end by 6 to 8 inches not pulling it tight but ensuring no air bubbles as you go. The overlap will make balancing a little tricky but it can be done. I did not wait for the tape to cure nor did I add a cover tape. The tape I used had a plastic top that I peeled away as I pressed it in place. This was on my Sumo setup and haven't had any air leakage issues yet.

    I am not sure I would try this with dual sport tires that are meant to be tubed but I also havent read this whole thread and reports on how they work.

    PS the Tractionator HT is my favorite dual sport tire for my 690! Enjoy!
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  7. Dino de Laurentiis

    Dino de Laurentiis Working on it

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    Like others have said the 2”/50 mm works well. No need to cure/ set the tape, it’s like an ordinary tape only thick and somewhat mouldable. Only one side is sticky. I put a layer of aluminium tape on top of the 3M-tape. Mostly to avoid disturbing the edges of the 3M-tapes when changing tires and risk a leak. Probably not necessary but feels more secure this way.

    B334D123-7EFA-4E75-BC71-3E0D9B8D9BC8.jpeg

    1917D59C-1D2F-48A3-BD1F-D01F52E7517E.jpeg
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  8. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    you didn't have enough bling already ???


    looks great!
  9. JBird

    JBird Retriever

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    Thanks for all the direction - I want this to work. Ordered all my supplies - now I have to go wear down the tires and I'll be ready.

    Nice looking wheels!!!
  10. ErikDK

    ErikDK Been here awhile

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    I don't know why some are so worried about converting rims without a safety hump to tubeless.

    A punctured tube won't keep the tire from getting unsettled any more than a tubeless tire with zero pressure.

    How much pressure is the tube exerting against the tire? Answer: Exactly the inflated pressure. The friction between rim and tube is negligible.

    To quote the Italian company Bartubeless http://www.bartubeless.it/en/bartubeless/rim-hump
    "
    Rim with hump
    The hump is a protuberance within the channel that keeps the tyre bead in place even when the pressure is zero.

    The hump keeps the tyre in the optimum position even in case of absolute lack of pressure.

    Without hump, in the case of zero pressure, the tyre slides on the edge of the rim and it slips inside channel causing a deflating of the tyre with the consequence of loss of vehicle control.

    -TUBE TYPE (with air chamber) in case of a puncture the pressure loss is immediate and it is difficult to have the time to notice what is going on, so in the absence of hump the situation becomes critical.

    -TUBELESS in case of a puncture the tyre deflates slowly, giving to the driver the opportunity to stop in time, but in the absence of hump, if for any reason you arrive at a pressure too low, you risk the "bead breaking" and the loss of control vehicle.

    In the absence of hump:

    -TUBE TYPE the danger is ensured.

    -TUBELESS the danger is much smaller, but is not null."
  11. darkstarmoto

    darkstarmoto Am I evil? Yes I am

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    Just wanted to give thanks to all the great info in this thread. Got my new wheels converted over to tubeless and the tape and method of application worked perfectly. Holding air just fine and even gave them the dunk test and not so much as a hint of any air escaping the rims from around the spokes or otherwise.

    Now...from the valve stem was another story but I got that fixed up, stupid Amazon purchase. Stay away from using Strada 7 CNC 83° stems...look great but don't hold air for crap and I was too lazy to break the wheel down again to remove them so I made them work by improving the seal on the stem itself til it held air. PITA
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  12. froger

    froger Been here awhile

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    Looks like I'm late to the party again. Where do you get this stuff? Do auto parts stores have it? Why do you need it? Is it a heat thing?

    Sorry, but inquiring minds want to know. Been planning to go tubeless somehow every since getting the milk crate. Tubes hate me.

    After reading this, and thinking about it, I'm switching to plan B. Which is, seal and tape the rim, run a tube with a threaded valve stem, and top it off with the nut and washer from a tubeless set up.

    This has three things going for it. If I pick up a nail, it should act tubeless. The airs not going out the spoke holes, nor should it escape the valve stem. I guess the jury's still out on how good the valve stem will work, but it should at least slow the air down. Another plus is if you bent a rim and managed to not pinch the tube, you'd still be in business. Tubeless, you'd be toast. Last but not least, a tube lets you reseat the bead if it ever does come off. This is what changed my mind. Now I'm a lousy tire man, but I couldn't get my new tire to seat tubeless with a big tie down strap and a hundred pounds of air on the compressor. How would I ever seat a rim in the field if I cant do it at home?

    In theory I'm adding weight and heat, but I don't see that it matters. These tires don't produce that much heat. I've had bigger bikes who's tires ran a lot hotter.
  13. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    I order all my tape online. Many online sources available.
    I haven't seen it in any stores, but I don't hang out at many places that specialize in adhesives.
    No heat involved, but I believe 3M suggests working with the tape above 55F.

    Why would you tape the rim and then run a tube? Seems like the worst of both worlds. How are you going to fill the tube if the tire is sealed to the rim. The air between would have to go somewhere. You know about the weight and heat issues. Plus, in all likelyhood, whatever punctures the tire also punctures to the tube, so you probably have twice the work to do.

    Seating the bead requires large VOLUME of air, not necessarily HIGH PRESSURE of air. Did you remove the valve score and have a free-flowing chuck when you tried to seat the tire? I've never needed to use a strap. A small Harbor Freight tire inflator can't flow enough air to seat a really stubborn tire. But once it has been seated, for me that tire seems to re-seal much easier. Then there is always the reliable ether and a match method (not recommended).
    froger likes this.
  14. froger

    froger Been here awhile

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    Thank you kindly for the reply MP.

    The plan is screwy alright, but I'm looking at damage control as well as picking up nails and screws. Which is dumb, since a dirt road adventurer like myself is far more likely to eat a nail than bend a rim.

    Still, if I'm running tubeless and hit something hard, I got no air in a fraction of a second. With a tube I might get lucky. If it don't pinch I can limp home. If it does, I should still be able get stopped. Had a massive tube failure once. Lost all my air and crashed on the spot. It's nothing I want to repeat.

    If I get a nail with a tube, yeah I got a problem. Hopefully though, it will hold long enough that I can chose the time and place where it gets fixed. That's the goal, not to get stranded in the middle a nowhere. Extra work at home is ok.

    I hadn't thought about trapping air, but if you filled the tire without the nut and washer on, any air between tire and tube should be able to get out the valve stem hole. Then with the hardware in place the air will hopefully stay where it belongs even if the tube get a nail.
  15. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    I don't/haven't run tire pressures below about 20psi to try and protect the rims. I know that I'd get better traction the lower I go, but that's the trade-off I've chosen.

    Without a proper valve stem seal against the rim, not sure you'll be able to inflate the tire as tubeless. The nuts on the tube valve weren't designed to be air tight.

    What size rims do you have? Could you run TUbliss?
  16. froger

    froger Been here awhile

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    No luck with the tubeless, the rears a 17.

    I got lots of compressor and the stem was out, so my chuck must be the problem. It's got a tubeless stem on it at the moment. Think I'll run it tubeless and call it good. If I can get the stupid bead seated anyway. Thanks again MC.
  17. Motopsychoman

    Motopsychoman Not a total poseur Supporter

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    I bought a $3.49 brass chuck from Harbor Freight, ripped out the pin and drilled the restricting hole out to about 5/16". I also run 3/8" hose AND fittings everywhere. Bought a cheap little ball valve so I can shut it off.
    I also use one of these little gems that I picked up, well used, on Craigslist for $70
    [​IMG]
    3HP, 4 gal. Wow, does it move air!
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  18. minkyhead

    minkyhead Long timer

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    ive been converting wheels using the 3m tape method and so far have had really good results

    the basic fixing is as described ..ive also been using different sealants

    the original e09 in the film is still sound and has required zero top ups in around a1000 miles ..the slime sealant sealed the puncture and it remains sealed

    i had trounble getting the 21inch mitas 644s to seal with slime ..but the stans liquid sealed them instantly ...to get the stans liquid to to seal you will need a 1.5hp comressor and remove the valve stem ..spin the wheel before inflating and the sealant does exactly that it blows straight to the weak spots and seals well ....i got the idea of the stans sealent from tubless conversions on me mountain bikes ..it seemed the slime was a bit too thick to reach where the very thin stans stuff was able to go but it is up to the job of sealing puntcures

    in short ive had no bead issues on the rears but the tube type 644s fronts were losing around 1 psi a day just tiny mico bubbles ... sealed with stans liquid and not moved since

    so the first two tyres have been fine and done a lot of off roading a some motorway and generel use around 1000 miles now .. ive since done the same on me other bike and mounted a unicross full knbbly which sealed no problem on the rear so ive got 5 wheels now running tubeless and all are doing what they should

    i think the use of selants has a three fold advatage ...obviusly it could prevent a deflation through puncture ,,it can help front tyres to seal propely ,,,it also gives you a easy visual check for leaks around the spokes valve stems and beads for any early waring of failure

    i m getting a system going now ...so i tape the rims and install the valves ....mount the tyre and inflate to 60psi and leave for 24hours ..the tape then really gets pushed flat and cures from milky white to tranclucent ...it s then i install the sealants

    so thanks to all that posted up i found it by googling ..this site chris scotts site too and believe it or not quite a few good reviews on amaozan

    been happy with how its gone ..bike ships to albania soon and ive decided that it will go tubless for the trip

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  19. david61

    david61 Queue, a word with 4 silent letters....

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    I too took the plunge and carried this out on my Tenere 660 a while back.

    Preparation is the key as always, I took to the rim with a very light filing of the spoke nipples, just to take the very slight roughness off some of them. My rims are in good nick anyway, a vigorous wire brushing as there seemed to be a very slight layer of lacquer? on the rim, followed by a multiple wipe downs with isopropyl alcohol, bought from chemist/pharmacy. One layer of 4412 super carefully applied and smoothed as I went, then let it sit for a day before throwing tyres back on. D606 rear and Pirelli MT21 front. Used a light ratchet strap for the rear to push tyre out [ now kept on bike, important! ]. Bought right angle valve fittings for each rim, slight hole enlarge. Be careful not to twist the tape tightening the stem!

    Inflate to 36 PSI, ride 100k's of road to airport where bike was parked for 2 weeks while I'm at work, lost NO AIR, then about 750 k's of high-ish speed dirt road and easy single track at 20 psi. Again all good. Will carry "lightweight, ie standard tubes" as spares possibly.

    I'm sold........
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  20. fritzthecat

    fritzthecat Been here awhile

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    I did this procedure on my F650 Dakar about a year ago.
    Wire brush and alcohol cleaned the rims. Neither of which has the safety bead.
    Aligned/trued the rims before starting. K60 scout tires.
    Goop/EF6000 over the spoke nipples. One layer of the 3m-4411n tape. Covered with one layer of strapping tape with the ends glued.
    Rear tire went on with no problem and seated quickly. Added 1.5 tubes of Ride-On sealant.
    Haven't needed to put air in the rear tire since last year. Still the same 44 Psi at the same temp.
    Now the 21in front isn't so easy. There is no way to get the tire seated without a big ass aircompressor blowing lots of air. So I removed the valve stem and trimmed the tape around the hole. Installed a tube with Goop around the valve stem inside and out and Ride-On sealant inside. So even if the tube gets punctured, the air would leak very slowly out of the tire. No problem after that. Tire was down about 2 Psi since last year.
    Looking at the rims/tires, I have no qualms about the rear tire conversion but definitly feel better with a tube in the front.

    Fritz
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