690R carburetor conversion mod.

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Visigothic, Feb 27, 2011.

  1. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    I am building my own harnesses and looking at my ignition options. There is the RR option and the ignitech others mentioned in this thread.
    #61
  2. beba

    beba Adventurer

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    I have bad news for everybody that want use Ignitech ignition.
    Three years ago I rebuild my 690 to carburetor. Next three years I had a lot of problems with ignition. Bike cannot start hot, suddenly stop, lost power etc. I change three pieces of ignition, but problems still continue.
    One time I must left my bike in dunes in night on Western Sahara on rally, second time I cannot start to special stage etc., etc.
    Ignitech has problem with quality a problem with communication with customers. They not pickup phone, they not answer to emails.
    I cannot recommend everybody to use Ignitech ignition.
    #62
  3. Assfault

    Assfault Exposed Member Supporter

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    Beba,
    So what ignition did you switch to now?
    I bought one of these last year, and was going to convert as you did to a simpler carb setup.
    This is not good news if mine will have similar problems.
    Mine is still new unused, perhaps if contact can be made a fix might be available. Please let me know if you contact them.
    #63
  4. Fabnut

    Fabnut Been here awhile

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    Yeah im also very curious about this carb conversion idea & in particular the ignition quandary. Am i right in assuming that to complete the conversion all thats needed is :

    1. the FCR Carb
    2. the RR head mounting rubber
    3. new CDI ignition
    4. wiring mods to accept FCR carb & new CDI

    or is it a bit more complex than that ?

    do tell :ear
    #64
  5. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    thats about it. I believe the Rally Replica CDI will work. I am pretty sure I cross referenced the part numbers on the stator and coil and they were the same between the E/R and RR bikes. You only need the mounting rubber if you are running the airbox.

    Wiring mods will likely be the biggest part of the process.
    #65
  6. Fabnut

    Fabnut Been here awhile

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    Alright all you 690 FI loathing mofo's & I bet theres plenty of ya's to, heres the lowdown on the FCR Carb conversion after finally nailing it. Been thinking of converting to a carb for ages & spurred on by the fact that I already had a 41mm FCR that came off an 04 CRF 450 I did a Dr.Frankenstien number on & shoehorned a CR500 motor into.... but thats another story.

    Got it all fitted up & loosely wired, a few cranks to get her juiced up & away she went no problems. Dont worry, no one was more surprised than me to hear it light up let me tell ya. Anyway, after that, it fired up super easy every time, & idled like a frigin charm, smoother than the FI anyway. Of course I have to say that dont I....but it does, you can trust me :wink:..... anyway, went for a short blat & all seemed hunky dory, but Ill have to get it out to stretch its legs on a decent ride before I start spruking I can fart with confidence :clap.

    So anyway, heres the hard won knowledge & a brief run down if anyones interested.
    There's no need to buy the RR wiring loom, its easier, I think, just to utilise the charging & lighting circuits of the existing 690 loom & with a few small mods you can easily power the new ECU & bypass the FI sensor circuit making it redundant. The hardest part for me was wiring up the new ECU 16 pin plug which was as fiddly as fuck, but if your needle point soldering skills & dexterity are sound, hunker down in the shed with a few sherbets for the afternoon & zone out, the rest is a piece of piss.

    OEM Parts required:

    RR Flywheel Rotor : 7623 900 5000
    RR ECU: 76239031000
    RR ECU 16 pin plug: 000.70.000.OBX
    RR Coil: 5903.900.6000
    RR cylinder head Boot: 750 36 045 000
    Clamps: 5100 602 7000
    7800 602 7000
    RR Fuel Pump mounting plate: 7620.701.3011
    RR Intake Vacuum Connection: 5833 60 20 090

    Non essential OEM parts.
    I used Deutsch waterproof plugs for the pulse generator & TPS. You could also use a Mikuni DF52 - 136 fuel pump, cos Its exactly the same unit & flow rate but a quarter of the price, you could even get way without the mounting plate & rig up your own mounting option, but anyway, below is the OEM part numbers just the same

    TPS 3 pin plug: 000.70.000.OAR
    Pulse generator 2 pin plug: 000.70.000.OAT
    RR Mikuni Vacuum Pump: 5851 208 7000 (DF52-601-D1) DF52-136


    The air filter is a K & N RD-0510 with internal radius, like a velocity stack

    690 RR stock jetting for Keihin 41mm FCRMX (with a TPS !!!!!)

    Main - 168
    Idle - 42
    Starter - 85
    Idle Air - 100
    Needle NCY - R (or ‘T’)
    5 clips from top

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


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    #66
    r'elise me likes this.
  7. Fabnut

    Fabnut Been here awhile

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    the 3 relays under the seat. Remove the Aux start relay, cos normally it would rely on the FI ECU as apart of its circuit to activate, since its removed the relay wont operate, so it has to be bypassed


    [​IMG]


    Bypassed with a simple loop

    [​IMG]
    #67
    outbacktm likes this.
  8. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    Great overview. I currently have a carb sitting in a box, one bike with the stock efi and a second with a full Micro squirt setup.
    #68
  9. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    it would be helpful to see a picture of the rally replica flywheel next to the stock 690 flywheel to see what the difference is. I know it has something to do with the ignition trigger point but can only guess. Finding an actual rally replica flywheel seems to be a bit of a challenge.
    #69
  10. Fabnut

    Fabnut Been here awhile

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    Seth, I took photos of most things but not the flywheels both side by side sorry, however heres a photo of the 690R flywheel on its own. The most noticeable difference is the teeth on the 690R flywheel as they dont exist on the RR unit, its completely smooth on the outside cept for the actual trigger which is about 30mm long. I had to reset the gap for the pulse pick up as well to 0.7mm, no biggy.
    As you know, I had some dramas early on cos I didnt replace the flywheel & the bike both wouldnt start & was backfiring thru the carby. I pulled the plug & was getting a constant spark, almost like an arc from a unearthed TIG welder, for want of a better description, so obviously the FI is using a completely different triggering mechanism to carby, threw the new RR flywheel on & happy days. Ordered it from the local dealer but it was a special order form KTM in Austria, took about a month to Australia, in fact I had no problems getting any of the parts I needed from the RR, theyre all still available from KTM, at least that what they told me. Hope this helps.


    [​IMG]
    #70
  11. Seth S

    Seth S Will _____ for _____

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    Good photo...very helpful...figured it had to do with an ignition trigger.
    #71
  12. Visigothic

    Visigothic Been here awhile

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    Fantastic RB ! Good job! What's the cost of doing this when it's all done........about+- ?


    " They did it, they finally really did it! You blew FI up! NOW I can keep the hot chic and ditch this damn horse for a 690 with a carb" ................:evil
    [​IMG]




    Just trolling along:lol3
    #72
  13. Fabnut

    Fabnut Been here awhile

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    bout a grand Visi, give or take a few bob....depends how well you get a long with your dealer I suppose, but thats just for the parts, I already had the carby remember. You might jag some bits off ebay if your lucky tho, I did.
    #73
  14. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    Sorry but I can't understand why one cannot just replace the injection body with a carb and go ride. At most I would think that certain sensors inc the injector should be replaced with resistors to fool the ecu.
    Enlighten me!
    #74
  15. Fabnut

    Fabnut Been here awhile

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    Another blat today, bit longer this time. Responsiveness seems the same, no change there, off the bottom is very smooth & probably a bit more progressive as the power seems to be fatter in the mid range. I found I had to wind it on a bit more to get to the meat of the power, not much more but enough I could notice, having said that tho, I am running a new motion pro throttle assembly with the longest cam in it, so that might have something to do with it as well.

    I have read somewhere that the RR's power was more inclined to be in the middle & top at the sacrifice of the bottom end but not having ridden one I cant say, so Im guessing thats what I may be finding with this new ECU & the different power characteristics. Alls good tho, nothing bad, just different.

    The best thing tho, Ive lost that frigin annoying jerkyness of the FI between throttle closed & just open, lovely & silky smooth now.....the way it should be.
    #75
  16. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    Does the rr have different cam than the standard 690?
    #76
  17. Mudguts

    Mudguts when in doubt GAS IT

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    Yes but for the average rider is to hi in the rev range and no bottom end ,
    I believe there are 4 different cams

    Duke R 2014
    SMR 2014
    Rally
    Standard

    The new duke and Smr are some were inbetween standard and rally
    #77
  18. Fabnut

    Fabnut Been here awhile

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    Hey im no expert Mousitsas, but to my mind, Id say the carbys TPS simply wouldnt interface with the 690's ECU's. KTM uses a specific protocol for its EFI which would mean theyd all need to be talking the same sophisticated electronic lingo & the carbys vocab is very limited. :lol3
    #78
  19. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    Good comment reg TPS. So one should make sure they fit the stock TPS onto the carb. Other than that though?
    #79
  20. DirtJack

    DirtJack Adventurer Supporter

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    Interesting idea. If you could figure out what the baseline constant value was for each of the FI sensors when replaced with a resistor, then you might be able to use TuneECU to program the ignition advance you want. Or just leave them all intact (including the injector). The carb will have no difficulty ignoring the sensors. :D You could still use TuneECU to program ignition advance values if necessary.
    #80