790 Adventure Quickshifter - Yes or No?

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by CalamariKid, Dec 14, 2019.

  1. JETalmage

    JETalmage Long timer

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    Well, you got the first sentence right.

    I'm having yet another conference with my dealer today because I did indeed have to pay for nothing due to KTM's still uncorrected misinformation. KTM's sloppiness has confused customers and dealers alike.

    The current comedy of errors with which I'm having to waste my time:

    KTM's website, and those of its dealers following suit (KTMTwins.com, for example), still proclaims that the Ergo Seat (heated)--specifically depicting and showing only the part number for the 790 Adventure's front seat--"...must be activated by the KTM diagnostics tool" and "is adjustable to three levels."

    The 790 Adventure Owner's Manual states that QuickShift+ is an option exactly as it is stated for all the other electronic options and depicts its control screen in the instrument panel exactly as all the other electronic options are treated.

    My seat, ordered when I bought the bike, finally arrives about 10 weeks later. No instructions in the box other than to download an online PDF, which you then have to hunt for. (KTM can't afford providing 4 sheets of letter-size paper with a $300 half seat.)

    I install it following the PDF to the letter. It is installed correctly. The PDF describes how to install it, but says absolutely nothing about how it is supposed to operate.

    I find that the heater comes on, but the control button for it glows (when somewhere dark enough to see it) green, red, or orange. But unlike the heated grips--which are adjustable to four levels, (not including being turned off)--seems to have none.

    So I assume that's because it "...must be activated by the KTM diagnostics tool."

    I make an appointment with the dealer to get that done. Am quoted for an hour of shop labor. Really?! To turn on a software menu for a $300 seat? I begrudgingly agree, but ask about QuickShift+; how much more to have that also activated while the mechanic is at it?

    Service Manager quotes 1.5 hours to do both at the same time. I ask "Are you sure? I've heard that the price for activating QuickShift+ is $350."

    Service Manager: "Where did you hear that?"

    Me: "Online forums about the 790. Some say that KTM requires payment from the Dealer, so it's not negotiable."

    Service Manager calls his KTM US trained mechanic. Mechanic say's 1.5 hours is fine.

    I agree to pay that.

    Mechanic:

    • Cannot find any software to activate for the seat. Calls KTM USA for advice. KTM USA says "Oh. This is the only heated seat that does not require activation."
    • Installs software for the Quickshift. Test rides the bike to verify it's working.
    • Also tries the seat. Finds that it's heating, but also observes (unprompted, on his own) that there seems to be no way to turn it off, other than stopping the engine, and that it's practically impossible to tell what color it's glowing in even overcast daylight, without shading it with both hands. Even finds it laughable.
    I pay for the 1.5 hours, agreeing that the mechanic will call KTM again when it re-opens to ask how one is supposed to turn off the heated seat while riding.

    I ride the bike home. I find that the quickshifter seems to be working (although difficult to tell, being quite clunky in lower 3 gears, on both up- and down-shifts). So to compare it to just ordinary clutchless shifting without the feature, I look for the menu to turn it off. No menu.

    I ride the bike back to the dealer, show the Service Manager and the Mechanic the Owner's Manual. They agree to take this up with KTM also.

    Thursday: Mechanic has reached KTM US again. Conveys to me these replies:

    "Quickshift is not optional; it's standard equipment. Quickshift+ is a separate feature that merely allows one to turn it off. The KTM guy stressed that you have to be going 30 MPH before using it."

    Me: (Flabberghasted) "So the heated seat does not have to be "...activated by the KTM diagnostics tool" and the quickshift feature was already working before I brought it here?

    Mechanic: Yes.

    Me: "So I just paid 1.5 hours for nothing; no changes to the bike?"

    Mechanic: (A bit sheepishly) "Well, for my time."

    Me: "But you made no changes to the bike."

    Mechanic: "Well, I did install a software program for the quickshift."

    Me: "But you're telling me that KTM say's it's standard. What does the software do?"

    Mechanic: "I don't know. I didn't ride the bike before working on it, so I don't know if the quickshifter was already working."

    Me: "So it was supposedly working before I brought it here. How do I turn it off?"

    Mechanic: "You can't. You have to buy Quickshift+ to do that."

    Me: "And how much is that?"

    Mechanic: "$350."

    So I will be taking this up with the dealer's management today. I'm pretty confident I'll get my money back. But can any intellectually honest person not see what a completely stupid and sloppy mess KTM has made of this?

    Where is the recall memo to new bike purchasers advising them that the heated seat, contrary to its own customer-facing information, does not require activation?

    Where is there any distinction mentioned in the Owner's Manual between not-optional "QuickShift" versus optional "QuickShift+" which provides no functionality other than a software "off switch" at a ridiculous price of $350?

    Where is there any mention in the Owner's Manual about a '30MPH' threshold?

    Where is the Authorized Dealer memo clarifying any of this to KTM dealers so that they don't erroneously charge customers money, waste their time, and ruin their buying experience for nothing?

    That's why I don't really blame my dealer for this. They're as subject to KTM's stupid misinformation as I am.

    Buyers beware: KTM is already way overdue for correcting its documentation, and owes all 790 buyers (and its Dealers) more than an apology.

    JET
    #61
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  2. kzeb

    kzeb Been here quite some time

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    Quite a story :hmmmmm
    If I where you I'd find me another dealer.. your dealer sure isn't up for the task..
    now breathe... and think of flowering meadows and great muddy trails once all of this is just a cloudy memory and you still got a hell of a bike.. :thumb
    [​IMG]
    #62
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  3. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    KTM communication is often incomplete and freqently inaccurate. Should they fix that? Yes. Is it news? Nope. It's a relentless underlying sloppines and lack of QA that shows up at times in both their manufacturing and marketing.

    If it weren't for the wacky genius of their core designers they'd be screwed as a businesss, but their edgy and decidedly non boring motorcycles keep folks like me buying their products. My fondest dream is they make the effort to fix those QA issues, but I'm not holding my breath.

    When the quality of communication and deadnuts consistency in products produced becomes my priority over edgy and fun I'll buy something from Japan.
    #63
  4. marchyman

    marchyman barely informed Supporter

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    :nono Four levels of heat plus off.
    #64
  5. JETalmage

    JETalmage Long timer

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    Okay, I stand corrected. But my point still stands: All claimed "Levels" are still heat levels; none of the four levels is "Off". It's laughable to call two levels of heat plus off "adjustable to three levels"--except, of course, to KTM apologists simply too enamored with new bike euphoria to admit obvious error.

    JET
    #65
  6. JETalmage

    JETalmage Long timer

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    Not in this lifetime, bucko. My dealer will make good on this, one way or another. Family owned business for 100 years. Great people. Some of the best in the business.

    The Dealers are just as misinformed and inconvenienced by KTM in this debacle as are its owners. This is all on KTM.

    From which of the other manufactures of The Big Five would we tolerate such nonsense? If this kind of behavior remains a trend at KTM, it will (and should) return to The Big Four.

    And no, I'm not wishing for that to happen. Like anyone else, I buy KTMs for a reason. But it's not to be gouged and misinformed. I'm not going to defend the indefensible. And I don't wear rose colored glasses.

    JET
    #66
  7. CalamariKid

    CalamariKid Been here awhile Supporter

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    Yoga, just sayin...
    #67
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  8. Kinkysmurf

    Kinkysmurf Adventurer

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    Kinky likes yoga, all those milfs.
    #68
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  9. 1coolbanana

    1coolbanana Long timer

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    FYI

    QS is enabled standard with provides upshifting only.
    QS + you have to pay for and this enables the menu and the ability to use downshift and switch off.

    It has to be calibrated by the tech when downloading is done and enabled, my tech spent an hour getting it calibrated properly because he wasnt happy with it and now its buttery smooth up and down.
    It wasnt to start with and he said, "you wouldnt be happy with it as it was".
    Its very slick when working correctly.

    Cant help with the seat.
    #69
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  10. 1coolbanana

    1coolbanana Long timer

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    :lol3 :happay
    #70
  11. JETalmage

    JETalmage Long timer

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    Thanks, but at this point yours is just one more 'one guy's opinion' conflicting in details with others already stated as if certain fact in this thread, and with what's stated in KTM's documentation. Thus, the confusion increases.

    It's up to KTM to authoritatively clarify this nonsense to both owners and dealers.

    upload_2020-1-19_6-57-33.png

    JET
    #71
  12. sluagh

    sluagh not fade away

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    Not my experience. The bike came with it enabled both ways but I can't turn it off. I'm certain it works for downshifting because I can tell that the ECU increases rpms when downshifting without the clutch.
    #72
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  13. krussell

    krussell Gravel Warrior Supporter

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    I thought about the both the QS and the cruise quite a bit before picking my bike up two days ago. I ended up deciding I would pass on both for now. On the way home from the dealer I figured I'd see if the QS was enabled and was pleasantly surprised. Works up and down, and works really well, better than any I've had previously.
    #73
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  14. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    Your quite right. There is no authoritative answer at this point. The scuttlebutt I heard from my dealer last May was that during the dealer meeting in Feb they announced the QS would be an optional accessory and that before the Feburary dealers meeting they had been told it would be standard. Rumor was there was some pushback about it.

    Enter my theory.... The manuals were written and printed by the marketing department under the assumption that QS was going to be an optional accessory. The pushback KTM got regarding it not being standard caused them to flip flop on it and have it enabled by default and make turning QS OFF an optional accessory.
    They either didn't tell the folks that produce the manuals or just didn't care enough bother to reprint the manual.
    #74
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  15. Thumper Dumper

    Thumper Dumper Been here awhile

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    Not sure what your point is with the highlighted sections of the manual as it is correct.
    if you have QS+ you can disable it in the menu as stated.
    #75
  16. Thumper Dumper

    Thumper Dumper Been here awhile

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    Not sure what your point is with the highlighted sections of the manual as it is correct.
    if you have QS+ you can disable it in the menu as stated.
    #76
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  17. kzeb

    kzeb Been here quite some time

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    Waow .. :tough

    I bet it's all a big conspiracy against you and all other great people around you, the best great people...
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  18. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist Supporter

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    Threads polluted with idiots on ignore, like this one, become confusing. :photog
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  19. 1coolbanana

    1coolbanana Long timer

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    Youre welcome :lol3
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  20. kubcat

    kubcat Riding is Eudaemonic Supporter

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    That's why I'm reluctant to hit the ignore button on him. He posts so much that I think I will get confused about where the thread is going. Easy enough to scroll past his pages long posts and stay "in line" with the logic.
    #80
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