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790 Adventure R - high side, where was the TC?

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by InconelWolf, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Toddv

    Toddv Long timer

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    It's not about being Chris Birch, sometimes you need wheel speed like in mud or deep sand. Some people don't want rider aids at all, they can definitely interfere in some situations.
    #41
  2. kubcat

    kubcat Been here awhile Supporter

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    I only run in rally mode. For dry tarmac I run full abs with TC around 5. I really don't notice it at all and ride moderately aggressively. So slip on the road at TC8 his has not been my experience, which makes me question your claim. Maybe you need more seat time experimenting with various settings before you make another pronouncement about how not to use rally mode?
    #42
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  3. OhDuh

    OhDuh Adventurer

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    What I mean is that TC at 5 will allow you too much slip. If you ride on tarmac it is the same as turning it off completely. There is no point on using TC 1-9 on tarmac because 8 will interfer too late which means you already lost control if you'd need it and 9 interferes all the time and makes no fun. We discussed that in another forum. People were thinking about flashing the duke software so they can actually use 1-9 on tarmac with the duke race package. Or maybe a lot of us are just plain wrong. We had some guys with a duke head unit. It included the supermoto and race mode.

    TC takes power away based on the rotation of the back wheel compared to the front wheel including parameters like lean, throttle position etc. That is done every milisecond if I remember right. It doesn't know on which surface you are riding. Now go on sand turn it on 8 and have a look at how much spin / lean + powerslide is possible. If you do have the same spin or powerslides and you do that regularly on tarmac I'd be immensely impressed.
    #43
  4. kubcat

    kubcat Been here awhile Supporter

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    I know exactly what you meant, and that has not been my experience. If you inadvertently hit some loose gravel in a turn on tarmac, TC5 will save your ass.
    #44
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  5. chippertheripper

    chippertheripper motorcycle junkie Supporter

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    The moral of the story is twofold. The OP dropped this nugget and took off, and try not to put yourself in a position where you need to count on the tc to save you on the street.


    In the woods, let it all hang out as far as your skills will allow.
    #45
  6. OhDuh

    OhDuh Adventurer

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    Not my experience but who knows how the blackbox really works unless a ktm mechanic joins the conversation. Additionally: if you slip on loose gravel while rolling (i.e. without accel.) there is absolutely nothing TC, ABS or Vodoo can do.
    #46
  7. ramirin

    ramirin Ready to push

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    That's why it's better to keep the finger on clucth no matter how many donkey kongs attached to the dash.
    #47
  8. macaw1us

    macaw1us Adventurer

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    Pretty common...Ass end slides out and people panic, shut off the gas and the spin stops, tire catches and high side follows.
    Unless you have done it and high sided enough you don't panic, it's rider error.
    Learned that one from Flat tracking and that's just my personal opinion.
    #48
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  9. Nowwhat

    Nowwhat I'll Go Second... Super Supporter

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    I used the TC today.... felt dirty doing it... but this went for miles

    20191228_140236.jpg
    #49
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  10. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    A human can't react close to as quickly as a computer can. Its more fair to accept there are situations that it doesn't matter in the least what electronics that you have, you are going to crash.

    The rest is a matter of bending the probability curve.

    Particularly on tarmac, "when in doubt, throttle out" almost always applies.

    i.e. my last off when I hit a puddle of transmission fluid I couldn't see.

    ABS wouldn't have helped, I wasn't on the brakes, TC wouldn't have helped.....I was losing the front. I got into the throttle and it didn't save it......all of this at 15mph without anything remotely resembling a heavy lean and barely off of idle. I did everything "right", and ended up limping back home to get my truck to get to class that night.


    The rider aides are nice, but they aren't perfect.
    #50
  11. InconelWolf

    InconelWolf Adventurer

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    Finally back online again, had a bit of a rough recovery from surgery but my collar bone now has about 12 screws and multiple plates holding it together. The bike fared much better than me in the end and only has cosmetic damage.

    Still a bit confused about what happened to be honest, clearly I made a rider error because I requested more traction than was available for whatever reason (cold tires maybe) but I have yet to find anything abnormally wrong with the bike, the tires or the road surface and I have confirmed the bike was in 'road mode' with both the MTC and ABS engaged and it was a bone dry road. I come back to my original point questioning the point of the traction control, to me this seems like exactly the situation where it should have intervened and saved me... Whatever else happened to cause the final crash the TC let the bike get completely sideways as I applied the gas which doesn't seem right to me. I have watched all the MTC videos KTM puts out and they clearly show test riders wildly opening the throttle mid corner with zero effect on the bikes even on wet roads.

    Also just to be clear my bike is a 2020 model, they literally just hit dealers a few weeks ago, not sure if KTM made any changes vs the 2019 bikes which I suspect most people here are riding.

    I might try and get in contact with KTM to see if they want to inspect the bike but I imagine they will be a bit hesitant to discuss for legal reasons.

    From all the comments here it sounds like everyone else has good experience with their TC operating more or less as expected so does not seem like a wide spread problem at least.
    #51
  12. braaap!

    braaap! Long timer Supporter

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    Glad that you're on the mend!
    Any M/C crash where it's hard to pinpoint the cause(s) is a bit unnerving... But you just got to get back on the horse and experiment with the TC and ABS so that you can regain confidence (in the bike) back.
    Once the collarbone has fully healed that is... Doctor's orders :thumb
    #52
  13. ShaftEd

    ShaftEd Long timer

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    Well Wolf, you’re not the first to break a collarbone before the first service. My buddy had 500 miles on his 790r last summer and was doing his first dirt road. Lost traction and high sided himself into the hospital. Broken collarbone and a bunch of broken ribs. He’s an experienced dirt rider but had taken some years off. First bike getting back into riding. I didn’t see it but does sound similar to yours only he was on a dirt surface. Not a good re-entry into riding. Wife had him sell it and that’s that. I partially blame the crappy Karoo’s.
    #53
  14. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    Thats a shame. I won't question what is decided on behind closed doors between a couple, but still it's a real shame.

    If it's any consolation tell him this - as a young medic nearly 30 yrs ago, I attended to a patient who had stepped off a curb and snapped his lower leg. He was muscular, fit and sober .. in the prime of his life. I realized then that when shit wants to happen, it simply will unfortunately.

    Here's hoping 2020 brings all the healing we need so we can get back to enjoying whatever it is we desire.
    #54
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  15. motokeith

    motokeith Been here awhile

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    I had something very similar happen to me riding my CBR900RR back in the day. Was just tooling through the city and was coming to a stop at a red light and the front end just suddenly went zero traction and tucked. I was so close to actually being stopped that I just ended up standing on my two feet with the bike on its side between my legs. Still stuck under the front tire was one of those square lane marker reflectors that are (usually) embedded in the road. The thing had been laying in the middle of the lane with the reflector side down and the asphalt covered backside facing up and when I rolled onto it the front wheel instantly locked and that reflector thing went sliding. So dumb.
    #55
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  16. OhDuh

    OhDuh Adventurer

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    Similiar thing:
    Drove on some embedded wet rails of a street railway with almost no lean angle and ~10 mph. Slipped instantly because both tyres hit the same rail at the same time. (rider mistake). Bike dropped on my leg and I couldn't lift it up. No TC, Abs or anything would have helped. That's just harsh physics. Luckily some builders were around and lifted the bike up so I could get outta there. Due to low speed nothing majorly bad happened.

    So a brain and eyes save you more than anything else.

    @InconelWolf wish you a good recovery
    #56
  17. brianbrannon

    brianbrannon They'll ride up with wear

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    Easy there, chicken little

    Had to be something on the road or tire. Not enough power to "massively break traction"
    #57
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  18. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    Is the OP on one of the main routes to a rural dump etc? I could see there being the possibility of a piece of dark plastic bag blending in with the road which could easily get under tire and break traction. Afterwards being carried up and into the wind, and outta sight when you looked.
    #58
  19. DittyBag

    DittyBag A bag of dirty stuff

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    I've read the all the responses. I own no ktm, nor have I ever ridden a wired bike.

    Does anyone have the answer as to whether the ABS engages during a wheel spin on the back? The TC is trying to keep or regain traction when it is lost. If the bike sensed wheel spin in the rear, then, on street setting, it should cut the input of the rider throttle. If it also applied brake to the rear, it seems logical that the combination of rapidly cut throttle and application of brake is what caused a rapid re-attraction of the rear to the dirt surface, while the bike is sideways. High side.
    #59
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  20. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    No ABS can only relieve the pressure in the brake circuits, it can't operate the brakes for you.

    Likewise the traction control doesn't add throttle ever, with the Bosche systems, the MTC computer closes the throttle for you at the throttle body butterfly, and its super transparent if you have the bike set up correctly.
    #60
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