790 Adventure R - high side, where was the TC?

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by InconelWolf, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Toddv

    Toddv Long timer

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    That big round shiniy thing is the pump... I can assure you there's an acumilator is there also. It's just how they work.
    #81
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  2. Tripped1

    Tripped1 Smoove, Smoove like velvet.

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    Oh heh you are right, that is the rear spring preload.....I thought that was the ABS accumulator.
    #82
  3. Toddv

    Toddv Long timer

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    Not sure if you're being serious or not? To be more clear, I'm talking about the round cylinder sticking out of the side of the ABS module not the gold anodized tube in your photo.
    #83
  4. ramirin

    ramirin Ready to push

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    It would be impossible to combine front and rear in abs - that would be a disaster. Volume is so small that it doesn't need any huge tanks to accumulate.
    #84
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  5. Kinkysmurf

    Kinkysmurf Adventurer

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    About the TC. incident.
    The OP said he had the bike 5 days. Green tyres ? Edge knobs maybe still green even if centre knobs are scrubbed. ?

    I had some RallZ's fitted at mates bike shop on standard rims back in Sept. We chatted about being careful because of green tyres.
    pulled out of shop and turn onto road. Barely cracked the throttle but was still leaned over a little.

    Back step around about 35-45 Deg. in a flash. I thought I saved it myself, then thought NO the TC saved me. I checked it was on. Still dont know who saved who.
    I was ready for it to step out a little, so i can understand you going down, if you were not expecting it.

    Never had it again, I put it down to Hotmix surface and Green tyres. Didn't even spin up much, small black mark.
    #85
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  6. InconelWolf

    InconelWolf Adventurer

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    The bike had about 40 miles on it at the time of the incident and about 1.5hrs riding time, I had been progressively adding small amounts of lean and throttle to break in the tires (but nothing extreme yet). Tires looked nicely scrubbed in to about 1/2 to 2/3 of the way from centre to the extreme edge, my lean angle at the time of the incident was not high (I have it on camera) and would have been firmly on the scrubbed in area.

    As you commented I also had a shimmy when pulling away from the dealership at 0 miles but the step out was minimal, maybe 5-10 degrees at most, also not sure whether it was me or the TC that caught that, I assumed the TC at that time. Either way that seemed acceptable, I would expect the TC to allow a little slip before intervening.

    I think I am just going to leave the bike in rain mode once I am able to ride it again, if nothing else I think that softens the power and throttle response.
    #86
  7. 23103a

    23103a not n00b

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    What was the ambient temperature and your tire pressure at the time this happened? New tires doesn't matter so much, cold tires does. What was your throttle application like?

    I have no experience with the 790 TC, but I do think the SDR1290 TC also seems to allow a lot of slip before it does anything. I know on my Tiger it is very rudimentary compared to how sportbikes (like my 2015 R1) work. The Tiger allows the wheel to spin up for a solid .5 seconds before dropping the hammer on your throttle instantly. I've always felt like it would make a rear end slide turn into a high side if it ever intervened.

    Always remember to progressively add throttle--load the tire before you work the tire. Even if you're only at 15* of lean angle, bad things happen when you unleash 100 HP instantly on the tire.
    #87
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  8. Toddv

    Toddv Long timer

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    New tires can make a huge difference, especially the Karoo 3's apparently. I've scrubbed in a lot of new tires but never a rear as greasy as the Karoo 3. Mine was slippery for a good while.
    #88
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  9. InconelWolf

    InconelWolf Adventurer

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    I agree on the Karoos being extra greasy, I don't have any other explanation for how it is possible to lose traction in the first place under the conditions I was riding in. I have ridden on a lot of new tires over the years and never experienced anything like that...
    I don't recall the exact temperature but it was a typical SoCal winter evening so something in the mid 60s, tire pressure in the rear was about 32psi when I measured it a couple of days later so nothing crazy high or low.

    To be clear I certainly didn't unleash 100 HP, bike was still breaking in so was probably only in the <4000 rpm engine speed range and throttle only slightly open, barely leaned over.

    If you watch the KTM video I posted in an earlier post the TC is shown to intervene without any noticeable slip / step out. I agree that TC that waits 0.5s to activate is more likely to hurt than help, I don't think that is the intent with the KTM system.

    As previously stated I am planning to put it in rain mode and ride it like the road is covered in frozen engine oil for the first couple of hundred miles once I get back to it in a couple of months. Having said that from the articles I have read on breaking in new tires you really only break them in as you progressively add lean and load so at some point you need to be able to trust them a little. Also trying to figure out a safe scenario to be able to test the traction control, see when/how it kicks in (track day perhaps).

    Planning to visit the KTM dealer this weekend and see how responsive they are...
    #89
  10. 23103a

    23103a not n00b

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    I suppose so. Most likely a combination of a cold, new tire with lots of tread void causing it to break loose. Is the KTM traction control supposed to be lean sensitive?

    I've never bought the new tires theory myself. At the track we go out on brand new heated to 175° tires and i'm doing 95% of race pace by the third turn. I've always just been very wary of lean angle on the street with new tires until I get down the freeway and to the twisties, when the tires will have some heat.
    #90
  11. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    What blows the most is that this will be in your head for a bit once you're back in the saddle. I hope you resolve that and push through it so you can fully enjoy that beautiful 790.
    #91
  12. Toddv

    Toddv Long timer

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    The Karoo's are different, I've never seen much need to scrub in tires myself but those things were slick for a bit.
    #92
  13. InconelWolf

    InconelWolf Adventurer

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    Went to the KTM dealer Saturday, good response so far. After some mixed initial reception I showed them the video and they immediately got super interested and agreed that the TC didn't seem to have been working right.
    Taking the bike in tomorrow for them to download data from the ECU and see what info is in there, they seemed to think it would have some interesting data...
    #93
  14. InconelWolf

    InconelWolf Adventurer

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    Agreed, it will take some time to get comfortable with it, super bummed because it is/was my dream bike. I will push through though.
    Hopefully KTM finds a fixable root cause for the traction control, that will help.
    #94
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  15. ramirin

    ramirin Ready to push

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    This is partly why I wen't to 'dirt' direction 15+ years ago.. didn't highside but hit a car that made U-turn without blinker on area where U-turn is forbidden and closed the road right in front of me. Like it more in the woods and distant areas.
    #95
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  16. brianbrannon

    brianbrannon They'll ride up with wear

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    There's no evidence the traction control caused a crash. There is evidence that concussions cause memory loss and disorientation, though
    #96
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  17. Kinkysmurf

    Kinkysmurf Adventurer

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    So does beer, whats your point. ?
    #97
  18. InconelWolf

    InconelWolf Adventurer

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    Dude, I am not suggesting the TC caused the crash, have you even read my posts?
    Just saying it didn't intervene as I would have expected (based on KTM's own promotional videos), and I have 3 angles of video footage of the crash so nothing is down to my memory (so I do have some evidence). I have showed the video to KTM and they also immediately agreed it didn't look like the TC worked.

    I am sure you (Like Bronnowo) are a riding god and never need the TC to activate but KTM saw fit to install it on this bike for us mere mortals with presumably the assumption that it would save some of us when we made a mistake or encountered an off nominal set of conditions.

    Just for the record I will say it again THE ROOT CAUSE OF THE CRASH WAS CLEARLY ME, I requested more traction than was available most likely due to the still greasy rear tire.

    Now, anything actually useful to add?
    #98
  19. InconelWolf

    InconelWolf Adventurer

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    This was for brianbrannon just to be clear
    #99
  20. brianbrannon

    brianbrannon They'll ride up with wear

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    Having read all of your posts claiming the traction control didn't prevent your crash?

    Irrational anger also a symptom of concussions
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