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Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by [Art], Oct 19, 2019.
I also think the nitrogen pressure is different, which might affect ride height.
Update - It took a long time but KTM finally rebuilt the shock for me. I had to call customer service in the US to make it happen.
Timing to get it fixed was long but I was out riding my 350 while I waited. Overall, happy they fixed it even though I was past the 12 month warranty.
Posted back on page 9 that I blew a rear shock seal at about 3,500 miles and had it independently repaired as I was going to ride the COBDR in a couple weeks. Shock was reinstalled with the Camel heat shield.
Update - Transported the bikes to Salt Lake City, rode from SLC to Four-Corners to begin the COBDR. Rode the COBDR and then rode the scenic, paved, route home (WY to Seattle, WA), adding 2,750 miles to the odo. Rear shock is not showing any sign of leakage.
Here's hoping some of us just got seals from a bad batch when new!
That has proven NOT to be the case. The seals got damaged from the cavitation the original shim stack created, resulting in suction that sucked any debris on the shaft into the cylinder from the outside, past the seal. As the debris was sucked in it then wore the seal down, resulting in the by now well-known "blown seal" leak. Hopefully when your independent guy rebuilt your shock he didn't just replicate the original shim stack and nitro pressure, as that was the cause to begin with.
Well-known, dang. I had no idea that was well known.
Did we come to know that before or after page 9 of this post? I may not have read the post closely after taking mine in.
Better question; how did ktm not figure this out during testing?
Hmm, time will tell if that is case kub, tks!
Good question. I think its because KTM treats WP as a supplier, and expects the suspension to just meet the design specs. WP would be responsible for the testing in that scenario. Given that they adapted a tried-and-true suspension from other bikes, I could see a situation where they just qualified/validated the design "by similarity", rather than "by test". That could lead us to the situation the early bike owners have often found themselves in with the rear shock.
I think time has told, as evidenced by the 13 previous pages of posts... and KTM funded rebuilds by WP service centers. KTM has a bit of a reputation for rejecting claims most others would cover. The fact that they are covering this for earlier models is more evidence.
I have been told that SOP for WP is to take feedback from dealers and riders to periodically fine-tune (or fix, in this case) the shim stack, nitro pressures, etc. on an ongoing basis. According to someone in a position to truly know, the same suspension part number typically does NOT have the same setup year by year.
I guess the question is when did WP make the changes to the shock to address the cavitation, and when did those mods hit the production line?
Yeah, maybe well-known is a stretch. Certainly the potential failure is well-known. The cause maybe not so much. KTM and WP have downplayed this, both among the customers and the dealers. For those that have pushed the issue past the dealers, or have good working relationships with dealers that aren't afraid to push on KTM NA, we have been successful in getting the issue resolved.
FWIW - rebuilt mine last week. First one lasted 21,000km. Cost about $125 and an evening of labour to do it myself.
Interesting reading the above. The seal I pulled off fit loose and before reading this I would’ve assumed that if it fit tight during manufacturing it’d shrunk during operation (ie, bad batch of seals). But, after reading the above it being worn down by debris being drawn in also makes sense.
Either way, I’m not unhappy with my decision. I’d rather have the bike down for a day than sending it in and waiting weeks during riding season. Knowing what I know now, I’ll still enjoy what’s left of the season and send the shock in this winter.
just joined the club.... 790R 2019 with 10k KM
Have a long weekend planned and will go anyway...It will be quite bumpy though..
Just confirmed mines blown also. 5200 miles. Never abused and mostly street ridden. Dealers dragging his feet and trying to put it through the extended warranty company. I called KTM NA and he confirmed they are doing “good will” replacements depending on the situation. Fingers crossed.
Strange, my 950 w 67k on it is still going strong...
Fudge them "doing “good will” replacements depending on the situation" they know that they have a problem the bastards that is why I got burnt by the Orange and decided never ever again doesn't matter how good their bikes are I will never buy one of their bikes.
Agreed. That’s how I feel about BMW cars after my $42k M5 boat anchor. They know of the problems but won’t admit them. Shitty way to do business.
don't get me started, Z4M coupe coil springs snapped after 3K miles, and I was rigidly following their run in instructions, luckily they had to accept as I fitted a data logger day one, so they had to retract accusations that the driver acted recklessly and fix it, needless to say it left a sour taste in my mouth.
I agree to an extent. A "Goodwill" repair strikes me as a way for KTM to reduce the odds of facing a mandatory recall. By all accounts I've heard the current fix is a combination of modifying the shim stack and using a higher nitrogen charge. The fact that they are modifying the shock from the original spec to make a proper repair points to an issue that was universal rather than an oddball handful of shocks with a production discrepancy.
My first shock repair consisted of only new seals and a higher nitrogen charge and didn't last long. The second repair was a rebuild, revised shim stack, and combined with the higher nitrogen charge and was performed by a WP service center. This appears to have resolved the shocks cavitation issues. 12k miles on the rebuild and the shock feels as good now as when it was rebuilt.
If KTM wants to call it goodwill so be it, as long as they extend that goodwill to all owners with the original shock then whether they call it a warranty/recall issue or good will doesn't make a huge difference to owners but probably saves them from having to replace ones that for whatever reason have not failed (yet).
I fairly quickly, read through this entire thread. I did contribute to it in the fall of 2019 after my shock leaked and was repaired under warranty by KTM.
My local dealer had to ship the shock to an authorized WP center for the work. I have had no problem with this shock since, but I am constantly worried about my rebuilt shock. Due to the fact that the dealer (who I trust) did not do the work, I have no idea what WP found, or what they replaced or upgraded. I asked the dealer to get in touch with WP with an explanation, but nothing. There have been many very knowledgeable suspensions gurus "weigh in" on this thread, but I have yet to hear of any ONE component that failed, or if the "fix" will prevent further failures. I have no idea if my shock has the changes Windblown mentions above. This is not sitting with me very well as this 790R is my travel bike. When my travel bike breaks down, I will be nowhere near home.
I had my 2019 shock rebuilt this summer by a combo KTM dealer/WP Authorized shop and spoke at length with the owner as to the nature of the problem with the shock, as well as the solution. Based on that conversation, I am convinced you have nothing to worry about and that the fix did indeed address the 2 primary deficiencies in the shock as built by the WP factory. Ride on at peace.