790 Adventure R rear shock failure

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by [Art], Oct 19, 2019.

  1. Konflict Motorsports

    Konflict Motorsports TUNER Supporter

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    Copied from the 790 R Suspension thread, we posted our thoughts last week.

    I've been meaning to chime in on this thread for some time. We have put a ton of time and effort into the 790 Adventure with both OEM components and the Xplor Pro Components and we are just about to go live with our offerings.


    We have seen a vast number of failures, some of our clients/friends have had multiple failures (one has had 4/5 failures in 4500 miles, each time the unit has been addressed by KTM or WP directly). Of the 30 or so we have seen through our shop so far we have seen a multitude of failure points such as scorn shock bodies, piston bushings destroyed, seals folded over, separator piston failures, separator piston o-ring failures as well as a few others items.


    With the variance in build data (reservoir pressure's) as well units we have inspected here in the shop having a variety of build specifications our initial thoughts were that it was a side load issue hence the wear on the shock body in the manner that we have seen. We (and I am sure George will chime in) see a number of shock body failures on WP units, link Husky and KTM's blow through the piston bushes fairly quickly and the tube gets destroyed.

    On the 1090/1290 ADV-R we have seen distorted shock tubes and rebound cap's bent inwards (towards seal head) which in turn flares the bottom of the shock tube out allowing the rebound cap to fall on the bump rubber destroying the bottom of the shock tube. In other words the issues with the 790 is not something new, but the failure point is.


    The shock seal (two-piece seal) is the same that has been used since 2007. We’ve heard rumors of a bad batch of seals, but in our opinion, this is not the case. We’ve heard of and seen products to address the heat coming off the catalytic converter may be a solution. We have tested units with de-cat bikes and OEM and shock temperatures have not fluctuated all that significantly in the testing we have done.

    These units run hot by design, they changed some of the internal components that generate more heat as opposed to previous WP units in the ADV segment. These item changes are to increase certain aspects of the suspension performance.


    At this year’s KTM Adventure Rider Rally in Breckenridge there was in the range of 7-9 failures during the event. It is not isolated only to hardcore enduro type riders, but is also happening to riders who have only ridden pavement, average BDR style riders, very skilled aggressive off-road riders and everything in between.

    An interesting point is that the XPLOR Pro Components are not seeing the failure issues we have seen with the OEM components to our knowledge, therefore the issue is once again isolated.


    Keep in mind the failure points seen have been all over the board, but we feel it is a combination of a few items:

    • With the standard settings these applications come with we are seeing more riders forgoing the installation of proper springs for their height and weight. This drastically alters handling and suspension performance, therefore, if you do not fall within the 165-187 lb. weight rating in full gear you are not seeing the handling characteristics, nor the suspension performance the bike was designed to provide.
    • We have seen a variance in reservoir pressure of both 15 & 16 bar. With these issues we have our thoughts on why the variance exists in both the service manuals and in units we’ve had in hand, but those questions will go unanswered I'm sure.
    • We feel the reason for the failure points have been narrowed down to a few items specifically. We have units in the field testing as I type this, but will not know for certain until the R&D aspect of the fix is confirmed. Dyno testing has proven to not be the end-all in R&D for us so we are doing real word tests with a variety of test subjects in order to put the units through their paces.
    If anyone has any questions in regards to OEM components, OEM components setup or XPLOR Pro Components please feel free to give us a ring at the shop or shoot us a message. We have our stock of springs and items ready to be released here shortly.


    I'm sure I missed a few questions as this thread has gotten pretty detailed, but please feel free to include us in any further conversation regarding the matter.


    All the best,


    Alex M.
    #21
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  2. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    Detective Alex is on the case. :clap
    Very curious what you come up with Alex. Keep us in the loop!
    #22
  3. justinope

    justinope Long timer

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    I thought the springs had a much wider range of weight based on how they rode in stock form, damn

    Is there any website out there that lists the weight each bike's suspension was setup in stock form for?
    #23
  4. PapaToe

    PapaToe Adventurer

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    “On the 1090/1290 ADV-R we have seen distorted shock tubes and rebound cap's bent inwards (towards seal head) which in turn flares the bottom of the shock tube out allowing the rebound cap to fall on the bump rubber destroying the bottom of the shock tube. In other words the issues with the 790 is not something new, but the failure point is.”

    So, from what you can tell would you say the 1090/1290 OEM shock is failing at the same rate as the 790?
    #24
  5. Alpha 1

    Alpha 1 Adventurer

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    any one have a update on what is causing the blown shocks ?
    my bike has been in the shop for 2 weeks now with nothing happing until yesterday KTM was telling my dealer no seals or replacement shocks availabile. I called KTM customer service yesterday and they are now next day shipping my shock out for rebuild.
    #25
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  6. kateemer2

    kateemer2 Adventurer

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    Don't know what's the cause had the same problem was all repaired under warranty no problem.
    They send my shock to local WP office which happens to be in the same building as Dutch KTM HQ.
    I asked them if heat from that cat could have caused this and they said no way.
    Although I like the Camel ADV heat shield I leave it for now let's wait and see if it happens again or not.
    #26
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  7. jmarleau

    jmarleau Been here awhile

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    I lost all fluid in my 790R shock after a ride this August. Without reading anything about any issues, I am convinced heat is the culprit. During a recent slow speed off-road ride, the rear shock was almost too hot to hold on to.

    KTM has replaced the shock without question. This is good that they seem to be replacing these, but I am waiting for a recall and perhaps a permanent KTM heat shield fix.

    Failing that, looks like Camel Adventure gets more of my money.
    #27
  8. Velociraptor

    Velociraptor TrackBum Super Supporter

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    In the post from Konflict a bit above, they do not observe a big heat variation between shocks on bikes with or without the cat. I just got the heat shield from Camel and may install it but probably that is not the issue.
    #28
  9. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    I should have my bike back in a few days. Dealer recieved a repair/rebuild kit for the shock from KTM yesterday. I'll see if the mechanic notices any differences between the kit and parts in the shock. I suspect that it's a bit early in the process for there to be any change to the parts yet.

    Will be good to get it back and get some riding in to see how it holds up.
    #29
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  10. kubcat

    kubcat Been here awhile Supporter

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    Konflict is making the point that heat is the result rather than the cause. Discovering that its too hot to touch after it failed and concluding that heat caused the failure is like seeing a cop at the scene of every accident and concluding that cops cause accidents. Correlation without causation.
    #30
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  11. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    It was hot because it had pissed out all it's oil...
    #31
  12. jmarleau

    jmarleau Been here awhile

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    Nope. Not if it is hot to the touch after it has been rebuilt. Good work on the analogy though.
    #32
  13. kubcat

    kubcat Been here awhile Supporter

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    Still don't get it, even after the analogy:hmmmmm
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  14. BronNowo

    BronNowo Been here awhile

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    amazing how come KTM engineers didn't foresee it can get hot down there and shock is too close to cat...
    Who designs bikes these days?
    #34
  15. Brilloman

    Brilloman Been here awhile

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    interesting that it’s a dealer repair now. I thought initially that WP service centers were doing all the repairs.
    #35
  16. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    I'd guess that by now KTM & WP have the data they need for doing a comprehensive failure analysis so it's now likely just a matter of whether the dealer has the tools to perform rebuilds.
    #36
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  17. kaertner

    kaertner Long timer

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    shock is in exactly the same place in relation to the cat on the 790S and no failures reported on that bike. Looks like KTM engineers got it exactly right with regards to the effect of any heat from the cat.
    #37
  18. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    Right next to the cat is not exactly right. It is a compromise at best.
    #38
  19. BronNowo

    BronNowo Been here awhile

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    because nobody on S version rides dirt much silly, at road speeds cat gets some more cooling.
    Bad design, unless they assume everybody do de-cat anyway KTM cuts corners more and more each year, LOL
    #39
  20. kaertner

    kaertner Long timer

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    790S is used off road, in Europe anyway. My dealer has several customers that are using them regularly that way. The S is excellent off road but as usual it depends on the rider. So, you clearly don't understand how the 790S is being used, silly. Let me see, believe KTM know how to design a bike or believe some random guy on the internet from Poland? Enough said.
    #40
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