790 Adventure R Suspension Mods

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by windblown101, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    Ok checked stock and no springs that light. That is I believe a 46mm shock like the 1090R and seems a 62/63 ID pds spring would be too large ID. Custom spring takes 6 weeks to get made. Know the rate of the spring before you buy. Ive seen some that say they are for 185lb to 225lb riders or whatever and that simply ain't so. Get specific and benefit.
    Regarding the stacks. A x/over in the the face shim stack somewhere. The x/over will allow the wheel to move in rocks but still keep the bike up in the stroke where it needs to be.
    Or you can drill a bleed in the shock piston if you want and then increase valving and that will have similar effect. Digressive does not sound right. A bit of movement or bleed on top of stroke for rock, braking bump, acceleration bump compliance then hit the brakes with more shims to keep the bike from going too deep and bottoming. Progressive. Remember you have a stack in the high speed adjuster. You can stiffen that stack as well. Your shock can work as well as any out there. Maybe not for putting the hammer down in a long whoop section simply due to 46mm has less oil. But performance wise it can work as good as "any". When you decide to go back in, email me your stacks and leave a phone number. I will walk you through to an epic shock if you want to do the work. With that I would want you to order up a progressive spring from me or anybody, I do not care as long as it is correct, and go all in. When I say "any" I am talking about the untouchable Ohlins and the WP Trax etc. etc. etc. george@suspension101.com It would help if you have the original stacks fyi. Then we will discuss the options and put together a game plan.
    #21
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  2. AdvRonski

    AdvRonski They call me......Ronski

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    Awesome, George! I will get the info together and send it to you. It is a 46mm Xplor shock, but I believe it uses a PDS spring. In any case, what I would like to end up with is something around 270mm travel, but I'm not sure if this shock body will allow that.
    #22
  3. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    Oh you want to extend travel. The first two steps.
    1. Measure the rebound shim. On the shock shaft at the bottom of the piston is what wp calls a reb shim. It is the thick stainless spacer that goes under the shims, piston etc. It normally has an indentation under it. We need to know how much the shim is indented or cupped. By omitting this cup and putting a flat washer in its place without blocking the bleed we gain travel as the shock can extend a bit further.
    2. Make sure your swing arm can drop lower than it currently does when fully extended.

    Many bikes begin at a 3 to 1 ratio so 1mm more shock extension will get you 3mm of additional travel. So we are looking for 10mm of additional shock extension and 33mm of fork extension.
    Would be nice if I had a shock in hand but you took a good picture.
    So what other options are there before getting into shock shaft and possible shock body replacement.
    Shorter seal head. Had one shock with SKF seal head that was shorter than oem. Not a better seal head than oem but shorter never the less.
    Is is possible to shim the reb shim higher on the shaft or will the primary piston hit the bottoming cone?
    Any room to bring the snap ring that holds the seal head up a bit in the shock body?
    Think outside the box. Also the smaller bike shocks look like the same set up you have but there must be variations. Will some of those parts extend the travel? Shaft, body etc.

    Now with all that why do you want more travel? Here is a vid from a few months ago of us testing. Maximum travel is my 990 with 245mm. Kind of a slow speed suspension event but not bottoming. Your bike at 240 can be brought to a pretty darn high level. Unless you intend to go racing or true race pace then 240 is sufficient. If so then lets get to the homework of measuring.
    #23
  4. AdvRonski

    AdvRonski They call me......Ronski

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    Thanks again, George. The rebound shim is just a flat 4mm thick washer, so not much there, but I think there is room to shim it up a bit. There is an SKF seal head listed for a KYB shock that is 46mm with an 18mm shaft, so that may be an option. Next time I open it up, I will measure to see if there is room for a longer shock shaft without bottoming out in the shock body.
    As far as why I want more travel, well, my first 950 was at 245mm, and when that bike was totaled by a drunk driver, my current 265mm 950 was noticeably better on the trails around here and in Baja. Although the 790 is a different animal, and maybe a well-sorted 240mm will be good enough.
    I did email you the shock valving specs, so you can see what I've done so far.
    #24
  5. vanlierde

    vanlierde Been here awhile

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    Hyperpro is from Holland, and absolutely high quality stuff.
    #25
  6. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    Hey, can you comment on the 3 of you, and the fact that it looks like you have the most level attitude after the jump? Is this attributed solely to technique or is your suspension playing a good part? Maybe it's the camera angle, but I doubt it. You just look a lot more level coming off that jump, and I want to be able to separate rider position creating that angle, versus something going on in the forks.

    Thanks
    #26
  7. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    Do you have a racing background?

    If you are stating that the pictured shock is of very high quality, please elaborate on what makes it so.

    They were all close to being well dialed by that test so I would say rider position has the largest roll.
    None of them were kicking or doing anything funny.
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  8. chippertheripper

    chippertheripper motorcycle junkie Supporter

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    Don’t overlook shock rebound in regards to setting airborne attitude.
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  9. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    Or shorter travel but still mostly rider position. I am further forward than the others start to finish.
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  10. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    Thats why I threw it out there. Figured maybe the other 2 riders were stiffer rebounds, punting their noses upwards after impact. But I couldn't be sure with my pretty limited appreciation nor could I account for what the riders were doing really. @Torque likely has more subtle control of his attitude that his co-riders, and wants to hit the dirt running.
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  11. AdvRonski

    AdvRonski They call me......Ronski

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    Racing background? Yes, definitely. Been riding for 50 years, and racing for most of that. Roadracing, MX, Hare Scrambles, Enduros, ISDT Qualifiers, back in the day, and once in the Baja 500. Nowadays, just riding for the pure fun of it here in western Colorado, but I guess you never really stop racing.
    #31
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  12. Torque

    Torque Been here awhile

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    Cool, your the perfect candidate. Thank you! This is going to be fun. Will do much of the build in PM's but please post your results here. The primary piston is 12mm shims and 10mm for the secondary, correct? Once you are dialed we can talk about going public with the particulars of the build to help others out. The forks are going to have some custom parts and confidential info but will give some good advice for a home build.
    Regarding stopping racing, once it is in your blood you always want to show the guy in front of you your wheel. I can relate but slowing down at 60 dang it!
    #32
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  13. chippertheripper

    chippertheripper motorcycle junkie Supporter

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    it's always in your blood, alright. This is my first season off in the last 10yrs, to see if I can live in my own skin without having that competitive outlet.
    no racing motos or bicycles of any sort this year.
    so far I'm happy roaming the countryside and riding my own ride(s). I go fast when I want, I smell the roses when I want.
    #33
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  14. Camel ADV

    Camel ADV Long timer Supporter

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    So the stock 790R shock is 210mm x 58/60 x 95N/mm.... do you know what the stock fork springs are?
    #34
  15. AdvRonski

    AdvRonski They call me......Ronski

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    The service manual lists the fork springs as 6.7 N/mm, and a length of 464mm, with preload spacers. I did not measure the free length when I had the forks open.
    #35
  16. Camel ADV

    Camel ADV Long timer Supporter

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    Thanks. I never thought to look in the manual... I’ve never had a manual that listed spring rates before. I’m guessing the ID and OD are the same as other 48mm WPs.
    #36
  17. Fabricator

    Fabricator Hello Moto Supporter

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    One thing I noticed regarding fork height last weekend:

    Fork Height.JPG

    Was yours delivered showing the same? If so, have you adjusted it?
    #37
  18. chippertheripper

    chippertheripper motorcycle junkie Supporter

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    Yeah, my fork tubes are raised, I’m not sure if it’s to the third line like yours, but no I haven’t changed it.
    Steering doesn’t seem overly quick, so lowering them won’t be an advantage for me.
    #38
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  19. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    That's the stock setting on every one I've seen.
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  20. TrailTrauma

    TrailTrauma Nemophilist

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    My fork tubes came identical to the photo as well.
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