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Discussion in 'Parallel Universe (790/890)' started by windblown101, Jul 5, 2019.
Touched! I love it!
"That boy ain't right in the head."
It was 250 degrees, btw.
Hey Ronski & George nice work been enjoying the thread. Especially impressed how the bike handles the washouts! Wow Really Nice! Been thinking about the possible shock temp issue for a while...(as soon I saw a pic of the bike hahaha) Do you think the solution may be a large remote res with circulating lines? That how we solved on 4 wheels back in the day when running the small shocks (failure is a good teacher :)
I wonder how much the heat coming off the cat is causing the high temps.
It's a wonder they don't build heat sinks into shocks...
My R is one of the bikes that has blown the rear shock. It has been rebuilt and I am back on the road. Wondering why a bike with only 2k miles and only lightly off roaded blew a shock seal. I’m starting to think the cat is an issue. I just rode the bike for 15 street miles and the shock spring is too hot to touch. I think the cat is cooking it.
Interesting, that would make sense with all the failures that have been posted up. I guess time will tell if people end up with more than 1 rebuild / we learn what changes when they go back forrrebuild if anything
250 degrees is not enough for shock failure. The shock fluids available generally are stable depending on brand and viscosity 300 to 400 degrees.
Larry Roeseler came by my humble trailer a few months ago and I brought up the heat in his trophy truck shocks. He said it is about going as fast as you can while keeping the truck alive. One rough section of whoops he can trash the shocks with ease, so moderation is part of driving these trucks. There are many that are out front early, and go backwards in a hurry due to this very issue. Interesting.
Mostly trashes the shock fluid, the shock will not physically blow, although I have seen that too when abused. But when fluid is gone, damping is too.
Noah and I on the new husky's had an abrupt initial hit we had to put some time into getting rid of. Going with the bladder made a mild improvement but was not how we actually got it fixed. The reason we kept the bladder was because it holds a bit more oil, reducing heat just a tiny bit. Bladder increases maintenance, needing service more often, and is a wear part, but that does not matter on a race bike.
That's a 50mm ID shock. The manufacturers are reducing shock size to 46mm on many of their bikes and some going to a shorter stroke and that hurts.
Alex at Konflict called recently and he is on it. He is doing the detective work and gaining experience on the 790 shock in short order. Alex is getting a bunch of them for repair as he is a WP service center. It will get sorted.
I could go on even about fluids. Had a major fluid manufacturer that was not putting enough lubricity in their fork fluid and I called them. Seals were ripping from dry fork tubes. They stepped up and added more lubricity and sent revised samples and we found the problem resolved. Had to replace a lot of seals for customers on me, due to that fluid. Quite good fluid now. Could there be a fluid issue?
Just make sure if your shock starts leaking you stop riding it as soon as possible. Riding it with the seal head bouncing around in there with lack of nitrogen pressure can easily trash components including the shock body.
Professional MX racer with a standard shock fluid on a motocross bike can wear out the fluid in 7 hours or less.
A high quality synthetic fluid can go to 10 or 20hrs. That is on practice bikes. Race bikes are serviced each race weekend.
What brand(s) of suspension fluid do you like to use?
I use a couple different kinds but in my shock vacuum machine I use Maxima synthetic 3wt. Maxima is a local company started by Ron Lechien's dad, basically at our local track.
Good product, good pricing and right down the street. It was not Maxima that had the lubricity issue by the way.
Was using KYB as they say it is more consistent but the maxima does last longer, works quite well and never noticed any inconsistencies.
Sometimes I will put additives depending on the use or issue.
do you think the seal failure might be from too low nitrogen pressure ?
If so the seal head would sustain some damage probably, and that usually shows as scoring on the inside of the shock body. Guess it is possible but have seen no proof as I have not had one fail.
More blown shocks at the KTM rally call your tuner...
The pro suspension is silly good at 270mm
Hey guys, so anybody know of a brand that does softer spring rates yet? Don’t think WP has any yet
What screen\ headlight is on the bike pictured?
I’ll answer that for nowwhat; it’s the Rebel X. I’m trying to figure out how to bribe him for a test ride on the highway. I want a better windscreen solution to make the buffeting go away. I’d like to try the rebel X, the Rade garage one, etc, until I find one that works. It’s a lot of money to spend without knowing the end result. Judging by his apparent geographical closeness to Rottweiler, I’m about ready to buy an airplane ticket to SoCal if I could talk him into a test ride. If I could find someone with a Rade Garage screen out there to test as well, I’d pack my bags right now.
You should do a Europeans tour then .. Austria to tour KTM, then Rade Garage, over to Italy for ? seat company and Rebel X etc. Hell, ship the bike .. by the time you come home you'll have a really nice seat, pro suspension, your ultimate rally wind screen and more I'm sure.
*best Starsky voice* .. 'dddo it'
OK, here's a suspension update. I've been working with @Torque to develop upgrades to the R suspension that won't break your bank account. George has worked his Top-Secret magic to the Forks, where we went a little softer on the spring rate. This fork eats up desert whoops and rocks like it hasn't eaten for days. We are working on smoothing out the response to the real sharp-edged hits, without giving up it's terrain-munching ability.
The shock is coming along well, too. I've been inside it a few times now, and pounded the snot out of it in desert whoops, and haven't had any hint of the failures that some are reporting. One of the key pieces in the puzzle is a progressive-rate rear spring, which gives a nice initial compliance, then stiffens up as you get deeper into the stroke. Plus, it's a beautiful gold color.
Of course, each new configuration requires extensive testing, but there's always time to take a break and enjoy the scenery.
Keep up the good work @AdvRonski and @Torque !
See those 2 rocks in the foreground? Something tells me they once cantilevered out like the one you're staged on here
Thanks, you two, for all the R&D on the suspension. And kudos on keeping budgetary restraints in mind as you go.
Ron is something else. I just sent him an email. "Ron, when your done you will have one of the best suspended 790's world wide." He rides hard, he works hard, he earns it.