790 forum section?

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by Andy_L, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. dsrtuckteezy

    dsrtuckteezy BLEEDING ORANGE

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    Advrider. Ktm and bmw most popular ADV bikes in the world, therefore get their own sub-forums.

    Quit yalls bitchin'
    #41
  2. koekeroe

    koekeroe Adventurer

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    :lurk
    #42
  3. twinrider

    twinrider Pass the catnip

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    The R1200GS has been at the top for years. The AT did outsell it for a couple years though. KTM gets a lot of hype but they've never sold a lot of adv bikes. Their record sales are coming from all the small bore bikes they manufacture in India.

    Not a KTM hater, I had a 350 EXCF and loved it. Just wondering why the KTM forum is getting even more special treatment than it's already gotten, while all the Japanese adv bikes are all jampacked into one subforum. It should at least have a sub-forum for each of the Big Four makers.
    #43
  4. getonyourbikeandride

    getonyourbikeandride Been here awhile

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    That's an easy question to answer...
    The Japanense do not make a real ADV bike :-)
    #44
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  5. chippertheripper

    chippertheripper motorcycle junkie Supporter

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    Shots fired.
    #45
  6. JETalmage

    JETalmage Been here awhile

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    Straighten it out? Nope. No one can; not by any means practical. Straightening it out would require weeding through all the existing monolithic discussion folders, manually reading all the Comment posts, and grouping them into the separate Discussion Threads they should have been created as in the first place. That would take years.

    It's like the hoarding disorder. All you can do after things reach a certain point of disorder is simply set all the existing mish-mash of grab-bag threads to read-only (i.e., stop the hoarding), archive them somewhere (i.e., take the disorder to the dump), and start over with a sensibly planned forum structure.

    No, the "Orange Koolaid crowd" is appropriately asking for another admin-created Subject to be added at the same level as the other two existing (but stupidly named) Subjects, just as needs to be done for all other Brand_Models. Because the core issue here is not at all constrained to "the Orange Koolaid crowd."

    Requiring visitors to create the "KTM_790" Subject (as they have already done) requires them to completely "use up" (i.e., waste) the ability to create Discussion Threads about the 790. This is the problem that pervades the vast majority of this site.

    Since you are so evidently offended by the KTM brand, let's consider one far removed: Royal Enfield.

    The RE Himalayan is another equally important (albeit for other reasons) new model in the "adventure travel" space. But by being thrown into the stupid "Thumpers" grab-bag just because it's a single-cylinder engine, it gets "bumped down" an entire level of the organizational structure. That effectively requires Himalayan owners to "use up" what should be their ability to create Discussion Threads about the Himalayan just to create a location for any discussion of the Himalayan.

    So ALL Comments about the Himalayan are forced into a SINGLE visitor-created Discussion Thread basically called "Himalayan." That means Himalayan owners can't create separate Discussion Threads within that space; they can only create Comments, because they are already at the rock-bottom level of the drilldown.

    The result is the same as that in the much larger but similarly unstructured KTM 690 threads: Following a cohesive discussion about, say, the Himalayan's brakes is practically impossible, because the individual comments pertaining to that discussion are in the same space as all the individual comments about any other Himalayan discussion.

    It doesn't matter if you're talking about KTMs or Royal Enfields; that's not the way forums are supposed to work.

    This is not the fault of Himalayan owners or 690 owners. It's entirely due to the inconsistent, illogical, and carelessly wasteful structure of this entire forum site.

    If there's an Orange Crush, where's the Green Crush? Or Yellow Crush, Red Crush, and Blue Crush? If a Thumper entry is needed at all (it isn't), what is it doing next to (at the same hierarchical level as) all those "Crushes"? "Thumpers" come in all colors. Is a 690 a KTM or a thumper? Is a Himalayan just a thumper, but not a Royal Enfield?

    By the "logic" of this site, there might as well be a Brakes division right next to Orange Crush and Thumpers, as if neither KTMs nor Thumpers have brakes.

    This is not rocket science. It's common sense instead of reckless abandon.

    JET
    #46
  7. SteadyStare

    SteadyStare Adventurer wannabe

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    This is a lot of quibbling for no reason. The mods have said they are making a new forum already. Is this the best solution possible? Probably not. It's a free to use product created by people donating their time and skills for free. It may not be perfect,I but it's what we have. If you have a solution, send it to the mods. If not, then what's the point of all this?
    #47
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  8. ibgary

    ibgary Long timer

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    A common thread would make it easier to determine what is interchangable between models.
    #48
  9. Goss

    Goss LC8 Adventurer

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    I vote new section under Orange Crush.....

    Call it “Parallel Orange Universe”

    Keeps the BMW guys from thinking you copied them.
    #49
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  10. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    @JETalmage

    Lots of valid points from an analytical view. I agree that finding conversations and information on specific motorcycle models or specific topics concerning riding, routes, trip planning etc can all be a bit tough. Made only tougher by folks injecting off-topic comments into a thread that then take the thread off on a wild tangent. I kind of doubt when this sites format was first conceived the creators envisioned the shear volume of information that would be dumped into it over time. The heading names that you object to are part of the "flavor" of the site IMO. ADVrider is not a sterile and highly moderated Wiki, it's a casual hangout. You will never get a highly organized information repository with 100,000 members posting data in a largely uncontrolled way. You'll never get a site with 100,000 members (or whatever this sites active member count is) posting anything if draconian measures about what can be posted where and how are actively enforced.

    This place is a bit like my garage, a bit disorganized and laid back. Come by, hang out, shoot the breeze, maybe learn something, but plan to spend a bit of time searching for that damn 10mm socket. I'm sure this site does not suit everyone and discussion on ways to make it better are great but they must be doing something right in a lot of peoples eyes, otherwise it would be a ghost town.
    #50
  11. scfrank

    scfrank Old farts riding club. Supporter

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    Actually, it is science. And it grew rather than designed. Hence, the confusion. The real question is, do different models of manufactures bikes deserve their own category? The GS and KTM sections make sense. The clear leaders in volume here on this site. The GS site has boxers vs. parallel twins.
    Why not V-Twins and Parallel twins in the KTM site? Or V-Twins vs P-Twins, vs thumpers?

    To appease the 990/950 guys who are more hardcore offroad than the 1290/1190 group let them keep the existing group.


    Just make a category for Parallel Twins in Orange Crush then the new 890 P-Twin can go there.
    #51
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  12. JETalmage

    JETalmage Been here awhile

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    Okay, so how does that explain the fact that anything and everything anyone wants to discuss about a KTM 690 gets thrown into a couple of user-created "threads" external to the the whole KTM-specific section?

    A logically consistent organizational theme can accommodate more generalization for subjects of smaller volume and (to windblown101's argument) does not preclude stylistic "mood" or "style."

    It just requires some sensible planning and logical consistency. It requires putting a little common-sense thought into an organizational scheme that doesn't effectively ask, for example, whether a 690 is a KTM OR a single cylinder four-stroke--and then require the visitors to waste their ability to start a discussion on the creation of a place for their discussion at the very same organizational level as a Royal Enfield Himalayan.

    That's what causes all discussions on KTM 690s, or all discussions on Royal Enfield Himalayans, or all discussions on Kawasaki KLR650s, fercryinoutloud, to have to be thrown into completely disorganized grab-bags devoid of any organization whatsoever necessary for anyone to actually follow a discussion.

    JET
    #52
  13. chippertheripper

    chippertheripper motorcycle junkie Supporter

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    I’m not arguing for or against multiple forums or lack thereof, but you can search in a thread as soon as you’ve entered it for any topic with the function this forum provides if’n you feel like you’re about to ask something that has already been covered.
    And discuss as you see fit, just like you’re doing here.
    #53
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  14. JETalmage

    JETalmage Been here awhile

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    I know how a search feature works.

    No, in the problematic areas I used as examples, you can search for a text string in comments that are all thrown together in a single blunderbuss SUBJECT, not within discussion thread titles, because those don't exit. What should be the discussion threads level has been effectively and uselessly "used up" by whoever had to use it to create the unprovided overall SUBJECT (e.g., "690") section.

    So yeah, you can search for any mention of "brakes" within the single "thread" that also contains everyone's comments on every other topic about the 690. Going to one does not result in a contiguous discussion that you can follow about brakes, because those comments are interspersed with comments on everything else.

    No, that is not at all like we are doing here! Here, the reason you are able to follow this discussion is because it resides AS IT SHOULD in a single user-created discussion titled
    "790 forum section?" within a site provided KTM-specific Subject titled "Crazy Awesome, [blah blah blah]".

    That's exactly what you cannot do in the vast majority of sections like Thumpers, because it is up to the users to create what should be the site provided brand-model-specific sections!

    Why is this so hard to understand? You cannot, for example, go into one of the monolithic KTM 690 catch-all threads and create a discrete discussion titled "690 SMC Forum Section?" because that level of drilldown is what is occupied by "New and Improved KTM 690...". As soon as you enter that level, you are at the rock bottom level of user-defined organization. So anything and everything you want to discuss about a 690 is at the rock-bottom level of individual comments.

    Again: You don't have that limitation or its random grab-bag of unrelated comments here, because someone was able to create a proper separate disussion thread specifically about the need for a new next level up site-provided section for the 790.

    JET
    #54
  15. Dirt2007

    Dirt2007 Long timer Supporter

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    Wow. I have been on AdvRider for over 12 years and never realized it was as awful as you've described. Guess I'm doing it wrong.
    #55
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  16. CaseyB

    CaseyB Adventually Supporter

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    The site is awesome and he also has a legitimate point. It’s a discussion. I’m happy to see multiple threads of different/specific topics already occurring w the unicorn

    I’d also be willing to wager that JETS house is very clean and he is a good person to buy a used car from. I have nothing else of value to add and will now go back to the corner
    #56
  17. Sfcootz

    Sfcootz fap:hoon Super Moderator Super Supporter

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    Aw yeah!!!! We have our own subforum!!!! :wings
    #57
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  18. Baldy

    Baldy Founder of ADV Administrator

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    I've read your posts several times and there is some good stuff there. I'm having trouble following all of it, but that could be me.

    I think what happened is I named the site Adventure Rider before BMW and KTM named their bikes Adventure. Only BMW had what I thought of as an adventure bike so we only had a BMW-branded sub. When KTM came out with a model named Adventure, we added that. Thumpers were considered enduro bikes.

    We were small and liked our inside jokes, calling KTM Orange Crush, but now that we serve millions coming in from Google every month and they don't get our inside jokes we're going to have to get clearer about naming. I changed the KTM forums today to say KTM 1090/1190/1290, KTM 950/990, and KTM 790/890. Everyone I checked with wanted to stick with Orange Crush as the umbrella name. From what I can tell, the KTM Adventure crowd is happy with the org of those three subs, no?

    Two things pain me: (1) we stand for Adventure Riding and now a lot of brands make great Adventure bikes like Ducati and Yamaha. (2) I simply can't understand why such devotion to all bikes thrown in together under thumpers, with model-specific threads. The reason they give me is Thumper Talk is a nightmare trying to find a sub for each model.

    If I were a n00b coming into ADV and I wasn't sure whether I wanted a KTM 690 or 790, I'd have a tough time figuring that out.

    Anyway, the thumper issue is a hairball because there are so many fierce opinions, so many brands and so many models. But we need to figure it out.
    #58
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  19. braaap!

    braaap! Long timer Supporter

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    YES :)
    #59
  20. braaap!

    braaap! Long timer Supporter

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    Maybe it might pay that certain header threads are created within the new room rather than the usual errant mishmash.... ie.


    790S / R:

    The FAQ (thanks [Art]
    Modifications ( stickers, plastics, luggage, windscreens, cup holders etc...)
    Suspension
    Exhausts
    DeCat solutions and debacles..
    OEM failures... Cooked rear suspension, leaking coolant, dribble countershaft seal / F Brake master cylinder etc.
    Tyres...
    What oil should I use / not use.
    790Adv pics
    What did my 790 do to me today...
    What did I do to my 790 today
    Oops, my 790 has developed a khairball ( idiosyncratic problems or issues)...
    Mechanical issue...I need help / advice.
    Electrickery... Problem, I need advice / help.
    How do I sell my soul (children / kidney) to afford a 790 R Rallye?
    Other...
    #60