790 Reported Clutch failures - My 12k mile examination

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by windblown101, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. SoilSampleDave

    SoilSampleDave Dr. Zaius was right!

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    Thanks for the update. What about springs? No change?
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  2. 990s

    990s Been here awhile

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    Do the 890 Duke engine have the upgraded clutch?
    If not, it is a kind of admission of an inadequate clutch design imho.
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  3. Dan D.

    Dan D. Been here awhile

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    I've pretty much accepted, short of an engine failure, I'm pretty much on my own for all repairs on ktm bikes. I don't even bother filing warranty claims...

    Life's too short to sweat the small stuff.

    Cost of ownership.
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  4. Toddv

    Toddv Long timer

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    I'm betting the new plates are steel istead of aluminum with possibly some other adjustments.
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  5. AdamM001

    AdamM001 Been here awhile

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    That quote was their direct reply; so apparently only the FRICTION plates are different. (Probably fatter and a different compound).

    I was curious about the springs as well.
    I wouldn’t be surprised though if they’d changed them to a thicker/stiffer steel of same height and just revised under the same part #, sneaky-like...
  6. AdamM001

    AdamM001 Been here awhile

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    Sorry: I guess I originally didn’t include the full quote (thought I had).
    Here is the relevant bit:

    “For your question;

    -Can the new 890 clutch upgrades be retrofitted to the 790?

    Yes for the clutch pack (friction disc) but this is the only updated clutch components on the 890 vs the 790

    This part has been updated and one of the reason is to better fit for the new power output of the 890 engine

    KTM as a manufacturer is updating components regularly on all the models and this part of the process improvement year after year, similar to others industries like the car sector

    -If not; are there any other learnings from the new clutch design that can be applied?

    Every specs are the same on the 890 except for the friction plates change”
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  7. kirill_k

    kirill_k n00b

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    890 Duke R clutch disk pack is the same pn 63532011010 as for 790 Adventure R.
    While 890 ADVENTURE R has a different disk pack pn 63632011010. Springs and all the rest seem to be the same including a 0,3mm oil-jet.
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  8. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

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    what friction plate is that? Doesn’t look like OEM?
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  9. BHoward

    BHoward Been here awhile Supporter

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    It is a Rekluse auto clutch.
  10. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

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    I’ve read this thread from start to finish. After you sift through all the bullshit, it still seems that there are no definitive causes for clutch failure.

    Recently I saw the note about the bearing being cooked. I wonder if the bearing is bad on the select number of units that failed? Bearing lock up or grab could cause early slip, no?

    My clutch started giving me trouble after a gnarly uphill, Rocky and steep trail on the NEBDR in VT.

    Stopped, let it cool, free play went from plenty to zero during this climb. I adjusted it immediately, to roughly 5mm at the perch end of the clutch lever.

    Bike was fine for another 600 miles that weekend. Checked free play daily.

    Started PA wilds 700 last weekend with no issues, with perfect free play. Actuator adjusted to 90 degrees per repair manual etc...rode 200 miles of dirt roads and blacktop at a brisk pace. (think 50,60,70,80 MPH) on stone roads. Rally throttle, slip set to 3. No issues. No indication of slip.

    Day 2: rainy and cold. Set slip up to 5/6 to adresss wet roads and mud on forest roads. Road 40 miles and clutch started slipping badly. Couldn’t give myself anymore free play.

    I’m now well over 100 miles from my truck. I decide I have to head back towards truck, knowing my clutch is toast.

    Nursed it as far as I could at low RPMs until the clutch was done.

    This clutch only has 1200 miles on it....since I know a handful will say it’s clutch abuse, I have this to offer. I’ve been riding off-road for 41 years, on road for 29 years, dirtbikes, quads, snowmobiles.

    I have logged well over 100,000 miles off-road. Raced enduros, GNCC’s, hare scrambles, and ridden many dual sports and multi day rallies. I ride hard.

    I pulled cover, clutch is toast. I’ll post pics after dealer reviews. It is however, very dry in there. Lots of friction material in basket, but no scoring that I can see and no fragged steels.

    There is definitely a handful of bikes with problem clutches. Maybe a bad batch of discs or a bad batch of bearings, or a bad batch of springs. Mine are way under spec....2@41.275mm.

    There seems to be plenty out there with no issues.

    I’m working with my dealer to try to get it dialed in 100%. Next trip I will pack a clutch pack and springs.

    Fortunately I was able to save my 4 day trip by getting back to truck and swapping out to the 990r...
  11. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

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    Anyone on here that says you’re not supposed to slip the clutch off road should watch Birch. This is the 890, but same machine basically. You’re not riding slow wheelies without some clutch dump and slip.

    You can also see the slip at slow uphill turns etc...you’re also not riding technical uphills without some slip. Watch the video and listen to the rpms... I don’t care how good you are some clutch slip is required and normal operation off road.
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  12. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

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    Also at 9:40 +/- birch alludes to the fact that there were some problems with the 790 clutch...

    Just passing it along for the naysayers. And BTW, I am a KTM fanboy. Been riding nothing non KTM for 17 years...
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  13. SoilSampleDave

    SoilSampleDave Dr. Zaius was right!

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    He more than alludes, he flat out says it and that there may be some options coming from KTM regarding clutches. You’ve raised a very good point about the possibility of a bunch of bikes shipping out with under-spec springs. I probably should measure mine.
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  14. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    Mine were under spec as mentioned way back somewhere in the first couple of pages of this thread. I proactively swapped to the Recluse Torque drive. However the springs that come with that kit are even lighter than the OEM springs and the folks at Rekluse recommended I not use the stronger OEM springs so I'm not sure the springs were the heart of the issue.

    8k miles now on the Rekluse. Still going strong.

    121672455_3363597757028724_9150356862264266731_o.jpg
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  15. SoilSampleDave

    SoilSampleDave Dr. Zaius was right!

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    True, but the plates are different, so it's not really apples-apples.
  16. 990s

    990s Been here awhile

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    What ? Still not the perfect bike?:johntm He stalls it at about 5:50:muutt
  17. offroadjunky

    offroadjunky Been here awhile

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    Pretty sure every bike can stall from time to time, no such thing as perfect.
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  18. Mud Bucket

    Mud Bucket 60% of the time I'm right every time

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    This arrived for me today from Barnett. Shipped to Canada under a week while I am still waiting for my OEM springs to arrive (Over a month). Can't wait to compare all the springs once the OEM one arrive
    [​IMG]
  19. AdvRonski

    AdvRonski They call me......Ronski

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    The Barnett springs are 10% stiffer than the stock springs. So, a slightly heavier pull at the lever, but not an issue with the Camel arm.
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  20. AdvRonski

    AdvRonski They call me......Ronski

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    Sorry, but I don't agree with any of your conclusions. It sounds like you slipped the clutch enough to overheat it and glaze the discs, then failed to notice more slippage until it was gone. And, how can you not get any more free play? The release bearing does not cause a clutch failure, rather the overheating clutch damages the bearing, and the springs as well. I've seen many clutches get hot enough to turn the steel discs blue, which happens around 600 degrees F. At those temps, you're burning up the oil and glazing the friction discs. As for you riding and racing experience, I've raced with many guys over a longer period than that, and seen some who never seem to learn how to manage their equipment, so I would say that decades of experience aren't a factor here.
    Also, 5mm of free play at the end of the clutch lever is about half of what I run, and just doesn't allow much room for wear. And, any time you slip the clutch under power for more than a couple of seconds, you're doing something wrong. Just enough to get moving, then let the TC take it from there. Using Rally throttle mode in conditions where slipping is required is a poor choice, Street or Offroad make managing sketchy traction much easier.
    Finally, none of us here are Chris Birch, so his techniques won't yield the same results most of the time. I'm sure he's very good at knowing how much abuse of his equipment he can get away with, because that's his job. Riding hard doesn't have to mean beating the bike up.