790 Reported Clutch failures - My 12k mile examination

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by windblown101, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    558
    Location:
    Kintnersville, PA
    And that’s the beauty of free speech. You can have your opinion. I know when a clutch is slipping.

    5mm at the perch end, not at the lever end.

    It’s at the dealer now. We’ll see what they say about it.

    Does the heat cause the Springs to shrink? (2) were 41.275 when I measured them. One was 42.625.

    I didn’t bother measuring the pack because the friction material is all stuck to the basket.

    This is my 11th or 12th KTM since 2003. Live the brand. Love the bikes. Some of them have problems. No clutch should fail in 1200 miles unless it’s slipping the entire time it’s been ridden.

    This is only the 2nd weekend the bike was ridden after break in service on its 2nd engine.

    Hope your machine continues to be problem free as many of my other machines have been.
    Quercus petraea likes this.
  2. BHoward

    BHoward Been here awhile Supporter

    Joined:
    May 5, 2014
    Oddometer:
    692
    Location:
    Dallas, TX.
    Once again, Ron is on point.
    Some guys just like to ride a 790 Adv bike like a 500 dirt bike slipping the clutch like mad, all the while thinking Chris Birch can do it, so can I.
    Lol.
    Just because 10 guys burnt up there clutch out of the thousands 790's produced doesn't mean it's a KTM issue, more than likely its a rider issue.

    Kinda like a individual issue when someone asks a question to a specific person, then the person replys, then doesn't even say thanks or like the reply or tells him to kiss his ass or nothing.
    Lol
  3. SoilSampleDave

    SoilSampleDave Dr. Zaius was right!

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Oddometer:
    10,427
    Location:
    The Delta Ghetto, GA (aka PTC)
    I don’t care which side of the debate you fall on, the clutch is not up to KTM standards.
    Oeths, Orfeas, Toddv and 1 other person like this.
  4. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    558
    Location:
    Kintnersville, PA
    On the other hand, why is it so hard to accept that maybe there was some manufacturing tolerance inconsistencies? Maybe a few bad clutch packs, maybe a few bad springs.

    Of course Everyone on ADVrider is an expert in all things motorcycle. And guys that have a failure don’t know how to use their machines properly.

    My other Current KTM is 2012 990R. 18,000 miles ridden hard and put away wet. I don’t even use the clutch on that bike unless I’m pulling out or in town.

    An ADV Bike that is marketed as the most off-road capable adv bike on the market, ought to be just that. If I want to take it the same places I’d take a 500, it should be able to handle that’s how it was marketed.
  5. offroadjunky

    offroadjunky Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2016
    Oddometer:
    220
    Location:
    Kelowna,Canada
    Marketing of any kind of product is to get the consumer to purchase it, in the end it is almost twice the weight of a 500 dirt bike.I'm not saying there aren't some possible bad clutches out there but the rider does have to use some common sense even if KTM may say it is a race ready product.
  6. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    558
    Location:
    Kintnersville, PA
    Agreed. 98% of what my machine was ridden on is forest roads. Nothing overly technical on a big bike.
  7. Orfeas

    Orfeas Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Oddometer:
    263
    It’s funny to see some people going personal with this matter, as if they have KTM stocks or they are working for KTM. From manufacturer’s point of view, it’s really convenient to think that failures are 100% rider’s fault but sometimes it’s not the case.
  8. offroadjunky

    offroadjunky Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2016
    Oddometer:
    220
    Location:
    Kelowna,Canada
    Goes both ways, lots of people slamming KTM when they have the smallest issue like no other manufacturer ever had problems.I don't think that the clutch issues are 100% riders fault guessing there may possibly be updated parts coming.I do know that the my 790 will not do all the things my 300 will without some issues down the line even if the manufacturer says that it is capable.
    RB450 and BHoward like this.
  9. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    558
    Location:
    Kintnersville, PA
    Agreed. And I never slammed KTM. I’ve had other KTMs with zero issue, and some with major issues. Broken Valve rockers on a 2009 690R 150 miles into an 800 mile weekend in Canada. Ordered rockers, installed, and rode the bike another 3000 miles before I sold it.

    I love the 790, I just want to get the bike dialed in, and reliable for a 1000 mile trip. I’m not riding 5 minutes from home.
  10. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    558
    Location:
    Kintnersville, PA
    just wanted to tap into your clutch expertise...you never commented on the fact the all 3 of my clutch springs were under spec with less than 1200 miles on the engine...

    (2) at 41.275 and (1) @ 42.675. Minimum tolerance per service manual is 43MM. What are your thoughts on the springs?

    Insignificant?

    Not enough pressure to keep clutch fully engaged/disengaged? Please enlighten me.

    Thanks,’
  11. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,952
    Location:
    Star Tannery, VA
    If you want it get it. Keep any eye on clutch freeplay down at the lever on the motor. If you want extra assurance maybe pick up an 890 clutch pack or a Rekluse Torqdrive clutch pack. Gear the bike appropriately for the riding you do so you dont find yourself constantly slipping the clutch and otherwise ride it like you stole it.

    All this just my just my opinion of course.
    roookie1, BHoward and RB450 like this.
  12. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    558
    Location:
    Kintnersville, PA
    890 clutch pack will be packed as a spare as soon as I can get one. Springs as well...
    kirill_k likes this.
  13. AdvRonski

    AdvRonski They call me......Ronski

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,563
    Location:
    Finally made it to Fruita!
    Not really sure if this is more sarcasm, but I'll take it at face value and offer my opinion as a 40+ year Master Tech. For the kind of damage that appears to have happened to the clutch pack, some very high temps were reached from extended slippage. Those kind of temps will change the temper of springs, and allow them to sack, or shrink in length. I would recommend the Barnett springs, being slightly stiffer, but I never had any issues with the stock springs, either.
  14. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,952
    Location:
    Star Tannery, VA
    Spare clutch pack is a lot to carry and protect from damage. Ride the bike local hard. Inspect clutch. Go on tour ride.
  15. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    558
    Location:
    Kintnersville, PA

    Really not trying to be too sarcastic...but you make that a little difficult.

    I appreciate face value master tech views and support. However, you cannot presume every clutch failure is operator error....

    The Barnett Springs are something I’m considering, but working with my dealer and KTM. They know me, know how I Ride, have worked on several of my machines, and sponsor events locally.

    The only clutch I’ve smoked in the last 41 years was that of a 2001 Yamaha Raptor 660. (Which I let many people
    Ride). You can look the issues with that machine’s clutch up.

    I come here only to learn as much as I can about whichever bike I happen to be riding at the time. I have no gripe with KTM or anyone on here.

    I need to make my machines reliable enough for 800 to 1000 miles over the course of 3 or 4 days. Not world travel, but far enough that I really don’t want to ruin a 4 day weekend without a backup plan.

    So....I appreciate constructive advice to make my machine reliable, and if I need to slightly alter my riding style to adapt to MTC fine, But this clutch would have failed if I had MTC off.

    Throttle in Rally is nothing, coming from a 990R with no MTC/ABS Or throttle cam. The 990R has 120 +/- HP compared to the 790....

    Not tying to be a dick or indicate I’m the worlds greatest rider....just trying to get my machine Dialed in!
    AdamM001 and Mud Bucket like this.
  16. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    558
    Location:
    Kintnersville, PA
    I’ve done that....still failed. I know of 2 burnt clutches in the same weekend, one was a rekluse...it’s an oil issue. Opinion only.

    It doesn’t take up too much space in a tail bag... and if it buys you two more days on a 1000 mile trip, then it’s worth the space...
  17. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

    Joined:
    May 17, 2010
    Oddometer:
    6,952
    Location:
    Star Tannery, VA
    I ran 5200 miles and spent 2 days running with 5 other 790 owners in Death Valley. I broke some stuff, but the clutch wasn't one of them. No one else had a clutch failure either. Could it be an oil be the issue or a variance in production causing some to fail and tother not to? Sure, I reckon it could be. That's why I recommended running it hard, checking it, and if no signs of trouble are showing up forget about it.

    Carrying an extra clutch pack is certainly an option. Hell, I might need one before this current trip is over, one never knows for certain. But if I felt it was high risk to run across the country without a spare clutch pack on a 790 I'd be riding different bike.

    What I really needed was a spare tire. I didn't carry one of those with me either.
    20201025_193526.jpg
    CaseyB and BHoward like this.
  18. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    558
    Location:
    Kintnersville, PA

    Yep. There were at least 10 790’s on the same ride, as far as I know, mine is the only full failure.

    My buddy’s rekluse shit the bed, and we put his stock back in the hotel parking lot. Rekluse was black as night, burnt and dry.

    His Stock clutch was fine for another 500 miles.

    I truly believe this is an oiling issue, or spring issue.
    Mud Bucket likes this.
  19. SoilSampleDave

    SoilSampleDave Dr. Zaius was right!

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Oddometer:
    10,427
    Location:
    The Delta Ghetto, GA (aka PTC)
    I am assuming that your friend had not changed to an 0.5mm oil jet and keep the oil level all the way to the top of the sight glass?
    kirill_k likes this.
  20. RB450

    RB450 Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Oddometer:
    558
    Location:
    Kintnersville, PA
    Correct assumption. Neither did I.