790 Reported Clutch failures - My 12k mile examination

Discussion in 'Parallel World (790/890)' started by windblown101, Nov 10, 2019.

  1. Toddv

    Toddv Been here awhile

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    Exactly why I want stiffer springs. I have done some checking to see where the threshold is on the slipper but it seems to be a decent amount higher than the engine braking. The engine braking on this nikenis fairly weak. I read because the Euro 5 emmisions strategy doesn't close the throttle plates very tight on decel. Something a real tune could no doubt fix but the springs would need to be stout enough to deal with it.
    #81
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  2. kubcat

    kubcat Been here awhile Supporter

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    #82
  3. justinope

    justinope Long timer

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    Thanks for that heads up! I was following that adventure previously, but hadn't checked recently.

    I called KTM again just now and apparently since his was out of spec that was why they were able to cover it. Since they were unable to find anything out of spec on mine, they weren't allowed to cover any of my repairs, even though I still contend my oil jet was out of spec even if it was only "slightly"

    I guess I should have purposely thrown my free play way out of spec before bringing it in to the dealer? I definitely recommend anyone with a legitimate issue do that going forward, might give you some chance at least.. Figures that'd be my luck, screwed by my own pre-ride checks

    Asked them again while I had them on the phone for a good faith repair since I've bought 4 or 5 KTM / Husky bikes now in my ~8 years of riding, but was promptly told to go pound sand (again).
    #83
  4. SoilSampleDave

    SoilSampleDave Dr. Zaius was right!

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    I am assuming it was because the bike was so new that they could reasonably assume it was misadjusted by the delivering dealer.
    #84
  5. sailnbike

    sailnbike Adventurer

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    Could you tell me how to actually remove the jet. I can see what looks like grooves for a flat head screw driver but nothing else. I can see that it is marked 30 per spec.
    #85
  6. windblown101

    windblown101 Long timer Supporter

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    It's pretty tight. A proper sized flat head will break it free. I would suggest a machinist type flathead because a standard flathead may bugger it up. It's a high risk/low reward procedure without the right tool for the job. If you don't think there is a problem with it I'd say leave it be. But that's just my 2 cents.
    #86
  7. sailnbike

    sailnbike Adventurer

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    Thank you so much. There is lots of oil on the clutch so I will take your sage advice and leave well enough alone.
    #87
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  8. MN rider

    MN rider Adventurer

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    What's the outer diameter of the pressure plate on the 790? In the video earlier in this thread it looks fairly small compared to other bikes I've had apart. Could it just be somewhat underclutched for knobby tires and off road use. For comparison, does anyone know what diameter of the 1090 is aswell.
    #88
  9. Toddv

    Toddv Been here awhile

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    It does look smaller than most and also uses aluminum friction plates so I'm guessing it's reduced size is mainly for rotational weight reduction, it does rev quickly! It being a ramped slipper clutch multiplies the grip of the clutch but having less mass also allows things to heat up quicker and the smaller diameter reduces the mechanical advantage the clutch has so it has to work harder to do the same work as another clutch of similar design that's larger. Always a trade off...
    #89
  10. MN rider

    MN rider Adventurer

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    Hopefully the aftermarket will develop a full kit with clutch plates and discs, a new pressure plate and springs in the near future. I personally would prefer to not have a power assist slipper clutch on this type of bike. Even at the cost of a heavy clutch lever pull which I think can be worked around. Rekluse has an interesting option in the torq drive with adding more plates and discs, but they must be thinner overall to accomplish this and therefore may or may not be more fragile, and $450 usd is expensive for what you get. Just my opinion. I'm also awaiting the parts schematic for the 890 motor to compare the differences.
    #90
  11. justinope

    justinope Long timer

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    Rekluse disc construction is much more robust, steel core vs aluminum AFAIK

    Unrelated anecdote- I work in a customer facing role at a somewhat popular e-commerce company where I have now shared my unfortunate 790 Adventure ownership experience with ~4-5 other inquiring riders, who were all taken aback by KTM's lack of assistance given my / other riders circumstances.

    It's still hard for me to believe KTM's response to these issues when every day at my company my rock star co-workers and I bend over backwards to help fellow riders / customers, even if it's not our mistake. KTM warps the concept of "customer service" so extremely far in the other direction that they end up somehow bending their customers over instead :confused I have to imagine its a net loss for them to treat their customers so poorly in the long run.
    #91
  12. Venturer

    Venturer AKA klakeman Supporter

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    I am curious. Is the 790 clutch failing in more than a couple of isolated instances? I have over 3k miles on my 790R with fairly rigorous use and the clutch seems absolutely fine.
    #92
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  13. [Art]

    [Art] Been here awhile

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    Since I published the article in the FAQ I received a couple more reports, both due to the clutch guard not being set properly, leading to failures at very low mileage (750 and 1200 kms). I truly believe there is no issue here, it's dealer not setting the guard properly on delivery or riders abusing the clutch. Or both. Failure due to oil starvation is possible but probably not more than 2 or 3 bikes worldwide.
    #93
  14. SoilSampleDave

    SoilSampleDave Dr. Zaius was right!

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    Yeah, I think KTM spoiled us (and dealer techs too) with hydraulic clutch actuation that doesn’t need free play adjustment. I will also repeat again that dropping a tooth on the front sprocket to reduce the need for clutch slipping is a no-brainer if you do any single track.
    #94
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  15. justinope

    justinope Long timer

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    The worst part of the problem IMO is that it can feel like its operating OK all the way up until the problem, so feel doesn't necessarily tell the whole story. My tell was the heat coming from the engine more than clutch feel. My advice is for everyone to check their plates every 3-5k miles so that if you have whatever the issue is it doesn't grenade like what happened to Bill Cairns and others.

    With all due respect, your FAQ isn't the end all be all. Reports on FB groups, etc are sitting in the 50-100 bikes range via polling, etc. Multiply that by 2-3x for the people who probably have had similar issues but don't frequent social media to talk about it publicly.

    I really wish it was due to my bad riding, at least then I could feel like I got my money's worth out of it (like that gear dude who does builds at KTMtwins for example) but nope- just commuting and explorer's pace two track.. I can kinda see your POV though, until it happens to you it is easy to think KTM is infallible here but it is somewhat narrow-minded. Maybe it was just a bad batch of disc's, maybe its something bigger, but unlikely we'll ever know either way.

    The real test will be me checking up on it again around 3-4k miles after the repair is finally complete to see how the discs look. Who knows when that'll be though since my bike has been in the shop about 2 months now with KTM NA prodding and subsequently doing nothing (not even covering the diag fee with my dealer). May just sell it once its fixed, definitely not a fan of this ownership experience at all.
    #95
  16. kubcat

    kubcat Been here awhile Supporter

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    I have not seen these polls you speak of. Can you provide a link please?
    #96
  17. offroadjunky

    offroadjunky Been here awhile

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    Please take what you see on facebook with a grain of salt.
    #97
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  18. justinope

    justinope Long timer

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    There was a poll available on the biggest group before and a decent amount of comments attached to it a while back, I'll try to dig it up tonight when I get home- on work PC now and searching via mobile app sucks lol

    Also, I totally agree with a grain of salt above, but I also would say a good amount of riders aren't on social media or if they are don't participate in the groups / discussions.
    #98
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  19. Toddv

    Toddv Been here awhile

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    Yes and to say that the number is 3x the failures reported is not likely, when things go wrong it's the people with issues that are more vocal than those who haven't. I also doubt that 50 clutch failures have happened, if so why haven't those folks said anything to anyone about it other than a vote in a poll? I know some folks are not happy but there's no reason to make a bigger deal out of it than it is. Good data is the best way to put an issue into perspective.
    #99
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  20. [Art]

    [Art] Been here awhile

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    I’m an admin on the group where the poll was done. I’ve seen the results. And they are like all other facebook polls. baloney.

    I’’m sorry of what happened to you, yes yours can be one in the starving oil category, but still the story you presented is incomplete. For example you mentioned at some point that the dealer told you that the hole in the clutch was undersized, (.2mm instead of .3mm, if I recall properly). This was interpreted by some “KTM put the wrong part in”. I seriously doubt that the wrong part went in. Was the part defective? Of was the hole plugged by some stuff circulating with the oil? And if it is from the oil it probably came from the clutch that burned in the first place. So what came first? The plugged hole or the burned clutch? Or a faulty part?

    The issue here is that we are trying to do armchair diagnostics from partial information. And only from one side. I’d like to read the mechanic report on your bike, the one he communicated to KTM for warrantee. If the problem was the wrong part or a faulty part I’m with you, this needs KTM to have take everything under warrantee. But I’ve seen no mention of wrong part or defective part anywhere.

    On the other side I read multiple cases of badly adjusted cables, some from initial delivery…
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